Batteries not able to reach EQ voltage

aaarneson

I was having some problems with doing an equalization charge.  

I started it and it was using generator(starting 4kw, running 3.2kw at 7500ft) but it was coming in as only about 1.5kw of power and was not getting to the 64.8v needed to do the equalization charge.  It got up to about 63.2 but then dropped down to 62.3 for most of the time and had about 1.0kw coming in.  So I stopped. Then tried to use the PV array instead since it was a bright sunny day...and appeared there was enough power there.  It would start out pushing up the voltage to around 64v but then go down to 58-59v  I noticed the watts coming in from the array were going up to around 2kw then stop and go down to zero....then build back up to around 2kw and then back down to zero, over and over.

Dave Angelini

Without more info it sounds to me like a bad cell breaking down or unhealthy.

 You are new and welcome but would be nice to have make of equipment, how old, etc. The where when why details and what make/model of battery.

aaarneson

Sorry about that...I had all that information ready to go and forgot to paste it in.  It is a vacation home so not used a whole lot.  The system is about 3 years old.  All outback gear.  Also spoke to trojan to see if it was a bad battery.  Checked voltage and SG and all seem to be good.  They were under the impression it was not the battery.

FlexPower One
Mate3s
FlexNet DC
FlexMax 80
FXR3048A-01
(8) 6-Volt Trojan SPRE 06 415 - 48v
(9) Canadian Solar 320w solar panel

aaarneson

Also just another tidbit I have reached out to Outback.  They want me to get OpticsRE setup...just got Starlink installed 2 days ago.  I need a wifi adapter for it and won't be back to get that installed for another couple of weeks or so.  I wanted to just see if there is anything to check before I head back home in AZ...This solar system is in SW Colorado.

Dave Angelini

Try it again! See if you can get an hour solid above 62V. Watch the temp or feel the terminals. Wear safety glasses. Have someone else there. EQ can be very dangerous! Good Luck! Get Optics!!! below is the Schneider version insight.

aaarneson

I won't be able to test again until I come back in 2-3 weeks.  I will hopefully get OpticsRE setup then too!

I was able to get it over 62V for over an hour with the generator a couple of days ago.  Got it up to about 63.3-5 or so then it dropped to about 62.2 after about 30 minutes and then stayed at just above 62V for that last 30 minutes or so.  When it was at the 63.3-5V generator was coming in at 1300-1500w.  When at 62V+ the generator was steady at about 1000w.  But I didn't check the temps to see what was happening there.

Also tried with PV and that was no help....just kept fluctuating between 0-2000+ watts and 58V to 64V+...

Dave Angelini

If you have good SG on all cells, it sounds like you need more time in EQ. Run an hour, rest an hour. Run again.  THE BATTERY MUST BE FULLY CHARGED BEFORE EQ!  Roger?  One way to do this is to use both solar and gen. Set the solar .3 v above the setting for the outback charger setting. This will save some fuel and insure that the charge is steady. Use a 2nd source VM for the reading in case your V reading is off.

aaarneson

Batteries were at 100% when I started the EQ.  When I ran both Generator and PV array it did the strange fluctuating that it did when running the PV Array alone to do the EQ charge.

"Set the solar .3 v above the setting for the outback charger setting."  - Not sure where or how to do this.

"Use a 2nd source VM for the reading in case your V reading is off."  - That is a good point.

SumPower

aaarneson said:

"Set the solar .3 v above the setting for the outback charger setting."  - Not sure where or how to do this.

"Use a 2nd source VM for the reading in case your V reading is off."  - That is a good point.

On the Mate3s, push the lock button, and enter the password.

At the main menu, go to "settings", Then to "Charge Controller", then to "Battery Equalize". Set your equalization voltage there.

 I think since you have a 48 Vdc battery bank that the voltage difference will need to be .4Vdc above the setting of the inverter charger setting? As the settings are in .2 or .4 Vdc increments. Not positive about that, but it is the way I remember it.

