Basic Solar Help

I know nothing about Solar or Wind Power other than we should use more of it.
My brother built a new home 1600 sq.ft last year and is using solar for all power, he is in Muskoka Ontario Canada and of course to proud to admit its not working and ask for help.
The people who sold him this unit insist it will run the house. All it is running is the boiler-heated floor 6 hours per day and TV for 2 hours.
How many panels and batteries should he need. Presently he has 8 2 x 4 panels and LOTS of batteries.
As I have said I know nothing but would like to help without hurting his feelings!!!

Comments

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Basic Solar Help

    8 large panels will not run a whole lot. If a person reduces their loads to a minimum, and conserves like mad, you could maybe live off 1500 watts. If the house was carefully built to conserve, etc.... it's possible but not likely for someone of your brothers skill level in alternative energy. Sorry. Wintertime in the northren lattitudes - hardly any useable sun.
    And if the batteries have been abused, by over discharge/insufficient charge, they are likely toast. You may have a Legal Case on your hands, we'd have to know a whole lot more specifics about the entire system and loads it runs.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Basic Solar Help

    Hmmmm.... I am not too sure how you can help him without having more information. But first the warnings.

    In general a solar PV system is pretty bulliet proof. Too small of panels, an inefficient modified sinewave (really mod-square wave) inverter and a few lights/electronics will last pretty well--even if there is not enough sun or panels to supply all the power needed (trying to take more power than being generated won't hurt the system)...

    EXCEPT FOR THE BATTERIES... That is the weak point in an undersized/over subscribed system. If the batteries are ran flat, or never fully charged they will form "sulfates" which harden and prevent the batteries from delivering their full charge/discharge ratings (the sulfates prevent the plates from charging/discharging). Also, a undercharged battery in subfreezing weather (unheated storage room) will freeze and crack the case(s) at "relatively" warm temperatures.

    So--the first thing to do would be to make sure that the batteries are not being damaged. They need to be fully charged every ~2-5 days and (if they are flooded cell) equalized once or twice a month (per vendor's instructions). In the winter, that probably means a generator (or electrical grid connection) to fully charge during the winter months (assuming cloudy weather).

    Once the battery system is stabilized it is pretty much logging how much power is generated by the current panels and measuring how much power your brother needs to consume.

    The issue is that most folks unless they are hardcore off-grid living folks use quite a bit of electricity. For example, I live in a pretty moderte climate (near SF California) and I use around 200-300 kWhrs per month (3,500 STC watt grid tied through a 3kW inverter system--no batteries). The average for our area is probably around 600-1,200 kWhours per month.

    I believe your brother's system is significantly smaller than mine (1/2-1/3 the size?)... In the end, you really need to know the specs. of his system (and if you can, the power currently generated from his panels) to even begin to suggest where to proceed next.

    And, in the end, conservation is going one the first investments that is usually made (lighting, pumping, electronics). In general, it costs much less to save a watt than it costs to generate, store, and inverter a watt (if that makes sense).

    Good Luck,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Basic Solar Help

    it is working, but it obviously isn't enough for your brother's needs. the batteries as mentioned may be in a discharged state and causing further problems with the system because more power is needed. if battery damage has occured the lack of battery power could possibly explain the shortness of the system's usable time frame and thusly its usable power. a voltmeter placed across the battery terminals will be an indicator of the condition and what battery voltage system is being used. the make and model numbers of the pvs, charge controller(s), batteries, and inverter make and model number(s) would be useful too, but most important your brother must know what his power needs are. after that is known he could then know what he's up against and how best to combat the power problems he has. of course smaller more modern tvs use less electric than past models as well as refrigs and other appliances are made with conservation in mind with some of the energy star stuff. now a common thing is to switch to compact flourescent lights (cfls) as they save huge amounts of electric over incandescents.
    it is quite possible that those that had the place before were able to make it work with what is there. their efforts may have been of more experienced renewable conservationists. we really don't know what else they may have had there too to produce power or conserve it. your brother is formally invited to pose his system layout here for our evaluation. he must also know what the loads are for a typical day that he'll need power for. itemizing each and how long used will give us a shot at the kwhrs needed for the loads and thusly for the pvs and wind genny if he has one. the more we know the more accurately we can say.