Connectors: Which is male and which is female?

edurbrow
edurbrow Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭
Which is male and which is female? Which goes to positive and which goes to negative. I'm very confused because some solar web sites call the connector that looks like a jack, male and some call it female. Also, YouTube videographers conflict. Looking at the metal parts that go inside the plastic housing, the larger metal tube, which one would assume is the female, goes into the plastic connector that looks like a male body part.

So is male/female reckoned by the outside appearance or inside structure? And, does the male connect to the + or - side of the panel?

This site illustrates the plastic housing which looks like a male body part and calls it female. https://www.leadergroup-cn.com/how-to-connect-mc4-connectors.html

This site says put the male into the female and in the video names them according to their outward appearance. https://www.prostarsolar.net/support/faq/how-to-assemble-mc4-connectors-and-mc4-wiring-cables.html

This site illustrates the plastic housing which looks like a male body part and calls it female and says it is positive!



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Comments

  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Being that extension cables have male and female connectors and the cable is connected to the positive or negative  line I think it doesn't matter which is which. That being said, if you look at most panels the positive lead is usually (but not always) the male looking connector. Also, if you look at many MC-4 connectors the male looking one is marked with a + and the female looking one is marked with a -. 
     The actual metal contacts inside MC-4 connectors are the opposite of their plastic housings.

     I'm still confused....

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • mcnutt13579
    mcnutt13579 Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭✭
    In my world we call the connector male or female by the center electrical connection.  Ignoring the plastic housing or anything around it.
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In my world we call the connector male or female by the center electrical connection.  Ignoring the plastic housing or anything around it.
    So then the Male connector is usually the -, negative one on a solar panel?

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭✭
    In my world we call the connector male or female by the center electrical connection.  Ignoring the plastic housing or anything around it.
    So then the Male connector is usually the -, negative one on a solar panel?

    That depends on how the connector wants to identify.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • mcnutt13579
    mcnutt13579 Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭✭
    In my world we call the connector male or female by the center electrical connection.  Ignoring the plastic housing or anything around it.
    So then the Male connector is usually the -, negative one on a solar panel?
    Yes but I use the tag with the big red + to identify the positive, just to be sure.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm positive I feel negative.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In my world we call the connector male or female by the center electrical connection.  Ignoring the plastic housing or anything around it.
    So then the Male connector is usually the -, negative one on a solar panel?

    That depends on how the connector wants to identify.

    Here's a (female?) showing positive +

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So do we have to call connectors "they" or "them" now?  >:)
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Probably, here in California.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • shawnj72
    shawnj72 Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    PLUG=MALE  SOCKET=FEMALE..  It doesn't self Identify as anything else.

    You would Never Ever even if it has plastic, or shield  around it Have the plug end Positive or electrified in a PLUG.  #1 Reason to not have a Plug coming off a generator or anything electrified..

    As a Rule keep the positive or electrified side of things Female and the Male-PLUG Receives the Juice or positive current from the FEMALE-SOCKET.  Just as you would your plug and receptacle in your house. When the PLUG-MALE is disconnected From the socket-Female it is de-Energized.
    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.. ;-)
  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭✭
    My self identify comment was a joke, making fun of California laws allowing fluid gender identity.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • mike_s
    mike_s Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭
    shawnj72 said:
    PLUG=MALE  SOCKET=FEMALE..  It doesn't self Identify as anything else.

    You would Never Ever even if it has plastic, or shield  around it Have the plug end Positive or electrified in a PLUG. 

    Better stay away from solar power, then. Every panel has both a socket and A PLUG (the horror!) coming off of it. Both are "electrified." Question here is which is positive and which negative.
  • shawnj72
    shawnj72 Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    My self identify comment was a joke, making fun of California laws allowing fluid gender identity.
    I Know Some sill find humor in People Places and things :-)
    mike_s said:
    shawnj72 said:
    PLUG=MALE  SOCKET=FEMALE..  It doesn't self Identify as anything else.

    You would Never Ever even if it has plastic, or shield  around it Have the plug end Positive or electrified in a PLUG. 

    Better stay away from solar power, then. Every panel has both a socket and A PLUG (the horror!) coming off of it. Both are "electrified." Question here is which is positive and which negative.

    I know what You are saying but Explaining things in a bit more detail will prevent someone not so Educated in make a grave mistake later. Like hooking a two headed socket to a generator.