Press up to go back to "settings", then go to "inverter", then arrow down to "battery equalize" and check that the voltage is less here by the .4Vdc than it is on the charge controller.

BB.

Do you have a hydrometer of some sort... EQ is "complete" when measuring the SG every 30-60 minutes, the EQ stops rising on all cells (typically there will be a few "low SG cells", and a few normal to "high" SG cells).

When the SG stops rising, then the SG numbers are you new 100% full SG values (note specific gravity needs to be temperature corrected).

This is a nice hydrometer:

https://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-battery-hydrometer.html

And you can use the standard glass tube+glass float type too (be careful... More that a few people have had the glass hydrometers roll off the table and shatter). After you are done, rinse the hydrometer out well with distilled water (floats can stick if the electrolyte "dries out").

Ideally, the difference between high and low SG cells should be 0.015 or less... And EQ performed if cells are 0.030 or greater spread between high and low SG cells.

Also, if you are getting around 2.5 to 5% EQ current, your system is doing fine (I.e., 100 AH would be 2.5 to 5.0 amps EQ charging). When EQ charging most of the energy (voltage*current) goes into heating the batteries and gassing (hydrogen+oxygen gasses). At 5% rate EQ charging, it is pretty easy to overheat the FLA batteries after a few hours of EQ charging.

-Bill

aaarneson

SumPower said:

aaarneson said:

"Set the solar .3 v above the setting for the outback charger setting."  - Not sure where or how to do this.

"Use a 2nd source VM for the reading in case your V reading is off."  - That is a good point.

On the Mate3s, push the lock button, and enter the password.

At the main menu, go to "settings", Then to "Charge Controller", then to "Battery Equalize". Set your equalization voltage there.

 I think since you have a 48 Vdc battery bank that the voltage difference will need to be .4Vdc above the setting of the inverter charger setting? As the settings are in .2 or .4 Vdc increments. Not positive about that, but it is the way I remember it.

Press up to go back to "settings", then go to "inverter", then arrow down to "battery equalize" and check that the voltage is less here by the .4Vdc than it is on the charge controller.

Ok.  I did do that.  Both were at 64.8 now the inverter is at 64.4

aaarneson

BB. said:

Do you have a hydrometer of some sort... EQ is "complete" when measuring the SG every 30-60 minutes, the EQ stops rising on all cells (typically there will be a few "low SG cells", and a few normal to "high" SG cells).

When the SG stops rising, then the SG numbers are you new 100% full SG values (note specific gravity needs to be temperature corrected).

This is a nice hydrometer:

https://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-battery-hydrometer.html

And you can use the standard glass tube+glass float type too (be careful... More that a few people have had the glass hydrometers roll off the table and shatter). After you are done, rinse the hydrometer out well with distilled water (floats can stick if the electrolyte "dries out").

Ideally, the difference between high and low SG cells should be 0.015 or less... And EQ performed if cells are 0.030 or greater spread between high and low SG cells.

Also, if you are getting around 2.5 to 5% EQ current, your system is doing fine (I.e., 100 AH would be 2.5 to 5.0 amps EQ charging). When EQ charging most of the energy (voltage*current) goes into heating the batteries and gassing (hydrogen+oxygen gasses). At 5% rate EQ charging, it is pretty easy to overheat the FLA batteries after a few hours of EQ charging.

-Bill

Thanks Bill...that hydrometer is the one I am using.  I did talk to Trojan and I did learn that .030 that is needed is specifically to each individual battery.  I was using that measurement in regards to the entire battery bank.  

So technically I didn't need to do an EQ charge.

I try to grasp everything but there is still a lot to learn.  One day I will have the lifepo4.  😁

JRHill

aaarneson said:

Sorry about that...I had all that information ready to go and forgot to paste it in.  It is a vacation home so not used a whole lot.  The system is about 3 years old.  All outback gear.  Also spoke to trojan to see if it was a bad battery.  Checked voltage and SG and all seem to be good.  They were under the impression it was not the battery.

