Installing Lithium batteries with Schneider Equip?

ligwyd

Hello there,

Does CAN communications work with Xanbus?

I am currently installing three of the linked below batteries in an existing Schneider system using the XW+ 6848, two MPPT 60-150 charge controllers, Battery monitor, SCP, COM Box and AGS.

https://volthium.com/en/product/battery-wallmount-48v-100ah-5-12kwh-ess/

https://volthium.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Technical-Sheet-Wall-Mount-51V100A.pdf

Also, attached the use manual for these batteries.

Thank you for any feedback you may be able to offer.

BB.

You might want to contact Dave A. directly... He is a consultant and has quite a bit of experience with Schneider and various Lithium/BMS variations and their equipment.

https://forum.solar-electric.com/messages/add/Dave Angelini (forum Private Messaging)

"we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
 http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

-Bill

ligwyd

Will do BB. Appreciate the support, as always. Just got three of these in and commissioned last night and then the long drive home. Now just gotta make sure everything is set right and as much coms as possible. Very different from working with the FLA's.

Dave Angelini

Hi Bill,  thanks for the plug!  Hope you are well !  Big changes coming here and will tell you later.

ligwyd  emailed me and I told him that I only use LFP batts that are on the supported list with Schneider. Later when I was not busy I looked at the 10 or so on the list and his is not on it.

Schneider will work with battery companies to get into the Insight gateway/facility/home devices that manage the BMS interface. This is mainly for XW pro which is a different bird than previous XW's.  XWP is based on Soc control internally.

The other way is for a person to know canbus or modbus and use the data Schneider open source provides on their website.

All of what I said pertains to closed loop operation. Open loop is just plugging the set-points. You do lose alot of the reasons to use lithium batteries open loop. IMHO.

New firmware this last week.  Cheers! Going to the Lounge 😎

mike95490

Yes and no.   CAN does not connect to Xanbus.   But some Li batteries can communicate  CAN via the Gateway and it's multiconnection data plug.  It's not trivial to set up, lots of steps and programming to not make a mistake with.  But it can be done

ligwyd

Mike, from you experience would you recommend swapping the COM box for the Gateway/ Insight as a first imperative? These Volthiums each have to 2 Battery COM ports for battery to battery and then I believe can hook up to Windows laptop (will try asap), 2 RS-485 ports and one CAN port.

The Volthium batteries that I am currently integrating have protection built in, however, obviously not ideal to have them tripping internally, shutting down the system. My suggestion was the AES but these are the batteries I am being asked to install........and hopeful that there may be a way to utilize them successfully.

Since these batteries are not plug and play via Xanbus, what is the potential detriment other than no detailed cell info avail through COM Box, Gateway, or Insight.... Currently have the COM box in use, considering Gateway/ Insight.

The old FLA batteries only relay basic data(amp hours in/ out, Voltage) through the pre-scaler. So would that not be enough info to cause the Schneider equip to throttle down from Bulk/ Adsorb to Float, S.O.C. etc?

I've got about 10 tabs open on my laptop to read up on today. Hopefully I'll have more informed questions after I've read up on as much as I can. I've also got a whole page of questions already sent directly to the manufacturer and hope to hear back tomorrow.

Reading up on this product also:

https://solar.schneider-electric.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Conext-Bridge-DS20170405_ENG.pdf

guess the bridge collapsed a long time ago............

ligwyd

Just posting what I got back so far from Schneider for anyone interested. Very much appreciate any feedback..........

in reference to case 78391, thanks for reaching Schneider Electric Solar.

About your inquiries:

1. The InsightHome and the Gateway are compatibles with the Conext XW+. It is not mentioned on the InsightHome Datasheet because the XW+ is a discontinued product, but as the Gateway, it is compatible.
2. The Combox is not compatible with communication with Lithium batteries. The RS485 port is to connect other inverters like the TX model (discontinued product). The battery manufacturer says on their web page that their batteries can establish communication with our equipment using CAN. The Combox is not compatible with CAN.
3. My recommendation is to upgrade to an InsightHome. Additionally, I recommend you to contact the Volthium batteries manufacturer to confirm which SE equipment is compatible and can establish communication with their batteries.

Do you want me to contact you with the System Application Engineering department? They will assist you better with presales and design inquiries.

mike95490

Volthium  is going to have to shepard you through this, along with a gateway, no combox

ligwyd

Yes. Going back and forth with both Schneider and Volthium. Slowly getting some clarity. I now see more clearly why Schneider up sells their plug and play AES battery, however appreciate the challenge and opportunity to work with different types of products.

One other thought I can post here relating to this:

During several sunny days with little to no loads (obviously best to shut down equip if left unattended for long periods of time), how would one ensure no overcharging of Lithium batteries from MPPT Solar Charge Controllers when, installed as a drop FLA replacement?

For now, I have simply recorded Battery Voltage, under observed "During Charging Amps", and set the Charge Controllers(CC) to corresponding Voltage at 80% SOC. In this case is approx 54V BULK, at which time during the charge the CC exit Bulk to a min Absorb setting of 1min with no float. So far this seems to be the only way to utilize the currently installed MPPT 60-150's in "custom" battery setting, to safely charge the batteries to a specified SOC.

Batteries are protected with internal BMS settings from factory, however do not want to rely on the fail safe and also have initially set up charging parameter and SOC to operate between 20% and 80% SOC so as to give the Lithium batteries the longest life possible.

Ultimately, will be going with battery manufactures recommendations as I learn more from them.

Any dialogues is appreciated.