Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
Does anyone here have experience with this pump?

http://www.lainginc.com/pdf/LTID5solar.pdf

It has a built in :confused: MPPT capability...

Eric
 
KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada

Comments

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    interesting. although i'm not a pump expert, i see some things that make me wonder.
    1> with a 12v to 24v range this leaves out both nominal 12v and 24v battery setups as 12v batteries can fall below 12v and 24v batteries can go above 24v.
    2> with a 230 degrees temperature on some models says that this is capable of running with steam being above the boiling point meaning it can pump a gas.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    As for your first point, it sounds like it will run on any voltage from ~12-24 nom. Many other pumps including the shurflo 9300 series will run just fine as low as ~10 vdc, but will pump twice as much water at 24 vdc.

    Water under pressure can be considerably above 212f without boiling, so it sounds like you could use it for a hot water heating system that runs at temps up to 230f (~20psi)
    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html

    Tony
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,022 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    Only has a 12' max head. That's not going to pump from the basement to the rooftop solar collector.

    i think these are made to be in a batteryless system, just a PV panel.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    Mike,

    I saw that it only has 12' of head, but when I looked at the spec and saw a much higher psi (~250?) I thought that the 12' might be what the pump would "suck" from, not what it would push to. Someone will have to look into it a bit more.

    Tony
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    i have to go by it says and it does not say nominally. they specified the range in black and white and if it was capable of more then they should've put it in there to reflect the true range. not a good marketing practice on their part. there's just a gut feeling that i don't trust it. i hope i'm wrong.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    Mike got it right ... from the first page:

    The first DC spherical motor pump for direct
    connection to photovoltaic panels
    with automatic
    performance optimization using
    Maximum Power Point (MPP) tracking

    that is the point I noticed first, direct connection, NO CC needed.

    second the low lift... BUT in a closed loop system the fluid is already at height X and the pump really only has to improve on the heat syphon effect "pumping"or pushing from the lowest point, it is kind of like the static level of a well... lift is only from that elevation not the bottom of the well... at least that is my story...

    As to Tonys point on volume moved, it is about the size of an orange, fitting in the palm of a hand. pretty compact. the D5 720 is only 2.5 inches across the top

    Note the low Amperage drawn!

    I will see if they can answer the lift question directly

    here is a more readable PDF for the specs;)

    http://www.oberread.com/Download%20Files/D5_Solar.pdf

    HTH

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • stephendvstephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    Conceptually a direct powered DC pump is such a nice idea - the more sun there is, the hotter the water is, the more power the PV generates so the faster the pump turns.

    I wonder if you sized the PV just right where you could even run the system without a temperature difference controller?
  • peakbaggerpeakbagger Solar Expert Posts: 341 ✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    I have a dc pump direct connected to DC PV panel for my SHW system. I started out without a temperature controller, but soon switched to an Artech DC controller as I found that on cold days, the pump would run long before the panel warmed up in the AM, therefore dropping the temp in my storage rather than raising it. I have a Laing pump sitting in a box to replace my current March pump when it dies or I have the system drained.

    As discussed the pump is circulation pump. Pumps are usually rated for feet of head as hyrdraulic folks use feet of head instead of PSI. Divide by 2.31 for 60 F water to get PSI. The pumps use is to overcome the friction in the piping and equipment, not to lift a fluid from one elevation to another. If one insists and they have a flooded suction, the circ pump can pump up the distance in feet on the pump curve assuming the piping is real big so there is no significant contribution from pipe friction. The pumps needs flow to keep cool, so the worse thing to do is try to pump higher than the pump curve, as the pump will be unable to flow any liquid and will instead heat up.

    The 150 PSI rating is the maximum pressure the casting will survive before leaking. Generally a SHW system is pressurized with a seperate pump usually called a charge pump, that is only needed when the system is set up and subsequently if there are leaks or someone deliberately drains the system down. The charge pump is rarely included with the system, so the typical homeowner would have to buy one or have a pro do a refill. I am not aware of any dual purpose pump that would work well as both a charge and circulation pump as the operating requirements are quite different.

    A frequent problem with "orphan" systems is the new owner trying to run at low pressures which can lead to fluid boiling in the collectors, which leads to glycol breakdown (going acidic) and pressure relief valves popping off.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    Peakbagger, what about the non pressurized systems? Are they less efficient at collection? seems they would have a lot less issues with over pressure as the excess would go into an overflow tank or ?...

