Midnite Classic CC Watch

Vic

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

OK, The Classic is shipping now.

Has anyone here gotten a production unit ?

The resellers I've checked say there is no stock. One mentioned that they had gotten a few.

Just curious. Thanks, Vic

tallgirl

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

I groped one the other night. The Modbus support wasn't there, so I didn't get to fondle it lovingly. I just sort of poked my finger at it.

Over on the LateNightMysterySolar board the word is they are going to be back ordered for =months=. For my money (and lack of patience), I'd just get an FM-80 or TriStar.

Vic

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

Hi Julie,

Thanks, am not sure which board you are referring to ... MN ?? .. but anyway, have one on order for a porject, and need some of the capabilities of the Classic.

I'm impatiently patient.

Thanks, Have Fun, Vic

backroad

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

I got tired of waiting and am just getting ready to install my new FM80.......

I thought that I had been very patient....

niel

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

backroad,
after all of this waiting you are so close to being able to have one in your hands that you don't realize you jumped just a tad too soon. they are going out, but it may not be enough to fill all of the orders as you aren't the only one who has waited for this day. to those who are still waiting, if you need something asap then i can understand, but for the rest, go ahead and call in an order to reserve yourself one.

to those who may be wondering how it is i can say this, it is because i was in touch trying to collect items to avoid the winter crisis i had last year. i got a deal on many items through the folks at midnight solar and of course our host, naws. i am in the process of backing up some circuits in my home as we speak as this is a priority.

note what i say here,
"i now have a classic for midnight solar has given me the controller that they had promised me many years ago."

i still have to finish up aspects of the backups and then i'll be hooking up the classic. the pvs i have at present are also insufficient and will need to be replaced come the warmer weather sometime and i am talking to folks on options, deals, etc. for that need.

tallgirl

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

Niel,

I'm sure they will =eventually= be a great charge controller. Right now they are a very scarce change controller with fewer total features than an MX-60 or TS-60 and a higher price.

If I was looking for a new charge controller today (not next month or next summer), I'd go with a FM-80 or TS-60. Both are cheaper and both have working communications scheme AND both can be bought tomorrow.

tallgirl

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

Vic wrote: »

Hi Julie,

Thanks, am not sure which board you are referring to ... MN ?? .. but anyway, have one on order for a porject, and need some of the capabilities of the Classic.

I'm impatiently patient.

Thanks, Have Fun, Vic

Vic,

I was down by Maverick's house (he lives 30 miles or so southwest-ish from me) and had a chance to lustfully oggle a MidNite Classic. I tried to get it to talk Modbus to me, but TCP port 502 wasn't active, and I'm not sure anything else network-related was active. Which means ... no way for me to talk to one.

niel

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl wrote: »

Niel,

I'm sure they will =eventually= be a great charge controller. Right now they are a very scarce change controller with fewer total features than an MX-60 or TS-60 and a higher price.

If I was looking for a new charge controller today (not next month or next summer), I'd go with a FM-80 or TS-60. Both are cheaper and both have working communications scheme AND both can be bought tomorrow.

interesting, care to itemize what the fm80 and ts60 have over the classic?

although cheaper, the outbacks did have issues at night and the ts is far from being cheaper as by the time one gets the morningstar addons it is just as much if not more in cost.

halfcrazy

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl wrote: »

Niel,

I'm sure they will =eventually= be a great charge controller. Right now they are a very scarce change controller with fewer total features than an MX-60 or TS-60 and a higher price.

If I was looking for a new charge controller today (not next month or next summer), I'd go with a FM-80 or TS-60. Both are cheaper and both have working communications scheme AND both can be bought tomorrow.

I would say we have more features than either of those controllers as we set right now. Do either of those work with wind? Hydro? Allow the user to program there own power curve for wind?

As far as communications goes communicate to what? The outback stuff communicates to a Mate and if you are way more talented than myself and Morningstar tech support I guess you can get a Tri star on the internet.

Oh yeah our controller talks (Had to throw that in) Well I feel this is beating a dead horse I just had to chime in a little.

Oh yeah one more thing we are a dollar more A DOLLAR than the outback and we give you Arc fault and Ground fault.

halfcrazy

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl wrote: »

Niel,

I'm sure they will =eventually= be a great charge controller. Right now they are a very scarce change controller with fewer total features than an MX-60 or TS-60 and a higher price.

