Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

2

Comments

  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    The Anaba Winery in Northern CA just installed one Skystream 3.7, put a picture of it on their label and declared how wonderfully green they are.

    http://www.energyboom.com/wind/anaba-wines-making-wine-wind-power

    They claim they will make 400 kWh/month though if you consider 5 m/s winds and a capacity factor of 35% it will probably be closer to 75 kWh/month.

    Of course that 75 depends on it working at all!

    Hope they didn't order too many of the labels with the turbine pictured on tehm!
  • WindsunWindsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    Their location is listed as "Poor to Marginal", and the tower is only 45 feet high - not 50 meters where the best wind speed is.

    So looks like more hype than reality. I guess it makes good ads for selling wine to yuppies.
  • Truth SquadTruth Squad Solar Expert Posts: 126 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    Article quote: "Anaba Wines founder and proprietor, John Sweazey, expects the turbine to cut the winery’s electrical costs from between 40 to 75 percent."

    Poppycock. That turbine doesn't provide enough power to do that, even if everything was 100%. Indeed, this is another example of "Greenwashing". More of the typical, "Look at us! We're green 'cause we say we are! Buy our wine because it's green!"

    See, this is the thing that happens when people just swallow the whole "Green" marketing campaign without looking at it objectively. People think that, why no, the manufacturers wouldn't inflate power production figures! And, no, the people looking to use the product to gussy up their own image wouldn't pull some ridiculous figure out of their back pocket to appeal to the gullible to buy based off what they claim they are instead of the QUALITY of the product they sell. As I have said before, you could take the SAME old TV dinner, slap a "Natural Sunshine All Natural" label on it, and sell it for $2.50 more than the same old product---and people will buy it and pay more because of that labeling!

    I mean, really, certain people will totally overlook the fact that Southwest Windpower has as an investor General Electric who manufactures nuclear reactors as well as and the quite-famous Minigun ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun ). Soooo....how "green" is GE really? These folks will think SWWP is all puppy-smooching, barefoot-n-bellbottoms, and eco-nifty but the truth is, it's all about the money. And money by any means possible. Also overlooked is the fact that SWWP has Chevron Oil as an investor. So, the same people criticizing the oil companies turn around and think SWWP are angels. Hilarious. PT Barnum was wrong. There's not a sucker born every minute. There's 25,000 of them born every second.
  • nurmomnurmom Registered Users Posts: 9
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    I would be curious to see some numbers form Anaba wines in a couple of months!

    Here in CT, winter winds have arrived, including a blizzard this past weekend.
    My grand total for the past 2 weeks has been 28 kWh !!!

    That makes my grand total for the past 10 months since install 297kWh. Basically, my 10 month total is what I expected for a low month!!

    I have been in contact with both my dealer and SWWP.
    I actually had a person in tech support tell me on 12/2 "your not in an area where we would recommend a Skystream". That was after a 10 min wind mapping session.
    So, why did this dealer sell me this product, if tech support could figure this out in 10 minutes!!
    I proceeded to send data logging for analysis to SWWP, only to emailed " everything is good with the turbine and it's simply a low wind site"

    I was in contact with the dealer, looking for removal and a refund of my $20,000 lawn ornament
    Here is his quote from an email yesterday:


    -Your decision on the placement of a wind generator has become a costly mistake. SWWP paid us (the dealer) on the sale of the generator. So they would have to fund the generator reimbursement, which they will not because it was determined to be working correctly. -

    I want to know why SWWP has dealers that are not honest about wind production. If tech support can be honest, why couldn't the dealer. It would have saved me $20,000 and many headaches! Doesn't the dealer work on behalf of SWWP? So shouldn't somebody step up to the plate! :grr
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,180 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament
    Dynamo said:

    The issue isn't just towers. The issue is manufacturers shortcutting and placing profits at all costs over quality and a reliable product..
    Putting a QUALITY, RELIABLE turbine on the top of that tower is the solution

    for more on this idea and why it does not happen, you want to read "CHEAP" by Ellen Ruppel Schell ISBN978-1-59420-215-5

    they will be available in Wallyworld soon...