    It makes sense to Have two different cable ends so that they are not interchangeable. You see this a lot on DC circuits.. But Standard the Female of the socket will always Be the Battery Positive. But Stuff coming out of third world countries will have their own ideas i recon.

  • mike_s
    mike_s Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭
    shawnj72 said:
    You see this a lot on DC circuits.. But Standard the Female of the socket will always Be the Battery Positive. But Stuff coming out of third world countries will have their own ideas i recon. 
    Not sure Where you got that Idea. Which "Standard?" While it's Common in modern Automobile systems, First World telecom systems usually run with a Positive Ground, and the "Hot" is -52 VDC from the Battery Negative. A lot of older Cars used positive ground. NEC allows either side of a DC PV Circuit to be grounded, or Ungrounded (exposed Metal is required to Be Grounded).

    Don't know why you think the contact Gender matters. Solar connectors are Shrouded, so well Protected from inadvertent contact. They can't be compared to common AC Wall Plugs.
  • shawnj72
    shawnj72 Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    Electrical Standard.. Not sure Why you want to argue something unless you been doing it wrong a long time.No harm no foul.. To convince me a female be a plug and should be negative, 0VDC, Or Neutral and the Male be a socket Battery Positive, Hot lead or the side with electrical Energy.  Its Just common Sense and Common Practice and in Many, Many Instances Electrical code and Standard. Ill continue to Put electrical Energy , Hot Battery Positive +, and hot leads of AC to Sockets (AKA) Female. And 0VDC, Negative -, Neutral or Common to Plugs (AKA) Male Connectors.  Not only for my safety but the safety of someone else..
       
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2020 #17
    shawnj72 said:
    PLUG=MALE  SOCKET=FEMALE..  It doesn't self Identify as anything else.

    You would Never Ever even if it has plastic, or shield  around it Have the plug end Positive or electrified in a PLUG.  #1 Reason to not have a Plug coming off a generator or anything electrified..

    As a Rule keep the positive or electrified side of things Female and the Male-PLUG Receives the Juice or positive current from the FEMALE-SOCKET.  Just as you would your plug and receptacle in your house. When the PLUG-MALE is disconnected From the socket-Female it is de-Energized.
    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.. ;-)
    Wrong.

    a) the line that is not grounded, should generally be the socket side. (often, in a car, - is chassis ground, leaving the + conductor dangerous and thus, should be a socket.

    b) with AC, the energized side, should be socket side (like an ordinary wall socket) (hot & neutral)

    c) with solar panels, with + & - wires, you have to be careful and aware, your ill thought rule just failed you.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • mike_s
    mike_s Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭
    shawnj72 said:
    Electrical Standard.. Not sure Why you want to argue something unless you been doing it wrong a long time.No harm no foul.. To convince me a female be a plug and should be negative, 0VDC, Or Neutral and the Male be a socket Battery Positive, Hot lead or the side with electrical Energy.  Its Just common Sense and Common Practice and in Many, Many Instances Electrical code and Standard. Ill continue to Put electrical Energy , Hot Battery Positive +, and hot leads of AC to Sockets (AKA) Female. And 0VDC, Negative -, Neutral or Common to Plugs (AKA) Male Connectors.  Not only for my safety but the safety of someone else..
       
    WhY yOu InSiSt On SpEaKinG CamElCase?

    Seriously, you're doing it wrong, and don't understand either electricity or safety, which has absolutely nothing to do with contact gender.
  • shawnj72
    shawnj72 Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    shawnj72 said:
    PLUG=MALE  SOCKET=FEMALE..  It doesn't self Identify as anything else.

    You would Never Ever even if it has plastic, or shield  around it Have the plug end Positive or electrified in a PLUG.  #1 Reason to not have a Plug coming off a generator or anything electrified..

    As a Rule keep the positive or electrified side of things Female and the Male-PLUG Receives the Juice or positive current from the FEMALE-SOCKET.  Just as you would your plug and receptacle in your house. When the PLUG-MALE is disconnected From the socket-Female it is de-Energized.
    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.. ;-)
    Wrong.

    a) the line that is not grounded, should generally be the socket side. (often, in a car, - is chassis ground, leaving the + conductor dangerous and thus, should be a socket.

    b) with AC, the energized side, should be socket side (like an ordinary wall socket) (hot & neutral)

    c) with solar panels, with + & - wires, you have to be careful and aware, your ill thought rule just failed you.
    Wrong. ? Not sure what you are referring to?