FlexPower One
Mate3s
FlexNet DC
FlexMax 80
FXR3048A-01
(8) 6-Volt Trojan SPRE 06 415 - 48v
(9) Canadian Solar 320w solar panel

I'd really recommend adding the remote temperature sensor to the system. It's not that expensive and will help by adjusting the charging voltages during hot and cold weather.

aaarneson

JRHill said:

aaarneson said:

Sorry about that...I had all that information ready to go and forgot to paste it in.  It is a vacation home so not used a whole lot.  The system is about 3 years old.  All outback gear.  Also spoke to trojan to see if it was a bad battery.  Checked voltage and SG and all seem to be good.  They were under the impression it was not the battery.

FlexPower One
Mate3s
FlexNet DC
FlexMax 80
FXR3048A-01
(8) 6-Volt Trojan SPRE 06 415 - 48v
(9) Canadian Solar 320w solar panel

I'd really recommend adding the remote temperature sensor to the system. It's not that expensive and will help by adjusting the charging voltages during hot and cold weather.

I believe I have a sensor on the top 4 batteries and 1 on the bottom 4

SumPower

aaarneson said:

SumPower said:

aaarneson said:

"Set the solar .3 v above the setting for the outback charger setting."  - Not sure where or how to do this.

"Use a 2nd source VM for the reading in case your V reading is off."  - That is a good point.

On the Mate3s, push the lock button, and enter the password.

At the main menu, go to "settings", Then to "Charge Controller", then to "Battery Equalize". Set your equalization voltage there.

 I think since you have a 48 Vdc battery bank that the voltage difference will need to be .4Vdc above the setting of the inverter charger setting? As the settings are in .2 or .4 Vdc increments. Not positive about that, but it is the way I remember it.

Press up to go back to "settings", then go to "inverter", then arrow down to "battery equalize" and check that the voltage is less here by the .4Vdc than it is on the charge controller.

Ok.  I did do that.  Both were at 64.8 now the inverter is at 64.4

Just remember when you do equalizing with the generator running, to change the inverter equalize voltage setting to the Vdc needed to equalize the batterries.

aaarneson

SumPower said:

aaarneson said:

SumPower said:

aaarneson said:

"Set the solar .3 v above the setting for the outback charger setting."  - Not sure where or how to do this.

"Use a 2nd source VM for the reading in case your V reading is off."  - That is a good point.

On the Mate3s, push the lock button, and enter the password.

At the main menu, go to "settings", Then to "Charge Controller", then to "Battery Equalize". Set your equalization voltage there.

 I think since you have a 48 Vdc battery bank that the voltage difference will need to be .4Vdc above the setting of the inverter charger setting? As the settings are in .2 or .4 Vdc increments. Not positive about that, but it is the way I remember it.

Press up to go back to "settings", then go to "inverter", then arrow down to "battery equalize" and check that the voltage is less here by the .4Vdc than it is on the charge controller.

Ok.  I did do that.  Both were at 64.8 now the inverter is at 64.4

Just remember when you do equalizing with the generator running, to change the inverter equalize voltage setting to the Vdc needed to equalize the batterries.

I will try to remember that.

So is that why the PV array kept going up and down over and over cause the inverter setting for EQ was not .4vdc less than the charge controller?

SumPower

No practical experience with an FXR3048A-01. Maybe some else will be able to answer that.

I don't use a generator.  Either the charge controller set to EQ Vdc or the Inverter set to EQ Vdc, but not both at the same time.

You may want to check your absorb voltages also. The charge controller absorb voltage needs to be set to the battery manufacturers recommended voltage for absorb and the inverter absorb voltage needs to be .4Vdc below that if you are mainly using the solar to charge the batteries. That way the charge controller will always have priority over the inverter/generator.