Ok I keep listening to Julie poke us for our controller being expensive I did a little research and first of all we are 1 dollar more list price than an FM80. But for retail prices I was told sun electric has Classic 150's for 570.00 they also sell FM80's for 586.50 so in what world is 570 more than 586.50?

I will stop beating this dead horse now I just wanted to clarify for everyone else the numbers.

BB.

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

OK Guys (and a Tall Girl)...

Let the product get out there and go through the teething issues (if any).

There is no one product that is right for everyone--and as devices get more complex, unfortunately, the problems and issues get more complex too.

And I hope that the good products out there become successful products too.

-Bill

boB

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl wrote: »

Vic,

I was down by Maverick's house (he lives 30 miles or so southwest-ish from me) and had a chance to lustfully oggle a MidNite Classic. I tried to get it to talk Modbus to me, but TCP port 502 wasn't active, and I'm not sure anything else network-related was active. Which means ... no way for me to talk to one.

The modbus "documentation" is not complete yet.
Try port 3900 and address 10 (decimal) . It should be changeable to 502 but it is not necessary to be that port.

There are good reasons for that NOT to be port 502 by default . (mainly security)

Just because you couldn't talk to it doesn't mean it doesn't work. The MNGP remote uses modbus and there are 4 ports (total) that talk modbus. You just have to know what you are doing and without that documentation, you won't.

boB

niel

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl.
i'm still waiting for you to say how this is so,
(the classic is a) "change controller with fewer total features than an MX-60 or TS-60 and a higher price."
that is your comment i quoted and i'd like to hear the reasoning you have behind this. what's worse is you are saying a controller that boB designed many years ago is better than what he more recently designed as you did cite the mx60 and not the fm80 as i put in here initially. this makes no sense from somebody who claims to have many degrees. please clarify yourself.

Robin Gudgel

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

Julie, it would appear from your disparaging and innacurate comments that you are still miffed that we will not give you a Classic for free as you have repeatedly requested. Many years ago while I was president of OutBack, I ran into a similar situation with the Solar Guppy. Despite warnings from my partners at OutBack, I accommodated the Solar Guppy with a very inexpensive MX60. As it turns out, he was working for Xantrex and just used that MX60 against us. The comments you have made about the Classic having less features and costing more is not only untrue, but makes me very suspicious. I am aware you have many dealings with OutBack and Morningstar. You insist on jumping the gun on reporting alleged Modbus non functionality and are making untrue statements regarding our product after boB did give you advance information. You do not have the full documentation that will allow you to talk to the Classic. All will be available in good time, but there will be no further advance info coming your way. boB even gave you the reason that you were not able to connect to our ModBus here a few threads back. Our communications system is very complex. Nothing like what we are doing has ever been done before in the RE industry. It will be very easy to use for the consumer, but a real bitch for the engineers here at MidNite. The MidNite graphics display module is easily 4 times more complicated than the entire FM60 controller, and that is just the display! Andrew, our Classic internet and ModBus EE engineer summed it up the best. He says that at this point, anyone who wants most fully featured controller, yet buys the competition, will just end up spending anothr $600 or so after they find out what all the Classic is actually capable of. We will shortly be creating a controller comparison for all to see. Let the chips fall where they may. We will also be placing on our website some realtime comparisons using identical arrays for all to see. We have been doing this ourselves for years now. Suffice it to say, the Classic is on top of power production. The FM60 and 80 are very fine products. boB designed the MX60 that they are based on many years ago. The Morningstar is also a fine controller although after spending many hours on the phone with them, we are still unable to hook up to the internet on two of our beta sites using two different units. It does do a fine job of charging, but is very expensive for the power output and voltage limitations.
By the way, are you aware that the Classic is the only totally made in America charge controller? No, I suppose that does not matter to you.
Thank you,
Robin Gudgel
MidNite Solar

tallgirl

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

Ryan,

EVENTUALLY a Classic will be a better controller. How about you tell people what isn't =actually= shipping in the current firmware? Not what might eventually, some day, sooner or later, after the engineers have been locked in a room, but right now, I can buy one with all those features tomorrow and have it shipped to me the same day.

