480V and Battery Backup

Are there any battery backup systems designed for 480V service?

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,984 admin
    Re: 480V and Battery Backup

    In terms of solar PV backup, not that I have heard of...

    But the other 1/2 of the question is what is the kWatt/kVolt*Amp/kWatt*Hour rating your need (3 phase too)?

    We can estimate a cost of the "system components" and then you can compare those against a Genset backup UPS system that is typically used for Computer Centers (which can be quite large themselves) and such...

    In general, such a system would use batteries to provide just enough power until the gensets are up and running (15 minutes of power or so?). There are also systems out there that use flywheels to store power until the genset is running).

    One company trying to develop flywheel storage for grid scale power:

    Flywheel based electrical storage

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • stephendvstephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: 480V and Battery Backup

    Ingeteam's Ingecon Hybrid inverter can do up to 500Vdc batteries:

    http://www.pyrosolar.nl/Ingecon_Hybrid_B.pdf

    Or did you mean 480V from the PV array, and then battery backup?
  • GreenerPowerGreenerPower Solar Expert Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 480V and Battery Backup

    Solectria has these industrial units in 10s of KW to 100KW. Xantrex and PV powered also have units in 100s KW. Google for them.
    GP
  • Philip CPhilip C Solar Expert Posts: 45
    Re: 480V and Battery Backup

    Very interesting find on the Ingecon Hybrid inverter.
    I noticed it stated only 400VAC output, seems like an odd number to me?

    To be more clear, I'm trying to backup a walk in cooler that is powered by three phase 480V.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 480V and Battery Backup
    Philip C wrote: »
    Are there any battery backup systems designed for 480V service?


    Do you mean pure battery backup, like a UPS, or something good for days/weeks that does not involve 500 gallons of diesel ?
    A mid size water cooled diesel genset is likely your best bet. Can switch-over be delayed 30 min, to see if it's a long failure, or do you nee milli-second switchover ? Batteries, on a large load, are going to be very large, and not last very long, but long enough to get a gen set started and on line.

    It will take a lot of PV to run it daytime.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • stephendvstephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: 480V and Battery Backup

    Agree with Mike, for infrequent outages a genset is going to be much more cost effective than batteries + PV.
    The SMA sunny island multi-cluster boxes might also be of interest if you'd still like to pursue the battery route.
  • RandomJoeRandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    Re: 480V and Battery Backup

    This thread reminds me of the first job I interviewed for right out of college - a company that specialized in industrial UPS / backup systems. Most of the business was simply large banks of gensets to keep an entire production line / facility online, but their more fascinating line (to me, anyway!) was a UPS system for the entire facility. They rectified the utility feed to DC, went through an ENORMOUS battery system, then fed everything with an inverter 24x7. No downtime! (In theory...!)

    That was also where I found that "high voltage" meant different things to different people! I'd worked a couple places that had me around 480V - and that was "high voltage". This place the interviewer asked if I had any experience with HV - then interrupted and said "first, what do you think HV is?" *Their* definition of HV was considerably higher - 480V was LOW voltage!

    Wound up not going there, fascinating as it sounded. The way they worked required you be on the road up to 80% of the time. I'm a homebody, like sleeping in my own bed at night!
  • Philip CPhilip C Solar Expert Posts: 45
    Re: 480V and Battery Backup

    I agree fully a genset is a much more cost effective solution, and I have a funny feeling the customer will agree once he sees the price tags.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 480V and Battery Backup

    A walk in cooler will have considerable thermal mass, and as such, it will loose temperature relatively slowly. As such, it can stand a fairly short power outage without damage to the goods inside.

    Given the basic reliability of the grid, I would vote for a genset back up over some huge battery bank that will have considerable cost, and limited life.

    A good 3 phase genset would most likely be way cheaper, and in the end more reliable.

    Tony
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