need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...

Sorry for this post Friends, but i dont know what else to do. This is my very 1st post and also new to Alternative Energy.
If any body can help me with some pointers as to what I got and to what should I do about the problems encountered. Thanks for your help. I bought,
1. (1) KC85ts, kyocera panel, 87 watts.
2. Sunforce charge controller, 12volt, 30amp.
3. (1) battery from Walmart 115ah, 12v Everstart 27dc-6, Marine.
4. 13w CFL Marine/Feit electric. Equivalent 60w incandecent.
5. 150'/18 gauge Walmart speaker/wire.
6. (2) 60 leds, 3watts wide white/bright light bulbs.
QUESTIONS/PROBLEMS
1. need 6 lights for house night time use, and 5 more for outside use.
2. what wire i need from panel to controller, to battery, to all lights and how long (in feet).
3. do i need a breaker/ fuse, what number, Distribution box, which one, how.
4. If i can also get a Wind Generator to the controler to help with the power to the batteries, which one should i build, Watts and amps. And which controller.
5. Am thinking about switching to (2) 6volt 225ah batteries.
6. should i buy another controller?
Sorry again friends, i have a lot more but i hope someone answers this ones. i hope am pointed to the right direction.
thank you very much,
pals145

Comments

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...

    1) keep the battery you bought, and use it like a learner battery, when it dies, then consider different.
    Your item : 4. 13w CFL Marine/Feit electric. Equivalent 60w incandecent.
    Is it a 12V bulb, or does it need 120VAC ?

    Your item : 6. (2) 60 leds, 3watts wide white/bright light bulbs.
    is that 2, 3W bulbs, each with 60 LEDs inside ?

    Wire length, I have no idea how far it is from your Power Center, to your outside lights. If you are running 3W LED bulbs, they only draw a samll amount of current, so you could run a hundred feet or so, of 18ga speaker wire, and be OK. I would use a 1A fuse for each LED circuit, and the fuse goes close to the battery. You should study some digrams to understand this better. We don't want you to burn your house up.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...

    :confused:hi mike 90045,
    hey thank you very much for helping me.
    yes those cfl are 12v, 13watts ea.
    and the leds are 3watts ea 60 leds each.
    Umm, from the panel to the controller is about 40 feet.
    the thing is that I got those 13w 12v cfl,bulbs and they run from the controller to the front porch is about 55feet.
    See, I want to put lights on the inside (kitchen, family room, bathroom) and on the outside, 4, one for each side of the house.
    I plan to use those cfl's, 13w, 12volts i got. they really light up the place. my question is should i run one wire, maybe a -10 to the ditribution block from the battery(25'), and from the distribution block to the different places of the house(light bulbs) using maybe a -12 wire. any comments on that?
    thanks for your help Mike.
    pals145
  • crewzercrewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...
    4. 13w CFL Marine/Feit electric. Equivalent 60w incandecent.

    6. (2) 60 leds, 3watts wide white/bright light bulbs.


    1. need 6 lights for house night time use, and 5 more for outside use.
    Pals145,

    We need a bit more information from you. Specifically:

    1) How many hours per day for each of the 13 W CFL lamps?
    2) How many hours per day for each of the LED lamps?
    3) About where do you live? If possible, please pick a location from this list. You may need to look into neighboring states to find a data site near you.

    More later,
    Jim / crewzer
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...

    thanks Jim,
    i need about 12 hours a day for each of the 13w 12v cfl lamps.
    and about the leds, i would like to use tha cfl instead. those really light up my house.
    thanks
    pals145
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...
    pals145 wrote: »
    thanks Jim,
    i need about 12 hours a day for each of the 13w 12v cfl lamps.
    and about the leds, i would like to use tha cfl instead. those really light up my house.
    thanks
    pals145

    12 hrs x 4 lamps @ 13W = 624 watt hours burned ( 4 CFL's)
    vs
    1, 85 watt panel, in 4 hours good sun = 340 WH collected.

    Do you see the problem, you need another solar panel, and even then you will not be able to quite fully charge the batteries.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...

    ok, Mike, got it
    thank you friend.
    so 2 more 87watts panels and (2) 6 volt 225 ah batt.
  • crewzercrewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...