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • BillFBillF Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    It takes just one turbine not spinning or underproducing to cast a pall over a local market area. If a dealer or installer wants to commit business suicide they will sell a turbine to anyone, anywhere, with a 33 or 45 foot tower. If they want to succeed they will walk away from a job or the turbine will go on a 60 or 70 foot tower if not taller. All of the SS3.7 units I have sold and installed are on towers over 60 feet. They are all producing very well. During recent high wind days I have gotten reports of daily production of 47kWh to 55kWh in one day from happy clients. All of the older units have been upgraded at the expense of SWWP and are functioning very well.

    Were mistakes made in design and marketing...yes and many of have paid a heavy price. But it now appears that the second generation SS3.7 is a good product. It is a learning experience that all small wind manufactures should pay attention to. There is no room for mistakes in this business. Some dealers refuse to learn and will be weeded out. The good ones will stay around.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,980 admin
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament
    BillF wrote: »
    During recent high wind days I have gotten reports of daily production of 47kWh to 55kWh in one day from happy clients. All of the older units have been upgraded at the expense of SWWP and are functioning very well.

    Is 55 kWhrs in one 24 hour period even possible... According to the specs. (PDF), that would require the winds to be almost exactly between 13-15 MPH to generate an average of:

    55kWhrs per day / 24 hours per day = 2.3 KWatts

    The unit is rated at a maximum of 2.4 kWatts peak in a relatively small band of wind.

    I guess it is possible...:confused:

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • nurmomnurmom Registered Users Posts: 9
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    BillF


    Where are you located? That's some pretty impressive numbers, 47 and 55kWh/day!

    Here's another piece from this week's email response from my dealer Skystream :
    -
    We are not liable for the decisions you made from the start of the installation. As I have stated in a previously sent email. We have another customer who has a Skystream installed on a 100' tower. His home is in the same wind zone as yours. His home is twice the size of yours and he has not had an electric bill since his installation in May 2009.
    I have the 45' monopole. This other Skystream, my dealer refers to is in Mass. My home requires 22-25 kWh/ day in the winter months. Double that in the summer when central air is going.

    So, HOW in the world could this customer in Mass, with the 100' tower have no electric bill for 8 months?
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    corporate hype tends to be cheap and even if one were to provide all of their own electrical needs, just being connected means you will get a bill.
    what does the size of a house have to do with how much electric is consumed as that is determined by the occupants usage not house size? maybe somebody should answer by saying they have a turbine that's half the size of theirs and produced more than their doa turbines?:confused::roll::p
  • BillFBillF Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    Regarding the 47kWh and 55kWh output in a one day period...the 55kWh reading came from the Skyview software record and the 47kWh reading came from a utility company supplied kWh meter mounted at the bottom of the tower. Both turbines are roughly 106 miles apart as the crow flies in the central part of Illinois. Both have some compromises in siting (trees/lot size) but many of those are diminished by the 70' tower height.

    Interestingly the unit that produced 47kWh had a tornado pass by within 50 feet of the tower base in August. The ground track was roughly 15 feet away from the gin pole anchor. No damage to the tower or turbine/blades. The tornado grew to EF3 and struck a nearby town.

    Again, the three keys to any good turbine installation is proper siting, proper wire size and a tall-tall-tall tower. Fortunately for me having the improved SS3.7 and utilizing those three keys have worked well. And in reality any good quality newer model turbine be it from Bergey, Iskra, Kestrel, Proven, SWWP and the like will do well when properly installed in a good site. I have installed all but the Iskra and Proven, built and flew a 1kW axial flux turbine some years ago (lasted two years until a lightning strike) and am comfortable in saying this.
  • Truth SquadTruth Squad Solar Expert Posts: 126 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    Well, Bill, I'm kinda amazed you've got those Skystreams on 70' towers, because the tallest tower SWWP provides is a 60' tower. And I understand that SWWP insists on selling Skystream as a total package of turbine, tower, and anchor bolt kit. If all the Skystreams you sell, Bill, are on towers over 60' but SWWP only provides a 60' tower at tallest, then what you're saying is SWWP is still not providing correct product here. Hmmmm.....

