f66 on xw4024

jtdiesel65

i brought down my system with to XW In order to install a shunt. Now I get a f66 fault on the slave. I looked all over the config and I don't see anything wrong. I changed the cable and no luck. I changed the config to make the master the slave and slave the master with no luck. The fault follows the slave. Any ideas?

Dave Angelini

Vermont a bit chilly tonight
I would do the below and also try a DC shutdown of the slave for 5 minutes.

F66 on XW multi-unit system.

Published date: 24 January 2018

Issue:

Multi-unit XW system shows F66

Environment:

Multi-unit XW system

Resolution:

1. Ensure Xanbus and AC Sync cabling correct
2. Ensure XW Inverters have unique device numbers (00, 01, 02, etc.)
3. Ensure Inverter mode is set correctly (split phase master, slave, etc.)
4. Ensure ALL settings in CONNECTIONS menu of all inverters match exactly. 

Cause:

Cabling or configuration errors

jtdiesel65

thanks. I tried all that. I upgraded firmware to latest available. No dice. Both inverters work fine as standalones.

One thing that is also happening is I get no load info from the XWs on the combox or the scp. This happens with one inverting and the other with the f66 and as standalones.   There is no information flowing from the XW's. Here's a screenshot. This inverter is running the house and shows .2 KW load on it's panel. The temp doesn't even report. So I got to think they just can't read each other's data, but the weird thing is I can pull up settings on the combox and scp.  I was able to change the charger % charge and verify that it changed.  I was able to upgrade firmware on both.  One of them lost connection at 85%, but then finished on second try.  I have switched out cables across the entire system using many different cables and still no dice.

Dave Angelini

I do not think you can get decent results with one inverter in fault mode. Is that display from gateway? If so it might also have issues with old inverters. It is not 100% for the generation before XW+.

I would try, if you have not is a reset to factory on the bad one. If no dice I would make sure the fault inverter just sits without dc for a day.
I would inspect the stacking ports for corrosion or damage.  Good Luck !

jtdiesel65

That's combox. I had the gateway on it but reverted wondering if there was a conflict. I'm not sure which one is the bad one. I'll do factory reset and verify It's functional and then do the second one. thx

jtdiesel65

Well that worked. Both appear to be online. Funny thing is IIRC the slave always read some amount of KW on it's panel, now it has "---" which is what the manual states it should have. I'll have to create some load to test functionality.

I don't know what caused this. I suspect it was the conext battery monitor. I had the gateway working and getting good data, and this didn't start until I added the battery monitor.

thanks!

jtdiesel65

Unfortunately, there is a new problem. My battery seemed to be draining out faster than what I thought and so I checked on things. A bigger load must have triggered the slave to come on and somehow it got into a state where the master is charging and the slave is inverting. You can see in the photo. The master is is charging at 38.2a and the slave is inverting with a 0.88 kw load.

Anybody seen this before?

Dave Angelini

I think you said you have combox and gateway? If so that is not recommended by Schneider as it can cause non specified behavior.
Non Specified, I was told means they did not test it and even though I did a bit here, they did not want me to do this offgrid.

jtdiesel65

I don't have the gateway connected. Just combox, ags, scp, and two xw4024.

Dave Angelini

Looks to me then like you have a stuck relay or one that is intermittent. Did you DC power down?

Have you looked at the relays?
If they are not clear plastic and are smokey, you need repair or replace. Since there a numerous way to wire 2  4024's I think you should list it or draw it , if anyone is going to be able to give you a decent answer.

jtdiesel65

I did power down  

The relays are clear and wired according to figure b-5 in the manual.

jtdiesel65

I did power down  

The relays are clear and wired according to figure b-5 in the manual except with nothing on ac1 grid.

jtdiesel65

I switched slave to master and master to slave and the one that charges instead of inverting stays with the hardware. It happens when load comes on that triggers the slave. As soon as the load comes on it drops into this behavior. Initiating generator charging does not do this

jtdiesel65

I could probably switch the 3 easier boards (EMI and relay, DSP and control, and networking)  from inverter to inverter and see if the problem follows a particular board.  It's weird that the inverters work fine as standalones.  If there was a stuck relay, I would expect that the inverter would have problems as a standalone too.

I've tested and when it's in this state there is no voltage in either the AC1 or AC2 inputs. So I guess it's taking power from INV out to use to charge. This isn't a normal state in any configuration.  There are no faults or warnings.

