charge settings

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petertearai
petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
hi just instaled 4 rolls 600 batts 12 volt system ie 2 in series then then paraleled. Out back fm 80 and 510 watts of panels.
Used in weekends. suggested charge settings woulld be appreciated.
Regards Peter
2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 

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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    Peter.

    Start with the settings from this bulletin:
    http://www.altestore.com/mmsolar/Others/Charging_and_Discharging_BU-RS-614.pdf

    Here is a link to some of the Surrette Bulletins:
    http://www.rollsbattery.com/content/marine-battery-technical-bulletins

    There is also a Battery Manual that needs to be requested by sending an e-mail to Surrette -- Here is the request form:
    http://www.rollsbattery.com/content/battery-user-manual

    Surrette has said that they are moving away from the Bulletins. The Battery Manual was intended to replace the bulletins. Altho, IMHO, the manual lacks detail, and is ambigious in places.

    Monitor the Specific Gravity of the bank, and adjust the settings as needed.

    Good Luck with your new (?) bank. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings
    ...4 rolls 600 batts 12 volt system... (= 1200 amphour 12 volt system) ...510 watts of panels...(=@25-30 amps of charging per hour)

    I understand this will be a weekend system, but I hope you have a generator for equalizing these expensive batteries to keep them healthy!

    If you read the first link in Vic's reply you will note, Rolls suggests a C/20 minimum charge rate or 1/20th of the battery bank capacity (1200 amphour array/20 or about 60 amps)

    For weekend use you likely can get by but need to read up on how to maintain the health of these batteries. I don't think the charge rate is as important as you likely will often be under charging them with out them getting to a bulk level for a few days after a weekend.

    Might look for a battery guru, someone who has a real feel for these batteries. Might call around at Rolls, I personally don't think your setup is very well suited for healthy battery life. If a Rolls sales person sold you these with out informing you about Rolls suggested minimum charge rate, I would see if you could return 2 of them as it was not a reasonable match for your system.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    Thanks for replys to date.
    Batterys are brand new.
    Have set the absorb to 2 hours.I note the fm 80 has an end amp setting for absorb . May look into that.
    Was hoping to get away with a lower charge rate as it will have 5 days to get a full charge.
    Will get some more pannels as soon as I can as 43 amps is the max I have seen from my set up.
    I am in the north of NewZealand so sun is fairly strong.
    Regards Peter
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings
    Will get some more pannels as soon as though as 45 amps is the max I have seen from my set up.
    I am in the north of NewZealand so sun is fairly strong.

    Amps X Volts = Watts

    so

    Watts/amps = Volts

    510/45 = 11.3 Volts at rated value? Even through a MPPT charge controller, I'm going to say "Brave Boast"

    Strong Sun indeed!

    Somethings hinky.

    Sure you just have 510 watts of panels?

    Sure we're talking about over the course of an hour and not a fringe cloud event, with near dead batteries?
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    Your right instananeous amps .Looking at the fm 80 history max watts has been 620 watts but no indecation of how long for .
    Looks like a couple more sharp 130 panels will be in order.
    Is it better to set a time for the absorb or an end amps?
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    All the MX and FM series chargers reported watts are none precise values, the accuracy of the amps measurement is the issue, I have seen a range of -10% to +30% over many controllers. It has no effect on what actual goes into the battery, Many a MX/FM user has bragged about better than name plate ratings from there solar when in fact it's just some digits on the LCD display, not energy going into the batteries
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    A couple more things ..

    First, It may be a bit misleading, but, Surrette rates these batteries at the 100-hour rate -- the S-600 is 599 AH @ 100 hours. The 20-hour spec is 450 AH. The 20-hour rate is the most common in the industry.

    The 10-hour rate is 383 AH, so for the two strings , c/10 is about 77 Amps, just to nit pick.

    Link to the S-600 Data Sheet:
    http://www.dcbattery.com/rollssurrette_s600.pdf

    As noted by Photowhit, a genset is very good to have available. The generator plus a charger that can deliver 50 or more charge amps (plus the avail PV current during the day) can help recharge the bank fairly quickly and give the bank some high charge current, which is good for battery health.