    Let's also let folks know what kind of price they're looking at here with a 60' tower. The 60' monopole tower costs $9099.00 from a large-volume dealer I pulled off the net. You're going to need a crane to install that baby, too. The Skystream is $6215.00 from this dealer. The wireless remote is $339.00 and, hilariously, this dealer doesn't even list the anchor bolt kit we know you need to install the tower. But, I happen to know the "Smart" bolt kit runs around $700, something like that. So, to get the performance 10' below what you're espousing here, Bill, a person must spend $16,353 not counting the installation. I know the installers don't work for free and concrete costs money, so, yes, we're real close to $20,000 out-the-door. Oh, but the tax credit, yes, how could I forget? Well, let's not forget that the Skystream payback period was tabulated before the price jumped to $20 G's. The thing has to crank out some kWh's to pay for itself even with tax credits. I've done the math before, Bill, as have many people. See, Bill, this thing started out to be a complete package---turbine, tower, and wireless remote all sold together. And the price then was $3,000. Don't believe me? Go find a National Geographic back issue titled "Peak Oil" and read all about it.

    Indeed, mistakes were made. But, see, those mistakes have human faces. Customers have had tremendous problems and are saddled with poor product. And 30 people lost their jobs. The thing about it, Bill, is none of these mistakes had to be made. Warnings were going out from people there from the beginning and those warnings went unheeded by management because management was in a huge rush to hype this product through a glitzy marketing campaign, take the company public and cash in their stock options and get rich quick. And because of that thinking, the customers suffered, dealers suffered, and the employees suffered. A mistake or an accident is when you do something wholly unintentional. But management made decisions that cost people their jobs. And none of those management officials paid any of the price. The customers and employees paid the price.

    I'm glad your customers are happy, Bill. But, it's a real shame that SWWP, once again, chose to use their customers are test subjects after having assured all of us that worked there that "We're going to do it RIGHT this time!" Yeah, and I can tell you exactly WHO there said that, too. I'm glad you're making a living at this, Bill. Because those of us who put in the sweat equity there for years no longer have jobs thanks to the "mistakes" of the people who weren't even there at the beginning of Skystream. And it's time that companies started making quality product from the beginning and not just because their little get-rich-quick stock option plan fell down around their ears and forced them to.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    Why would I "invest" ~$20k in a piece of hardware that has to live in a very harsh, kinetic environment, VERY high off the ground, subjected to lots of dynamic live loads, snow, rain, sleet, ice that at it's very best, ideal world puts out ~$7.50 worth of power? (50 kwh* $.15=$7.50) 200 days a year= $1500 yr. Historic track record that you would be lucky to have it withstand the elements for 10 year, costing $2k just to amortize? Doesn't make a lot of sense.


    I would bet you would be lucky to get half as much output net/net in a year.

    Tony
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    @BillF - You did mention very high winds for those days.

    The Skystream is rated at 1800 watts generation for 22 mph winds - storm conditions - also this is the max rating. Unusual conditions for anywhere in the US!

    At more normal annual average wind speeds (11 mph) which are even high for most of the country and considering a capacity factor you are lucky to get 100 kWh per month.

    Until dealers start being honest about production potential and not just talking about storm conditions (which your 50 kW days were achieved in) the business will not be earning a good name.
  • Truth SquadTruth Squad Solar Expert Posts: 126 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    Bill also fails to mention that if 33' and 45' towers are such a problem that impede having a quality installation, why does SWWP continue to sell them? I can tell you why: Because SWWP wants to SELL Skystreams to ANYONE who will buy one, including people who either won't buy a taller tower or height restrictions don't allow one. In fact, the ORIGINAL Skystream "package" back when it was still called "Storm" was with a 33' tower---period. The 45' towers came much later, the 60' towers even later than that. I'm especially interested in this statement Bill made:

    "If a dealer or installer wants to commit business suicide they will sell a turbine to anyone, anywhere, with a 33 or 45 foot tower. If they want to succeed they will walk away from a job or the turbine will go on a 60 or 70 foot tower if not taller."

    Wow, Bill, can I quote you as saying this statement is a solid SWWP official statement on Skystream installations? So, Bill, what you're saying here is SWWP, in effect, encourages "business suicide" by continuing to sell the 33' and 45' towers, is that right? And do you suppose SWWP is willing to walk away from sales that do not include a 60' or 70' tower? Hmmmm....that's not in accordance with the SWWP business plans I'm aware of. Their plans were growing the company and selling Skystreams and increasing volumes of Skystream sales each month. In fact, the yearly sales targets grew by quite a bit each year since the release of Skystream. You can't do that by refusing to sell Skystreams, you know.