    Also sounds like larger piping is desirable to lower friction losses.

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • peterakopeterako Solar Expert Posts: 144 ✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    Hi there that looks nice but expensive + 250$ + solar panel.

    I am using a Grundfoss Alpha 2 in my setup it is started by a off the self differential temperature controller, and running between 5 to 7 Watt 230 V. My setup cost is around 180$ ( pump plus controller ).

    See the link to the pump http://www.energyproject.com/
    The controller is a very simple unit from the plumber two temp. sensors one on the panel and one on the storage adjustable diff. and start temp settings plus a setting if the temp. from the panel is below freezing (adjustable) it stats the pump to avoid freezing up. and in the winter my central heating ( and yes there i have also replaced to a alpha 2 pump) is working and providing if required extra heat to the storage so i am not missing this little heat and have a simple setup.

    Greetings From Greece8)
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    thanks Peterako, a good link to Grundfos. substantial energy reduction by using their new pumps vs old.

    did your plumber 'make' the temp differential sensor setup or is it 'stock/ off the shelf'?

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • peterakopeterako Solar Expert Posts: 144 ✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    Hi eric.
    See the link this is the simple version not having a freezing protection.
    i am not sure if my version is still in production ( i keep a spare one ). And it is not the company the i use to buy ( to expensive ) but there is a nice English PDF file.

    http://www2.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/175000-199999/191253-an-01-en-TOWITEK_DIFFERENZTEMPERATUR_STEUERMODUL.pdf

    It is simple and works i use a second one to open a electronic valve if the temp. in the storage drops low and heating is on to keep warm from my central heating. setting 40 degree Celsius ( around 104 F ) so i never have cold water.

    Greetings from Greece8)
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    I found it on both Conrads British and International site. still available.

    Interestingly they want 14.95 Euro and 14.95 GBP... + shipping

    Hmm looks like cheaper to buy it from the International site.

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump
    westbranch wrote: »
    Peakbagger, what about the non pressurized systems? Are they less efficient at collection? seems they would have a lot less issues with over pressure as the excess would go into an overflow tank or ?...

    Also sounds like larger piping is desirable to lower friction losses.

    Eric

    Drain back systems are just as efficient at collecting energy as the pressurized systems, with less maintenance, no antifreeze to replace every few years, no worries of high pressure. When max or min temps. are reached the pump shuts down and all water drains back to the storage tank.
    The only draw back is a high head pump ( higher energy use) and larger tubing are required. Initial installation is also critical to make sure all lines have sufficient slope back to the tank so no water is left in the lines to prevent freezing. All a small price to pay for increased longevity of the system.
  • peterakopeterako Solar Expert Posts: 144 ✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    Lucman i agree

    Put i am in area where the temp. drop around 10 to 12 days a year to freezing point.
    So i use antifreeze and using that i have only 1 or 2 nights that i protect the collector and piping by running the pump. and when i say running the pump as soon as that the temp. sensor is 10 degree up the pump stops and based on the high insulation it does not drop fast.
    If i have low temp. like this it is always snowing so i avoid snow build up.;)

    If you are in a area with high and long freezing temp. use drain back.

    Greetings from Greece
  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump
    peterako wrote: »
    Lucman i agree

    Put i am in area where the temp. drop around 10 to 12 days a year to freezing point.
    So i use antifreeze and using that i have only 1 or 2 nights that i protect the collector and piping by running the pump. and when i say running the pump as soon as that the temp. sensor is 10 degree up the pump stops and based on the high insulation it does not drop fast.
    If i have low temp. like this it is always snowing so i avoid snow build up.;)

    If you are in a area with high and long freezing temp. use drain back.

    Greetings from Greece

    Are you using evacuated tubes or flat plate collectors?
    And I thought in Greece it was always warm and never snowed!:D
  • peterakopeterako Solar Expert Posts: 144 ✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    I am using Simple flat plate collectors, the vacuum type is also on the market, but the price is not realistic.

    And yes Greece has every year snow, not close by the touristic areas, but close by Athens 2 Hour drive there is 1 of the 8 eight good size ski areas. Just above the famous delfous Archeological site. Snow falls in general above 1000M i am at 220M above sea level.

    Greetings from Greece8)
  • blackswan555blackswan555 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭
    Re: Laing D5 Ecocirc pump

    Nice link on the pumps, Thanks for that !

    Have a good one
    Tim

    Greetings from Ibiza
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