    Let’s make sure we’re communicating here. :confused:

    6 CFLs + 5 CFLs = 11 CFLs x 12 hrs/day x 13 W/ CFL = 1,716 Wh/day. Is this what you had in mind? If so, and assuming 65% overall system efficiency and the equivalent of 4 hours/day of “full” Sunlight, you’ll need an array rated at (1,716 Wh / 65%) / 4 hours/day = ~660 W.

    Here's the missing link to the list I mentioned above. :blush:

    We still need to have a better idea of where you’re located. With your daily energy requirement and your location established, we can give you a pretty good idea of what you’ll need.

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...
    pals145 wrote: »
    ok, Mike, got it
    thank you friend.
    so 2 more 87watts panels and (2) 6 volt 225 ah batt.

    Whoa! We still are not talking right here, I don't uinderstand how many CFL bulbs you plan on, and how many 3W LED bulbs. Pleas give us a total of each.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...

    sorry, for some reason couldnt log in.
    total 9 cfl 13watt, 12volt to run from 7:00pm til 7:00am.
    4 cfl inside and 5 outside.
    thanks.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...

    Why do you need (all) these lights to be on 12 hours a day? Motion sensors outside, even in mud rooms and baths work well to reduce overall loads. simple pull chain and wall switches are even cheaper. You can light a room with a .05watt led to get you in the room to turn on the real light.

    What most people don't realize, alternative energy buff or grid connected, your cheapest source of savings is in reducing unneeded loads. If you can reduce your load 25% (Pretty easy and cheap to do, cfl, led, turning things off) you can reduce the size of your system 25% (pretty expensive).

    Spend some time reading and looking at what others have done. The great thing about the web is that there are amazing resources out there, (Including, I might add, this site!) and there are lots of people who have reinvented the wheel a hundred times over, and as such there is little need to do it yourself. This stuff is not rocket science, but more good sense.

    I also might add, remeber the old adage,,avoid the Ready, Fire, Aim response of many.

    Icarus
  • crewzercrewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...
    total 9 cfl 13watt, 12volt to run from 7:00pm til 7:00am.
    4 cfl inside and 5 outside.
    OK. Your energy requirement is 9 CFL’s x 13 W / CFL x 12 hrs/day = 1,404 Wh/day. Assuming 65% overall system efficiency, and four hours /day of “full” Sunlight, you’ll need an array rated for at least 540 W STC. If you need lights from “dusk-to-dawn”, I’d consider the 12 V x 20 A version of the Morningstar Sunlight controller.

    http://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/SunLight/index.shtml

    Each 13 W CFL will require 13 W / 12 V = 1.08 A. 9 lamps x 1.08 A x 12 hours will require 117 Ah/day. An appropriate sized battery bank would be 12 V x (117 Ah/day x 6 days) = 12 V x 702 Ah. Three size 4D AGM (VRLA) batteries wired in parallel should work well enough.

    There are other ways to do this, but this should give you an idea of the scope of your project.

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...

    pals,
    if you use #18 the voltage drop will be severe at around 3.5v being dumped because of excessive wire resistance. if you will make a connection that is around 5-6ft from the battery to the 4 lights the #18 would work. from the pvs to the controller and battery i'd use #8 or better for the 40ft run at 5amps from the pv for 2.42%. i'd do the same for the runs to the lights as being #8 or better for a 55ft run of wire also, but the losses are brought down somewhat because 4 13w cfls would be about 4.34 amps giving the loss at 2.89%. ideally, all totalled from pv to load should be <5% overall and what i just specified at #8 would be over 5.3%.
    this is being calculated by the voltage drop calculator in the general solar sticky. maybe a slight shortening of the wire run or amps being carried could bring it into this 5% or less catagory, otherwise you may need to place a #6 section of wire in there somewhere to get the overall % down. i know it seems like alot, but low voltage dc does not carry well for any longer distances. the alternative of using an inverter might save on the wire cost as 120vac would travel farther with a smaller wire gauge being used, but you are paying for the inverter and it will add a sizable % of inefficiency to the system. using an inverter may not be a good answer either for those reasons, plus it must be turned on and off or suffer losses due to idling losses. it's up to you which sounds better to you, but if you use the inverter then go with the 120vac cfls or the reconverting to 12vdc would further degrade the efficiency.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need help!!! i think this bomb is for the xperts...

    hmm. i could not edit this time, but the percentages i listed are for voltage drop losses.
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