    You see, Bill, you are correct. An ethical dealer will walk away from a sale that will lead to an unhappy customer. But the Southwest Windpower you're here extolling the virtues of doesn't believe in that. They believe in increasing sales volume. It was the loss of forecasted sales volumes that they'd already spent money on to shoot for that lead to the layoffs. They got overly optimistic, well, really, their sales forecasts were never based on reality, and the employees paid the price of those decisions. In a sense, they gambled and lost. To the best of my knowledge, this hasn't changed.

    So, when we see those 33' and 45' towers disappear from their inventory, then we'll believe in those quality installs. Dealers can't install what they don't have, and if they can't get a 70' tower from SWWP, how can they do an install like that? Oh, and, gosh, they spent a lot of money on 33' and 45' segmented towers coming out of China. Wonder why that was, when they should have been looking for a 70' tower? Suppose it could be because many places would require special permitting for towers that tall, and thus makes the sale more problematic? Interesting questions.
  • BillFBillF Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    Truth Squad...For one who claims to have worked for SWWP have you forgotten the 70' tilt up tower kit originally used for the Whisper 500 turbine?

    Please don't slam my opinions or my clients factual data. I respect your input and your experience in allegedly working for SWWP. And frankly I have stepped on a few toes at SWWP in the past during the SS3.7 shakeout. However I tell it like it is. They are getting a good amount of power and are pleased with their turbnes as they are currently configured.
  • Truth SquadTruth Squad Solar Expert Posts: 126 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    No, I haven't forgotten the guyed tower kits. But I also recall that they wanted to sell the monopole towers and that some thought there were oscillation issues with the guyed tower kits. I remember one guy had a problem with the Skystream and they thought it was the guyed tower kit at fault. And, as I said, they're still selling the 33' and 45' towers.

    I'm not "slamming" your opinions. I am also telling it like it is. I was there from the beginning of Skystream, even before it was called "Storm". That's how long I was there.

    Perhaps the "new" Skystream is better. But I wish I had $250 for every time I heard that while they were going through various software "upgrades" (i.e. software problems and supposed fixes.)

    Also, if SWWP had a shred of integrity, they'd hire back the people they laid off instead of going and getting new people.
  • BillFBillF Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    @russ; You are correct that the SS3.7 produces 1.8kW at 22mph which averages out to 43kWh per day. And btw the SS3.7 will produce over 2.4kW. And yes high wind days produce the best power. That goes for any turbine not just the Skystream. My point is this and this goes for any turbine...that siting and tower height is the determining factor between a good install or a less than desirable one (usually leading to customer complaints). I have one SS 3.7 unit on a 70' tower that has seen well over 600kWh in a month during winter. It is located on prairie flat land with minimal obstruction for miles. I have a client with Bergey 10kW on a 140' tower that will see over 2,000kWh in a month this winter. I also have SS3.7 turbines located at what I would consider somewhat compromised sites that will average 300kWh per month. All on 70' towers. Imagine what they would produce using a 33' or 45' tower.
  • BillFBillF Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    @Truth Squad; I do feel that many dealers went into this, thinking get rich quick. My motives were different. I think renewable energy is the right thing to use. Even now I hear of competitors that still tell customers they will get 400kWh per month using a 33' tower and they will hang up on me when I tell them they will be disappointed thinking I am trying to "upsell" them. And when the attorney general gets the complaint letter from them...the customer is always right and the dealer misled them. Many of those dealers will be weeded out eventually.

    I feel that a company's best asset are their employees and I feel bad that you were laid off and have not been rehired. It is a terrrible thing for this to have happened even in good economic times. I hope you can redirect your energies to starting a company that will provide good products and services.
  • Truth SquadTruth Squad Solar Expert Posts: 126 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    Well, Bill, I commend you for being an ethical dealer. It's not just me that lost my job here. There were 29 other people; many of whom had been with the company for ten years.