And getting a TriStar on the internet requires a Cat5 cable and a router. Which is to say, they are about as easy to get on a network as anything else. I have one I hooked up to a wireless bridge (because I didn't have a wired connection where the charge controller is) and was able to look at it immediately from the comfort of inside (because it's winter and I don't do "cold" very well ...). The hardest part was getting AC power to the bridge because I didn't have the correct DC power connections.

I've been in tech for 32 years and I don't ever recall seeing this fine of an example of vaporware. And I've seen some pretty fine examples of vaporware over the years!

halfcrazy

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl wrote: »

Ryan,

EVENTUALLY a Classic will be a better controller. How about you tell people what isn't =actually= shipping in the current firmware? Not what might eventually, some day, sooner or later, after the engineers have been locked in a room, but right now, I can buy one with all those features tomorrow and have it shipped to me the same day.

And getting a TriStar on the internet requires a Cat5 cable and a router. Which is to say, they are about as easy to get on a network as anything else. I have one I hooked up to a wireless bridge (because I didn't have a wired connection where the charge controller is) and was able to look at it immediately from the comfort of inside (because it's winter and I don't do "cold" very well ...). The hardest part was getting AC power to the bridge because I didn't have the correct DC power connections.

I've been in tech for 32 years and I don't ever recall seeing this fine of an example of vaporware. And I've seen some pretty fine examples of vaporware over the years!

As far as vaporware I guess I am confused if you actually played with a production unit yourself how is it possible to be vaporware? I suspect this statement is made because there is not a Classic setting at Green house pc.

What is not working in the current firmware:
Snow Melt
Wind learn mode
Parallel stacking (Although that is this weeks project I think)
Maybe Millie's voice although that was last weeks project.
Boost Mode

I will say the Classic has all the internet stuff done in it and does talk to our server already it will be a couple weeks before we have our user interface on the server.

Maybe i am missing something here but I think that's it and these feature will come fast now and with user upgradable software it is a breeze for everyone to get the latest software. With a controller this sophisticated there will always be things that change for example a new wind turbine power curve so the ability to upgrade software was intended to be easy for that reason.

To summarize any one that has purchased a production Classic will have way more functionality out of the box than the competition.

halfcrazy

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl wrote: »

Ryan,

And getting a TriStar on the internet requires a Cat5 cable and a router. Which is to say, they are about as easy to get on a network as anything else. I have one I hooked up to a wireless bridge (because I didn't have a wired connection where the charge controller is) and was able to look at it immediately from the comfort of inside (because it's winter and I don't do "cold" very well ...). The hardest part was getting AC power to the bridge because I didn't have the correct DC power connections.

Maybe you should go to work for Morningstar I literally spent 2.5 hours on the phone with them and they had me doing way more than plugging in a cat 5 cable. I had to set up some kind of dns server with a url that had to point to my ip address that happens to be dynamic ip (or always changing). I had to make a bunch of changes to my router for port forwarding and turning off some form of security. They basically came to the determination my Linkysy router was too complicated to figure out. I was told they really do not support routers. They said there were too many of them so that is up to the end user. It would have been great if they new it literally needed just a cat5 cable. That would have saved me 2.5 hours.

tallgirl

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

Robin,

No, it really has nothing to do with not getting a free Classic from you guys, though I am disappointed that promises were made and not kept. Nor am I in anything like the same situation as Solar Guppy -- I don't work for APRS World, Bogart Engineering, Morningstar, OutBack, SMA or any other company whose products I support. I make it a point to be as neutral as possible, and that includes being neutral "for" and "against" a product.

I'm very suspicious that you're making claims that talking to a Modbus enabled device is somehow "complex". Modbus is a very old, robust and highly standardized protocol. The Modbus/TCP protocol is likewise very old, robust and highly standardized. Open port, build packet, send packet, listen for reply, disassemble packet, close port, have a nice day.