    The End Amps vaue should 1-2% 20-hour rate. This assumes that there are NO other loads. This End Amp function works for me. I use 1.5% of the 20-hour rate, which works fine. The exact setting for your system depends on how you use your power system. You will need t fine tune the Asorb Voltage and time, or if not time, then End Amps.

    You will need a quality Hydrometer. I like the Freas glass, float style Hydrometer. Others may like another type. It is important to RECORD the Specific Gravity readings for every cell, when the bank is fully charged. This should be compensated for temperature (this is the ideal). Save these recorded values in a notebook, with other notes on Eqing the bank, water use, changes to the system etc. It is NOT tedious, just part of the process of learning.

    Search this site for more info .. out of time. Good Luck Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    Thanks
    sg was 1275 on all cells voltage on each batt 6.33v before wireing them up. Inverter shows 12.6 v when drawing 2 amps .
    At present only lights stereo and water pump timed to recharge header tank in middle of week[shure flow 12 volt drawing around 4.5 amps].
    fridge gas.
    Want to get rid of gas fridge in the next 6 months and get a gram fridge freezer or similar.
    will definatley get some more pv before the electic fridge
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
  • rplarry
    rplarry Solar Expert Posts: 203 ✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    peter
    Vic has you on the right track. Set the fm80's absorb to either end at 1% of the amphour capacity of the battery bank, or set a time. You can determine the time by monitoring a charge cycle and seeing how long it takes for the fm80 to reach 1% and set it to float after that much time has elapsed. I use the time method, because the CC can be fooled by clouds and can prematurly go to float when using the min amps method.

    I recently did a chest freezer to fridge conversion and it works great. Uses around 200 watts in 24 hours and keeps all my drinks 35F/2C. Could not be happier with it. Really easy to do.
    Good luck with yours.
    Larry
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,471 admin
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    Re: charge settings

    Larry,

    Regarding your chest freezer conversion... How did you end up doing the Thermostat and your inverter setup (if off-grid)?

    Simple AC mechanical thermostat?

    Anything to only turn on the inverter when the compressor is needed--or is the inverter running in "search mode" or just part of your inverter/off-grid setup?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • rplarry
    rplarry Solar Expert Posts: 203 ✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    Bill
    I bought a 5cf chest freezer off craigs list, then I bought a Johnson controls external thermstat switch, and finally an extension cord from Home depot. There are no alterations to the freezer what so ever. You take the thermostat switch and wire it using the extension cord. Cut the extension cord and make the connections inside the thermstat control, set the temp on the control that you want the freezer/now refer to stay at and plug it into an AC outlet. You're done. My freezer/refer only runs a few minutes an hour and holds 35 to 40 temp. Perfect for my favorite beverage.
    Larry
  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    Added 260 watts more panels So now 770 in total. Also purchased a samsung fridge freezer 238l 5 star 338 Kw per year..(new less than $600 ).
    batterys had 1275 sg on new but have found that after a week with holiday home empty the sg would not go above 1265 on arival.
    absorb set to 3 hours at 14.4 Float at 13.8( default for outback fm80)
    This weekend have done a 1 hour EQ at 15.6 volts and sg came up to 1275.
    Have decided to increase absorb to 14.5.
    While there fm80 gets to float by mid day .
    Is all working as expected?
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,471 admin
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    Re: charge settings

    Sounds OK...

    Don't feel you have to get the batteries to 1.275 SG every day--That may be a bit much. Aim for 90%+ state of charge and watch the water usage... Too much water usage will indicate overcharging. To little, undercharging.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    Thanks for your help. So leave as is and equilize every 2 months or so.It gets 5 days or more to get a good top up with almost nothing being drawn.
    Regards Peter
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: charge settings

    Another question. Is running the vacume 65 amps at nominal 12 volts have the same or similar effect as an eqilize in that it willl mix the electrolite ? Also is 65 amps for 10 min or so ok on my 900 ah batts. Assuming a soc of approx 90%
    Thanks for your replys I am finding this forum very informative.
    Regards Peter
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home