Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

solarvic
solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
I just got an email from Wholesale Solar that Kyocera is limiting in USA its solar to comercial projects and very high volume intergrators. The rest of us will be left out. They said that some people that have projects planned will have to shift to other brands. Anyone else heard this yet? S:Dlarvic

Comments

  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

    Hi solarvic,

    Bummer ! Have been teetering on the verge of ordering some Kyo 210's from the host of this site. This would not be good news, as it might raise the prices of other panels ...

    Thanks for the query. another Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

    There are other brands that are probably just as good. If I wanted the Kyocera panels I would try to get as many as I wanted to make sure I could complete the array I planned. If this is the truth I would think that the current supply will sell out fast. S:Dlarvic
  • joeaksa
    joeaksa Solar Expert Posts: 39
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

    Sad to see it happen.

    A question along this subject.

    Any rule of thumb about mixing panels between makers?

    As long as they are close to the same amp and voltage have thought that they could be mixed but never tried it.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,398 admin
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

    Basically, a good set of rules of thumb... Match parallel strings (one or more panels) Vmp to within 10%. And for series strings, match panels within 10%---Follow those rules, and you should be able to mix and match panels without problems.

    If you are paralleling panels on a PWM controller--Them Vmp should be >=~Vbatt-charging+2volts ... Any higher Vmp panels can be added (within the limits of controller input voltage/current) with the warning the higher Vmp is, the more losses that the PWM setup will lose (Vmp = 34 volts on a "12 volt" battery bank, will lose roughly 50% of the Vmp=34v panel's rated wattage).

    However, depending on voltage, current, and the number of panels/charge controllers you have--it can be very difficult to mix and match panels with wildly different Vmp/Imp ratings... Many times, it is simply easier to get a second charge controller and set the new panels up on that controller (PWM or MPPT as desired).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • joeaksa
    joeaksa Solar Expert Posts: 39
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

    Bill,

    Thanks and just came along some 75 watt panels for a good price. They are very close to the specs on my existing 80 watt panels and thought about tying them all together.

    Same thing that some of the Kyocera owners may be facing.

    Joe
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

    i wouldn't go off the handle yet with that news unless you can get it confirmed from other sources. this could hurt kyocera if it turns out to be false as many may switch to brands they would feel would still be around in planning their systems for. why would somebody feed false info (not implying you solarvic) as i can speculate a few possible reasons off the top of my head. kyocera's reputation and volume of business in the usa has been good and i do hope that this news turns out to be false. so far i have not found this report anywhere else other than wholesale solar in trying to confirm it.

    edit to add update:
    all i have found on kyocera so far has been this from kyocera "Kyocera will also meet strong demand in the solar energy business through expanded production capacity and sales channels."
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/kyocera-announces-consolidated-financial-results-for-year-ended-march-31-2010-2010-04-27?reflink=MW_news_stmp
    nobody else is carrying the same news as wholesale solar indicates. expanded does not sound like cutting the individual sales out in the usa and i wonder if something's possibly up between kyocera and wholesale solar.:confused:
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore
    BB. wrote: »
    If you are paralleling panels on a PWM controller--Them Vmp should be >=~Vbatt-charging+2volts ... Any higher Vmp panels can be added (within the limits of controller input voltage/current) with the warning the higher Vmp is, the more losses that the PWM setup will lose (Vmp = 34 volts on a "12 volt" battery bank, will lose roughly 50% of the Vmp=34v panel's rated wattage).

    I think your using the nominal voltage when you suggest losses of 50%.

    Charging voltage for a 24 volt system would be 28+ so 28/34=@80%, less for starting and finishing but not near the 50% mark..
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

    Niel. I have 16 kyocera Kc 158g panels that all look like new and are the olderst ones I have. The quality is good and they will probably be still working way after I die. Got 12 sharps later and 2 of them don,t look like new anymore. I wouldn,t start a rumor but like you said there could be a problem between wholesale solar and kyocera. Last night I checked about 15 websites I have on my favorites list and a lot of them didn,t have any Kyocera panels listed or if they did they just had a small selection. I hope Kyocera didn,t take the GE aproach that they are big enough that they don,t need to want to deal with the small potato,s people with residential systems anymore. S:Dlarvic
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,398 admin
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore
    Photowhit wrote: »
    I think your using the nominal voltage when you suggest losses of 50%.

    Charging voltage for a 24 volt system would be 28+ so 28/34=@80%, less for starting and finishing but not near the 50% mark..

    I was answering a "generic question" so I was comparing a "worst case/bad case" "generic 24 volt panel" on a "12 volt battery bank" with a PWM controller:
    • 14.4 volts charging / 17.5 volt Vmp panel = 0.82 charging eff.
    • 14.4 volts charging / 35 volt Vmp panel = 0.41 charging eff.
    There was no controller/panel panel information provided--So I was trying to make an example of a question that we frequently get around here ("24 volt panel" on 12 volt battery bank with a PWM controller).

    And we get the confusion of a "24 volt volt panel" and Voc vs Vmp ratings (a "24 volt panel" for a battery bank should have Vmp somewhere around 32-35 volts for proper charging of a 24 volt battery bank).

    Given the complexities of people's setups and the options in panels, controllers, battery bank voltages, local weather conditions--I usually suggest people ask about their system instead of generic questions--Because it becomes very difficult to write (and read) the generic answers with all of the caveats thrown in.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

    Sorry, I misread...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • bobdog
    bobdog Solar Expert Posts: 192 ✭✭
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore
    solarvic wrote: »
    I just got an email from Wholesale Solar that Kyocera is limiting in USA its solar to comercial projects and very high volume intergrators. The rest of us will be left out. They said that some people that have projects planned will have to shift to other brands. Anyone else heard this yet? S:Dlarvic

    Maybe our gracious host can answer this? NAWS?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,398 admin
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

    Windsun (NAWS/Admin) has been working hard back at the shop and has not been able to spend as much time here as he would like...

    So, it may be a while before he can respond.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Kyocera doesn.t want us anymore

    Have been watching the $ on the Kyo 210 LPU at NAZW&S, as of this afternoon, seems the 20+ price has disappeared, and the Q1 price X 20 units yields about $1000-$1100 price increase in a lot of 20 ea, so there is quite possibly SOMETHING ot that "rumor".

    EDIT: And just now noticed that the Q20 price on SolarWorld 230's is missing and they, too, seem to have increased in price by about 50-or-so $$ per panel. Probably like rising interest rates, when the rise starts, brings folks out of the woodwork.

    Just one (or so) 'data point' or perhaps none at all. May have missed the price ebb.

    Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.