I added Morningstar Relay Driver support using Modbus because I needed additional relays for some clients. That effort took about 40 hours or so, mostly because the Modbus library I use is a piece of cr@p. I then added support for a SunSaver MPPT I bought from Maverick and it took about 20 hours. Maverick loaned me a SureSine 300 (I offered to take a loaner from you guys and send it back when I was done -- I don't need yet another charge controller and I don't want to go through the hassle of buying one, having it on the books, then selling it so it isn't lying around) and SureSine support took maybe 20 hours because I recycled some of the SMA inverter support logic. Morningstar sent me -- complimentary -- a SunSaver Duo and TriStar MPPT and each of those took somewhere around 10 or 15 hours to support. Knowing that the MidNite Classic is eventually going to support Modbus/TCP, I added Modbus/TCP support for the TriStar, since it supports that protocol. It was another 40 hour ordeal, again beacuse my Modbus library is a piece of cr@p and not at all because of the TriStar. The TriStar responded via Modbus/TCP the very first time I tried to access it. First time -- not second or third. Then -- because I have a client who asked if they could access a 40KW OutBack-based system via Modbus, I added Modbus Slave support to my product, created 4 different Modbus register maps =and= write both the master and slave side code. All since November or December of last year.

I share this with you because I haven't a clue why your Modbus engineer can't seem to make Modbus work all that easily. It's not like Modbus is =hard= or anything. TCP is sort of hard. X.25 is just plain weird. Modbus? Modbus is =easy=. It was written in the 1970's to run on things that weren't even computers by today's standards. And if it is "complex", you might as well throw it out because that extra "complexity" will insure that no one uses it because ... Modbus is a very old standard that doesn't take well to incompatible "features".

As for boB's comment that it talks on port 3900 because of "security", the National Security Agency (as well as several European and Asian governments, but I digress) thinks I'm a pretty smart cookie when it comes to security and "security through obscurity" isn't. There are enough different ways to figure out what is on the other end of a network connection that if the device isn't just plain secure-secure, moving the port around isn't going to help one bit.

boB

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl wrote: »

Robin,
As for boB's comment that it talks on port 3900 because of "security", the National Security Agency (as well as several European and Asian governments, but I digress) thinks I'm a pretty smart cookie when it comes to security and "security through obscurity" isn't. There are enough different ways to figure out what is on the other end of a network connection that if the device isn't just plain secure-secure, moving the port around isn't going to help one bit.

No, modbus by itself won't be anymore secure using a non-standard port, but it sure could slow someone down if they were expecting it to be on port 502. In fact, I just saw recently somewhere that someone gave up because it wasn't on port 502.

boB

tallgirl

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

halfcrazy wrote: »

Maybe you should go to work for Morningstar I literally spent 2.5 hours on with them and they had me doing way more then plugging in a cat 5 cable. I had to set up some kind of dns server with a url that had to point to my ip address that happens to be static ip (or always changing). and had to make a bunch of changes to my router for port forwarding and turning off some form of security. And they basically came to the determination my Linkysy router was to complicated to figure out they do not support routers that is up to the end user? It would have been great if there tech support new it literally needed just a cat5 cable that would have saved me 2.5 hours.

Ryan,

You'll have to do the exact same thing with a MidNite Classic if you want to access it on the Internet.

What I did was =literally= this --

1). Unplugged my netbook that's running the Modbus versions of my company's software.
2). Plugged in a Trendnet wifi bridge into the receptacle I just unplugged the netbook from.
3). Found a long enough Cat5 to connect the TriStar and the Trendnet and connected them. This took a while because my cables are strewn all over the place and I didn't want to open a new cable.
4). Walked inside and asked my DHCP server where the TriStar showed up on the LAN. That took about 15 seconds, after I got comfy. With a Linksys router it takes maybe 2 or 3 minutes -- it's the "DHCP Clients" page.
5). Started a Modbus Master with the IP address from the DHCP server against port 502.
6). The TriStar told me what it was doing and why after scanning 16 possible unit numbers (because I was too lazy to see that it would come up as Unit 1 ...)

That was =literally= all it took.

If I wanted to access it on the Internet, I'd have needed to port forward some port at the firewall to port 502 on LAN address whatever the heck it was. That takes 2 or 3 minutes with most Linksys routers (including opening the web browser), though in my case I have a state-full filtering firewall (wrote it myself ...) and it would have taken a few minutes longer because I'd have needed to add the port to several different access classes to keep the l33t h4x0rs out. I've walked a number of clients through the process -- usually takes 5 or 10 minutes by phone.