    I'd love to start a company. Unfortunately, you need money to do that. This layoff has been very hard on my family financially. You know, there were times at SWWP when we stuck by the company in the company's hard times. There were a couple points where if we had walked, the entire company would have collapsed. How pathetic that the company could not repay that loyalty to those employees. I was told when I was laid off, "It's nothing personal; it's just business." Yeah, well, you can't pay bills with words like that. Words like that are insulting. The company loved to tell us "We're one big family here..." but when it comes to the cash, it's just business. Words are cheap. We were told by the CEO when we were laid off, "We're going to try and get you back as soon as we can." But when they got a few million dollars in investment money from GE, they made it a point to tell our local paper, "That doesn't mean we're going to bring back any of the laid-off employees." Right. Instead, they hired a bunch of new people, later on. It isn't "personal"? I beg to differ. I know SWWP reads this forum. Well, SWWP, why don't you, for once, do what's morally and ethically right for a change? You're so worried about what people say about you here, well, how do you correct that? By doing RIGHT and NOT WRONG. What the heck is so hard to understand about that???
  • WindsunWindsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament
    BillF wrote: »
    ...I hear of competitors that still tell customers they will get 400kWh per month using a 33' tower and they will hang up on me when I tell them they will be disappointed thinking I am trying to "upsell" them....

    We have had the same experience. In a couple of cases, they even expected us to fix the problems that we specifically warned them about - after they bought from another dealer. In one case, the tower was almost 2 degrees off of verticle because the dealer or customer did not follow the instructions and tried to get off on the cheap.

    To be totally honest - not all of the problems are from SWWP - a lot of them are from dealers out to make a quick buck, or dealers that don't really know what they are doing (or both). And a lot of it comes from customers that insist that they really DO get 30 knot winds every day :p
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    I agree the real issue is dealers installing them where and how they shouldn't. We have 2 dealers here in Maine selling them one uses the shortest mono pole from swwp and puts them anywhere people have money. the other is installing them on 80ft tilt up towers and there customers seem happy so far.

    I will say as well SWWP has no concern for the end user it is all dollars and cents for them and that may be why we have so many dealer issues you wouldn't see Bergey dealers working like this very long before Mike rattled some heads together.
  • nurmomnurmom Registered Users Posts: 9
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    So, if they are Skystream dealers selling the product to the consumer, at what point does SWWP step up and hold their dealers responsible for selling the product where their is either ' insufficient wind" or 33', 45' or 60' monopole towers. Especially, why does SWWP continue to offer the 33' and 45' towers if they are such a problem!?:grr

    Here's another gem from an email a few weeks ago from my dealer:

    We recommended a taller tower due to this contour on their property. They insisted that the 45' tower would be fine since the towers location would be installed in an area where there were not any trees within 300' of the said location. Besides zoning restrained them from installing a tower higher than 45'

    So, if the zoning board wouldn't allow us to go taller, SHOULDN"T the dealer have told us it would not be worthwhile.:grr:confused:
  • BillFBillF Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    This thread is now starting down a new path... Many reputable wind turbine mfg market shorter towers. Bergey, Iskra, Kestrel, SWWP etc all have 30 to 40 foot towers for some of their turbines. And that is not to say that they will not work in the most perfect of wind regime sites. But it falls on the end user or dealer to make sure a turbine goes on the most appropriate tower and the best site available. Some folks feel that anything is better than nothing and will initially want or accept a turbine on a short tower but is has been my experience that buyers remorse will overcome good will down the road.
  • Truth SquadTruth Squad Solar Expert Posts: 126 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    Got news for everyone. When I was at SWWP, they would sign up anyone as a dealer. Their distributors would also sign up people as dealers and SWWP wouldn't even know they were dealers until the customer told them! People became dealers without having to attend the dealer training. In other words, they had zero experience in installing a Skystream---the customer became the graphic training aid. This may have changed now. But I do know some of the people they signed up as dealers in 2006-2008 did some terrible installs. One including a tower crammed into packed soil. Another bolted the tower directly on to the concrete pad without use of the standoff nuts and cracked the foundation. These guys remained dealers, too, even knowing that. Again, this may have changed. But as I have said before, a reputable dealer is worth every penny he charges over the eBay fly-by-night cheapies' quotes.
  • WattWatt Solar Expert Posts: 32
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament
    Got news for everyone. When I was at SWWP, they would sign up anyone as a dealer. Their distributors would also sign up people as dealers and SWWP wouldn't even know they were dealers until the customer told them! People became dealers without having to attend the dealer training. In other words, they had zero experience in installing a Skystream---the customer became the graphic training aid. This may have changed now. But I do know some of the people they signed up as dealers in 2006-2008 did some terrible installs. One including a tower crammed into packed soil. Another bolted the tower directly on to the concrete pad without use of the standoff nuts and cracked the foundation. These guys remained dealers, too, even knowing that. Again, this may have changed. But as I have said before, a reputable dealer is worth every penny he charges over the eBay fly-by-night cheapies' quotes.