I found used EMI and relay boards for $1500 online. That's half of a new XW6048+.

Dave Angelini

XW+ is on the way out and XWpro is the one to look at. One of my suppliers is telling me this by having a lower price on XWpro and better warranty. Schneider is only suppling XW+ until the 3 phase software has been tested for field use and this should be done soon.

For your problem, also check the history in faults and warnings logs. On gateway it is called events / historical. 

At least you have s spare 😉

jtdiesel65

Thanks. They both work fine individually. I can get by with one except that its a bit limiting and I also have a AC unit with high startup. The AC unit has a soft start and might actually work ok with a single 4024. I haven't tested it though.  I'm not totally  convinced yet that this is hardware.

Does anybody know where one might download older firmware for the XW4024?

Does anybody know if the XW pro will work with the older XW PDP? Dimensions seem to be the same. Seems like it would.

I've searched and searched and the description of the two inverter system in this comment seems to match what I'm seeing.

https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/comment/182371#Comment_182371

Dave Angelini

Not going to need AC for a long time. I just cleared 6 inches of snow off from the 6 inches this morning. The last thing I would do is try to swap boards in winter! Bad plan unless you have a 3rd inverter.

You said you updated firmware? Which is it ?  What are you running?

  Yes your PDP will work fine with xwp. I did this many times back when 4024 became non-serviceable in the field.

jtdiesel65

They are using v01.07.00-0003. I was thinking of trying the earlier version before AC coupling since that seems to be what they are doing. I think that would be v01.03 ?

Swapping boards doesn't make too much sense since I'm not going to buy a $1500 used board that is "tested" but no returns allowed. So what's the point I guess. The networking board is only $220, but it's probably not the networking board.

jtdiesel65

I did open a case with SE and they thought different DC readings between the two could cause this. They asked for readings from the combox.  I measured it and they were 0.4v different. At that point, I got the "will replace if you are under warranty, otherwise can't help you".

I asked if there was a way to calibrate this, but haven't got anything back yet.

At any rate, I have to buy a new battery so I'll just move to 48 volt. The battery will be either 2 24v (or 4 12v) strings that are not permanently leaded together. I will take out one of the XW4024s and drop in a new XW6848. I'll remove the wiring for the remaining XW4024 but keep it in place. If the XW6848 dies, I can rewire the XW4024 and split the battery into two 24v strings. One of the strings will power the XW4024. This will serve as a backup plan.

thanks

Dave Angelini

The configuration/Cal tool sold in the store here is for adjusting the DAC's on an XW. It can be used for AC & DC calibration from a Laptop.
Your 4024 is pretty old and I can't say for sure if a modern config tool would work with it. I only did this on the 6048 back in the day.
 I don't like strings of batteries offgrid but.....
I also think I would sell the 4024's. You can get a CSW4048 pretty cheap and it could be a spare or used for additional charging. About the only thing that will kill an XW is lightning or gensets, so use SPD's if you are not now.

A bit chilly I see up there!  Good Luck!

jtdiesel65

That's a better idea. Moving to 48v means loosing my auxiliary charger (24v xantrex 30 amp). This is wired to a wall outlet so I can use pretty much any portable generator.  I'll have to replace it. Can an SW be wired for 110v generator input?

I have delta arrestors, but I've read that maybe I should move to midnight solar ones.

thanks

Vic

jt..,

It is said that the Delta LA series "arrestors"  have an arc gap that is designed to breakdown at about 7500 V nominal.  The ones that I've looked at are just an arc gap with SAND for quenching.

Our systems really need Supressors (like the MN SPDs),  which have MOVs that conduct at a much lower voltage than the Deltas,     especially,  in lightning alley,    IMO.

Vic

jtdiesel65

Thanks. Would there be any reason to remove the deltas and replace with the MN SPDS or just add the MN SPDS?

mike95490

I would just add the MN SPD's   Leaving the Delta's won't hurt anything.

Vic

jtdiesel65 said:

Thanks. Would there be any reason to remove the deltas and replace with the MN SPDS or just add the MN SPDS?

If you have room,   and a reliable means of connecting the MN SPDs (especially in the PV Combiner),   then there is no reason to remove the Deltas.

Many of us use spare Combiner box breaker positions to add a breaker,  that connects the SPDs hot lead to the Combiner output busbar.    Do not know how you accomplish this with your Deltas.

Vic