I already use Dynamic DNS to keep the house IP at a fixed name, so there's no need to do that. Here's the service I use -- http://freedns.afraid.org/domain/registry/ Very easy to set up -- maybe another 10 or 15 minutes.

tallgirl

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

boB wrote: »

No, modbus by itself won't be anymore secure using a non-standard port, but it sure could slow someone down if they were expecting it to be on port 502. In fact, I just saw recently somewhere that someone gave up because it wasn't on port 502.

boB

Actually, I gave up because the box I tried against had =zero= open ports, including 80, 8080 =and= 502.

If I wanted to hack something on teh interwebs, I'd start with nmap then move on to tcpdump. Assuming the Classic responds to Read Modbus Encapsulated Information, from there it would be a matter of using Google to tell me the Modbus map once that's been published.

Real security isn't hard -- my system has been on the Internet for 3 1/2 years on port 9090. No one has managed to turn anything off that they shouldn't be turning off in all those years -- and people have tried!

boB

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl wrote: »

Actually, I gave up because the box I tried against had =zero= open ports, including 80, 8080 =and= 502.

If I wanted to hack something on teh interwebs, I'd start with nmap then move on to tcpdump. Assuming the Classic responds to Read Modbus Encapsulated Information, from there it would be a matter of using Google to tell me the Modbus map once that's been published.

Real security isn't hard -- my system has been on the Internet for 3 1/2 years on port 9090. No one has managed to turn anything off that they shouldn't be turning off in all those years -- and people have tried!

Are you able to turn on and off the OutBack MF80/60 gear and change charging voltages through the interface ? Have they finally published that spec ? I think they will have to here fairly soon. I thought I had heard some rumor that may happen.

boB

tallgirl

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

boB wrote: »

Are you able to turn on and off the OutBack MF80/60 gear and change charging voltages through the interface ? Have they finally published that spec ? I think they will have to here fairly soon.

boB

Not for the MX or FM, but I can control most of the FX settings over the Internet. Whenever I get a bit more time, I'll add that for the SunSaver and TriStar controllers I have, and the Classic whenever I get my hands on one.

The Mate 3 is, as you are surely aware, still vaporware, but I'll have support for that gadget whenever mine shows up in the mail. Which was supposed to have happened in December. The older programmable Mate is ... older ... and limited to reprogramming inverters, but I don't expose that functionality in the web browser interface (it is exposed in the Java application interface) because I don't want to support people doing stupid things to their inverters. Reprogramming charge controllers is a LOT safer.

boB

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl wrote: »

Robin,
I'm very suspicious that you're making claims that talking to a Modbus enabled device is somehow "complex". Modbus is a very old, robust and highly standardized protocol. The Modbus/TCP protocol is likewise very old, robust and highly standardized. Open port, build packet, send packet, listen for reply, disassemble packet, close port, have a nice day.

I was just going to leave this, Julie, but I have to clear up a few points. Actually, Robin said...

"Our communications system is very complex."

He is absolutely correct !

The modbus protocol by itself is fairly straightforward and even making it work on a PC when talking to an already made modbus device isn't too bad in its basic form. I'm sure your monitoring will work great when you get it done...

But putting this functionality and all of the necessary variants (OK, maybe not ALL variants, like ASCII), into an embedded product, providing multiple ports, Server, Client, modbus over TCP/IP, file transfer, keeping the code small and efficient enough to ALSO run a power controller, (this is only part of it), is a PITA and takes a LOT of time and engineering ! BTW, we didn't just download some modbus library to make this work. We wanted to do quite a bit more so we started from scratch. Oh, also, it has to work so if there is a communications glitch, it doesn't blow up ! A PC or data logging application running on a PC or a separate piece of hardware doesn't have that looming over it.
There's just a LOT of little but very important details involved.

There are also some special situations you may eventually become aware of that make the modbus over TCP/IP much harder than just the standard old open port, send, receive a packet, close port and then "have a nice day". (I do like that term though


And we don't use an embedded Linux or Windows OS circuit board with megabytes or gigabytes of memory available. Hardware was also started from scratch.

Next chance you get, ask Morningstar if they thought their controller was a piece of cake to design. It took longer to design theirs' than the Classic has already taken which is a long time. And MS is still working on features and fixes, too !

Thanks,
boB

keyturbocars

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

I'm looking at this from the Wind perspective, and I don't see ANY other controller out there that is able to do what the Classic can do.... regardless of price.

