Conext 4024 generator drops out when well pump is running

kjfitzaz
kjfitzaz Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
I live off-grid (19 years) and have a Schneider Context 4024 inverter.  Whenever my generator is running and the well pump goes on the generator kicks out.  I'm using a 4000 watt portable generator on a 30 amp circuit.  My well pump draws 1800 watts.  If the generator is not running everything works fine.  My previous inverter was a Xantrex SW4024 and did not have this problem.  Reading the manual it seems like it my have to do with Load Shaving or A/C Support but I tried turning the Load Shaving off but there is no difference. Any ideas on whats going on? Thanks

Comments

  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Well pump is 120 vac right?  Try lowering AC breaker setting.

     The  xantrex 4024 was a single 120vac and now you have split phase 120/240.  The new inverter is not going to have the same 120 output as your old one.  The genset will run the will pump directly correct?
    Good Luck!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • kjfitzaz
    kjfitzaz Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
    The well pump runs fine when the genset is off.  Yes the well pump will work fine off the genset alone.  The problem only happens if the generator is running even is I disable the charger in the inverter.   The well pump draws 15 amps. 
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I assume the well pump is 120vac ? I need the answers or I just guess and then give up.  XW 4024 was a single unit not stacked?
    Did you try what I suggested?
    You are right you probably will have to experiment with AC support or load shave. 

    Might not be around for a few days, everyone is shoveling snow. Even east of San Diego
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • ELYNN4
    ELYNN4 Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭
    Try setting your charge rate to 50%.  If it carries the load you can increase the charge rate in increments, or lower the charge rate until it does carry the generator.
    Off Grid, 4.5KW array, 9&6KW Gens, 6848XW inverter, Midnite Classic 150, 2 strings - 48V - Trojan FLA L16 2V, located in Talkeetna, Alaska
  • kjfitzaz
    kjfitzaz Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
    Even when I disable the charger it still kicks out.
  • Horsefly
    Horsefly Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭✭✭
    I have a SW4024 Inverter as well, and have had a few issues when running a generator with it. One was associated with the 4024 charger conflicting with the solar charge controller, so that doesn't correspond to your issue. The other problem I had was pretty close to yours, in that the inverter would simply cut out (but not when a particular load was on).  I think I've decided that the main problem was that our generator was pretty cheap, and puts out a pretty horrible modified sine wave.   

    We almost never use the generator, so I've not spent lots of time trying to figure it out, and we certainly are not going to buy a better one since it would just sit there >99% of the time, never running.  If I were doing the whole system again, I would have probably get an inverter generator with a nice clean waveform.
    Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 8S (25.6V), 230Ah Eve LiFePO4 battery in a custom insulated and heated case.
  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    Schneider Context 4024 inverter is 4kW to 240vac.  You won't get full power to single 120vac phase.  It is the pump's 120vac start surge current that is getting you.

    Xantrex SW4024 is 4kW to 120vac

    Most pump motors can be rewired to run on 240vac or 120vac.  Some have a simple dial switch to do so.  Instructions is in pump manual.  Look it up on-line if you have lost manual.

  • Horsefly
    Horsefly Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭✭✭
    RCinFLA said:
    Schneider Context 4024 inverter is 4kW to 240vac.  You won't get full power to single 120vac phase.  It is the pump's 120vac start surge current that is getting you.

    You're right, and that was one of my worries since our biggest load is a 120V 1/2hp well pump, which I would assume is the same thing the is talking about. However, in the 5+ years we've had the CSW4024 installed it has never had an issue with starting and running the well pump.

    Although I'm critical of Schneider on some things (not DIY friendly, nothing has a Bluetooth interface, etc.), they seem to be capable of exceeding their published specs, which isn't that common with most other manufacturers.
    Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 8S (25.6V), 230Ah Eve LiFePO4 battery in a custom insulated and heated case.
  • kjfitzaz
    kjfitzaz Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
    My well pump is a Grundfos deep well pump with a slow srart 240 volt motor so surge is not the issue.  My generator is an inverter generator.  My previous inverter was Xantrex SW4024 and no issues for 15 years.  
    Thanks for all the help.   I'll keep working on this until i figure it out. 
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2023 #11
    kjfitzaz said:
    Even when I disable the charger it still kicks out.
    So the well runs fine if the genset is off but kicks out when gen is on?

    Your old XW 4024 was stacked or had a transformer to run this 240vac well, Correct?

    This is a weird one so the more info the better!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • kjfitzaz
    kjfitzaz Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
    Just one SW4024 and a transformer to the well pump.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Thx !   Are you using a 240VAC genset or just L1 on csw4024?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • kjfitzaz
    kjfitzaz Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
    Just L1 120vac 30 amp.  I've been experimenting today.  I put a clamp meter on the inverter output.  With only the well pump running it reads about 13 amps.  As soon as the generator qualifes it kicks out whether the charger is enabled or not.  I then tried with only the microwave.   It reads 12 amps and everything works fine.  With the generator off, I can run the microwave and the pump with no problems.  So I'm stumped.  
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2023 #15
    Lower the 30 A on CSW to 15A and test. The CSW is being imbalanced by what you are doing to it. Your old XW was much better for this as it was a 60A transfer switch and a much better source of 120vac.  You just have to find the sweet spot.

    There might not be a sweet spot depending on your loads or, you will have to get a 240V genset.

    There was a good reason that your old XW had an 80 pound toroid transformer in it. It is almost impossible in get imbalanced. Too bad they stopped selling the 24V version of XW.
    Good Luck !
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • kjfitzaz
    kjfitzaz Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
    I'll try that.  Thanks for the help. I do miss my old xw.
  • kjfitzaz
    kjfitzaz Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭
    I got it to work somewhat.  When I lowered the CSW to 25A it worked for a few minutes.  Then I disabled the charger and it worked  continuously.  So at least I pump water now witk the generator if I disable the charger. Thanks again. Ken

  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    You may miss the old XW but it is long out of support and most of the used ones on Ebay and such have damaged transfer switch relays.

    You have to be able to solder them in and any tech will tell you that is is not easy to solder on 15 year old PCB's. You often pull up a trace and then you make the repair less reliable.

    If you get Insight Home you can really see what the system is doing. Also Schneider can look at it for warranty and people like me can monitor or adjust if you allow. From anywhere on a smart phone, tablet, or PC. Each site can open into all of the details, charts, graphs, and firmware. Schneider hit this one out of the park!




    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net