    a) the line that is not grounded, should generally be the socket side. (often, in a car, - is chassis ground, leaving the + conductor dangerous and thus, should be a socket.                  (We are saying the Exact Same Thing.)

    b) with AC, the energized side, should be socket side (like an ordinary wall socket) (hot & neutral) (STILL SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING)
    Except I did add the neutral with the list of comments with the negitive - 0vdc ect.. I have seen some three phase with neutral plugs hot leads socket while the neutral was a plug. Guess it wouldn't be any different than the neutral coming into your house is Generally Bare wire and the support cable at the same time.  But generally all Energy is a socket in AC and DC circuits while plug in dc is most always 0VDC Negative but we are still on exactly the same page.


    c) with solar panels, with + & - wires, you have to be careful and aware, your ill thought rule just failed you. (Not sure what you are saying here ) I will be putting a socket on the Battery Plus + HOT and the Plug on the negative 0vdc or - minus. Its A DC Circuit at the end of the day and same rules apply.

    Which leads back to


    "a) the line that is not grounded, should generally be the socket side. (often, in a car, - is chassis ground, leaving the + conductor dangerous and thus, should be a socket."

    (We are saying the Exact Same Thing.)

    Electrical Engineer By trade. Building designing Programming Machines If my Drawings and circuits did not abide by these rules they would be back on my desk awaiting for correction or would never pass an inspection by anyone in the field.
    mike_s said:
    shawnj72 said:
    Electrical Standard.. Not sure Why you want to argue something unless you been doing it wrong a long time.No harm no foul.. To convince me a female be a plug and should be negative, 0VDC, Or Neutral and the Male be a socket Battery Positive, Hot lead or the side with electrical Energy.  Its Just common Sense and Common Practice and in Many, Many Instances Electrical code and Standard. Ill continue to Put electrical Energy , Hot Battery Positive +, and hot leads of AC to Sockets (AKA) Female. And 0VDC, Negative -, Neutral or Common to Plugs (AKA) Male Connectors.  Not only for my safety but the safety of someone else..
       
    WhY yOu InSiSt On SpEaKinG CamElCase?

    Seriously, you're doing it wrong, and don't understand either electricity or safety, which has absolutely nothing to do with contact gender.

    Which Leads Back to this comment
    "Seriously, you're doing it wrong, and don't understand either electricity or safety, which has absolutely nothing to do with contact gender."

    With all due respect it is obvious which is the correct way. I have no idea why you would say I was doing it wrong by putting the socket side a Female Battery Positive + and the Male side 0VDC or battery Negative.

    Maybe you are (mike_s) saying the same thing and just don't know the Difference Between Male and Female Connectors.  


    But I think I have been Very clear on the subject.. As far as solar Panels go I believe the Same Rules would apply coming FROM the Panel. The Battery Positive + being the socket side while the Negative - 0VDC being the plug Coming from the Panel. I can only assume you were referring to the connectors going to the panel and really in the end saying the same thing then ..Regards    



  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe a silly question but...
    How is the negative of a solar panel, sitting on top of a pallet or whatever, at ground potential?  Even installed on a rack open circuit, is the negative reliably at 0v to ground?

    Doing electrical wiring, I always check polarity before making final connections. I'm getting too old to remember socket = positive etc rules.  Also old enough to have seen enough stuff not wired according to the "rules" to not trust it (or myself) anyway.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    shawnj72 said:
    Electrical Standard.. ...
       
    Because you are assuming EVERY system is wired with - ground.   Cathodic Protection Systems (caps for names) are + ground.
    Many PV systems use + ground.  Not as many as using - ground, but there are many out there.

    Safety protocols span all installs, not just what you are acquainted with.  You appear to have only a smattering of knowledge in the field, and are making invalid assumptions of what YOU want to make everyone safe. 
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • shawnj72
    shawnj72 Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    Mike all due Respect You are Assuming You know me by a few words and Assume I am doing something against what you believe is the wrong and You couldn't be so Far From the Actual events.. You said the same exact thing I said bu for some reason you couldn't comprehend it. I can see clearly you just didn't get what i was saying even though it was clearly stated..  Funny how one wants to argue he is right even when the other is saying he is right. That's why I called it 0 Volts DC. Positive ground is Still Positive or the side with Energy..This conversation is over I believe most get it..   