Last week, I ordered a Classic 150 through Sun Electronics for $570. I would not say the Classic 150 is priced higher than the competition. That's very competitive. True, that some dealers might have a much higher price now for a newly released product that is in high demand. That's understandable. The consumer just needs to shop around a little. Considering the fact that it's all made in the USA, I'd say that it's a bargain!

I decided to buy now even though I know that there will be updates in the future. One thing is very clear to me... boB & Robin are very serious about supporting their product. I have no concerns at all that they will continue to make firmware updates and support the Classic to the highest degree. Software can be updated easy enough as time goes on. I know that any issues that might come up will be taken care of by the Midnite team. These guys have invested a big part of their lives in bringing the Classic to market, and it's clear to me that they are in this for the long haul.

If it were coming from any other company, then I'd wait and see how things work out. I've seen enough of how boB and Robin have directly interacted with consumers to answer questions (my own included), that I feel comfortable and confident in ordering one right now. It's not like other companies where you have to talk to a tech support person that might know "something" about the product. Being able to interact with the designers is impressive to me. It's a big reason why I feel comfortable in buying a Classic now!

Lots of good info starting to form on the new Midnite forum:

http://www.midnitesolar.com/smf_forum/index.php

Edward

tallgirl

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

boB,

It's taken longer to =fix= the Modbus library than it would have to write one from scratch. Some "time saving" decisions don't.

I don't know if you are or aren't aware, I'm an O/S kernel internals programmer by trade, and I built my first computer by hand when Gerald Ford was president. Believe me, I have a fairly good handle on what you're up against.

As I wrote to Ryan, I'm sure it will be a great charge controller when it's finished. But as I also wrote, it isn't finished. I spoke to a client the other day who waited =years= for a Classic and they, like several other clients I've spoken to previously, gave up and bought something else. Fortunately, the support I added for the TriStar (which wasn't in my plans) will make it easier to support the Classic (which was). I just can't afford to sit around and wait for a product to be ready, or for a promised unit to appear, and not have that happen.

boB

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

tallgirl wrote: »

boB,

I don't know if you are or aren't aware, I'm an O/S kernel internals programmer by trade, and I built my first computer by hand when Gerald Ford was president. Believe me, I have a fairly good handle on what you're up against.

Good. It didn't sound as though you did understand from the wording you used.

tallgirl

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

boB wrote: »

Good. It didn't sound as though you did understand from the wording you used.

I'm used to that reaction.

halfcrazy

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

keyturbocars wrote: »

I'm looking at this from the Wind perspective, and I don't see ANY other controller out there that is able to do what the Classic can do.... regardless of price.

Last week, I ordered a Classic 150 through Sun Electronics for $570. I would not say the Classic 150 is priced higher than the competition. That's very competitive. True, that some dealers might have a much higher price now for a newly released product that is in high demand. That's understandable. The consumer just needs to shop around a little. Considering the fact that it's all made in the USA, I'd say that it's a bargain!

I decided to buy now even though I know that there will be updates in the future. One thing is very clear to me... boB & Robin are very serious about supporting their product. I have no concerns at all that they will continue to make firmware updates and support the Classic to the highest degree. Software can be updated easy enough as time goes on. I know that any issues that might come up will be taken care of by the Midnite team. These guys have invested a big part of their lives in bringing the Classic to market, and it's clear to me that they are in this for the long haul.

If it were coming from any other company, then I'd wait and see how things work out. I've seen enough of how boB and Robin have directly interacted with consumers to answer questions (my own included), that I feel comfortable and confident in ordering one right now. It's not like other companies where you have to talk to a tech support person that might know "something" about the product. Being able to interact with the designers is impressive to me. It's a big reason why I feel comfortable in buying a Classic now!

Lots of good info starting to form on the new Midnite forum:

http://www.midnitesolar.com/smf_forum/index.php

Edward

Edward you are spot on it is the only real controller for wind at the moment.

You are also correct it is the only one of the major controllers on the market today totally made in the good old USA we brought jobs to the us not china we felt in todays economy that was extremely important.

lorelec

Re: Midnite Classic CC Watch

I don't have any stake in any of this, except that I feel compelled to mention that I've been building my controllers in the USA for two years now...and that includes everything from the bare PCB on up. I realize that I'm not a major player yet, but I've seen mention made in several places by Midnight (including their print ads) that the Classic is the only US-built controller, which simply isn't true.

Marc