    Truth Squad

    I'll have to agree with everything you've said by default. Nothing but disappointment from Skystream in my area. Nothing but bad business dealings all over after all, look at their installations. This dealer does business out of different town about 80 or 100 miles northeast. Check this one out. I was even on a hill about as tall as the house when I snapped this photo. This generator vibrates frantically with turbulence, but only, of course, with high winds. As you see there, hardly spins and not from lack of wind but from poor installation. Just over the trees. I bet this one will not be standing this time next year. Bearings will be destroyed.
  • WattWatt Solar Expert Posts: 32
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament
    BillF wrote: »
    This thread is now starting down a new path... Many reputable wind turbine mfg market shorter towers. Bergey, Iskra, Kestrel, SWWP etc all have 30 to 40 foot towers for some of their turbines. And that is not to say that they will not work in the most perfect of wind regime sites. But it falls on the end user or dealer to make sure a turbine goes on the most appropriate tower and the best site available. Some folks feel that anything is better than nothing and will initially want or accept a turbine on a short tower but is has been my experience that buyers remorse will overcome good will down the road.

    Wow....

    Truthfully, due diligence has steered me completely free of folks such as yourself. Proper customer service would eliminate any need for statements such as yours "buyer remorse down the road". It's up to you to inform the uninformed. Had a sale not been made the above statement would lack experience. Only when every option has been explained should blame be passed on.
  • BillFBillF Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    @watt...I was speaking from what I am seeing from comments made on this board and others. All of my clients with Skystream units are currently satisfied customers. One even e-mailed me today to tell me he as generated 49kWh today. My purpose on this thread was to highlight how important it is for dealers/installers to do their job right the first time. Consumer education is one part of the process.
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    This makes me think of discussing a bearing failure in a large compressor with the Sales dept - they never had any according to them.

    We explained to Sales that we had personally had such a case happen so at that point they talked to the Service department who said - it does happen. The salesmen were not lying - just intentionally staying uninformed.

    ****************

    The individual dealer has to find a reputable manufacturer to represent. Not try to straighten out a mess which the company may or may not really be interested in.

    This is not the only site where Skystream has earned a bad name that İ doubt they ever get rid of.
  • WattWatt Solar Expert Posts: 32
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament
    BillF wrote: »
    @watt...I was speaking from what I am seeing from comments made on this board and others. All of my clients with Skystream units are currently satisfied customers. One even e-mailed me today to tell me he as generated 49kWh today. My purpose on this thread was to highlight how important it is for dealers/installers to do their job right the first time. Consumer education is one part of the process.

    Accumulated:roll:

    I don't know and will never know for sure total numbers generated from your customers but, I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately for the man owning the equipment pictured above, he generates more in the winter so far. Thank god for the wind and, no leaves. He is not under any zoning ordinances, he was just sold what they had in stock and not offered anything else. We poor gullible customers should have known better.

    On more point, thanks to the selfless training of folks like truth squad and others, I'm not in this guys boat or dealing with the likes of these mentioned dead beats. Have you, BillF, said something to SWWP about these complaints you've read or have you, BillF, researched SWWP yourself? Or, did you become their dealer knowing what they had done in the past with the mentality of and to reform their image?
  • BillFBillF Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
    Re: Skystream--$20,000 lawn ornament

    Winter winds are always better as a rule in the midwest. Higher speeds and colder, denser air. As far as kWh produced, I don't doubt him. He has three ways of validating his output. Yesterday I was able to run my household, do several loads of laundry, watch TV and work on the desktop plus lighting etc with energy produced from my little Kestrel 220. And no sunshine at all. Today...no wind yet and 2" of snow covering the PV panels and no hope of sunshine. Bummer.

    I have sold products from SWWP for many years and have used them on a personal basis and experienced some problems. I have sold and installed other brands too. They have had their share of problems. In fact every turbine manufacture has its share of problems. I did stop offering the SS3.7 while the problems with them were sorted out. And I told interested clients why. However I do feel that SWWP has made changes in the Skystream 3.7 that make it a good product offering at this time. I have no doubt in the years down the road the turbines will require some maintenance work. That goes for all wind turbines regardless of brand. There is no such thing as a no maintenance wind turbine. No matter what any manufacture states.
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