  • mike_s
    mike_s Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭
    shawnj72 said:
    Positive ground is Still Positive or the side with Energy.
    If you believe that, you're way over your head here.
  • shawnj72
    shawnj72 Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    Now I see what the Problem is.. You got up and decided no mater what I say you will pretend I am An Idiot and everything you say will make the world believe that..  It is No secret it looks like you are way over your head and if you took 1 second and actually read what I said it would make perfect sense not only here but to the rest of the planet. Walk in any industrial plant electrician business or code official and tell them what you are saying here and i am Wrong.. I'm not wrong. I will continue to teach Not One Energized Electrical Connector will Ever Be MALE PERIOD !!!
          If I hear you correctly You will get yourself killed or someone else.. And This is why. You tell someone it is ok and  correct to put a male connector on an Energized Circuit for your panel. He take the same theory and applies it to something far more dangerous and kills himself or someone else. And says well that the way i was told to do it.. I believe you should stick to your little connectors and never tell anyone what male or female connector to put because clearly you have no idea. People will take what you say and try to evolve. I'll look inside an electrical Panel or in an industrial box and ask myself what idiot taught this guy. I see guys trying to install a fuse on a live circuits. Ive seen someone on his way to test a 2400v circuit with a 600v meter. Perfect Example that would of been his last day on the Planet..   I see a lot of this more in the last 5 years because common sense isn't as strong  as it once was and it shows. Please Stop sit back take a deep breath and just listen to what i'm trying to say. I cant believe you just cant comprehend what I'm saying.. And Please anyone that reads this thread use common sense NEVER NEVER use a MALE connector on an Energized Circuit if it Be Battery Positive 2400v 240,110VAC 12,24,48,96 VDC EVER!
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I hate to get in the middle of a good p***ing match but for my own edification, aren't we talking about (at least) two different concepts?

    A source of power is a concept.  By convention, the source of power is a socket.  That could be an ac plug, or a dc cigarette type.  The plug includes both polarities.

    The polarity of the power is a different concept.  An ac lighting socket (usually but not always) wires a grounded neutral to the wall of the socket, and the "hot" to a base terminal.  Both wires carry current.  Likewise, a dc circuit may (or not) have the negative or positive tied to a local ground.  Applying the notion of "energized" vs not in this context makes no sense to me.  Maybe someone can explain it to me?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • shawnj72
    shawnj72 Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭
    edited January 2020 #26
    Estragon I apologize was never ment to be a P***ing Match what so ever.. I guess a couple fella neglected to see or hear what i was trying to say and i tried to remain civilized while being pretty much called everything but an idiot.. Back to the Top this is whet the Standard I was referring to didn't have the time to look it up but did after work tonight..
    NEC
    406.6(B) Connection of Attachment Plugs. Attachment plugs
    shall be installed so that their prongs, blades, or pins are not
    energized unless inserted into an energized receptacle or
    cord connectors. No receptacle shall be installed so as to
    require the insertion of an energized attachment plug as its
    source of supply.

    AC Circuit The neutral is not tied to the wall of the sock but rather to the Main Panel Ground. there is absolutely no current Potential on the neutral side of AC. That's where ground fault would apply..Dc now carries current on both sides and depending on if you have the negative ground.. or positive ground will determine which way the current will flow.. to the positive from the negative or from the positive to the negative.. That's why there is a male and female plug and why both are housed inside a socket per say so none can be exposed when disconnected.. You see this in most DC circuits Male pins housed inside Socket plugs.. But i still see a lot of DC Circuits people using PLUGS without no socket around it and should be avoided in DC circuits.. Also why it is very important to use DC Rated Fuses and circuit breakers and not Use Ac Fuses in Dc.. This is the biggest one I see a lot..The DC current Arc is much different than AC. Hope this clears the air a bit and can see what i was trying to establish..      
  • mike_s
    mike_s Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭
    edited January 2020 #27
    Estragon said:

    The polarity of the power is a different concept.  An ac lighting socket (usually but not always) wires a grounded neutral to the wall of the socket, and the "hot" to a base terminal.  Both wires carry current.  Likewise, a dc circuit may (or not) have the negative or positive tied to a local ground.  Applying the notion of "energized" vs not in this context makes no sense to me.  Maybe someone can explain it to me?
    Nothing to explain, you have it right. Positive vs. negative are just conventions, names we give to opposite polarities so we can differentiate them. When someone claims that positive is "the side with Energy", they simply don't understand electricity, on multiple levels.

    First, nothing happens unless a circuit is completed, and that requires both the positive and negative sides be present. When both are present, you have the potential (voltage) to provide power. Current (amps) needs to travel through both sides to provide power (watts). Neither polarity is in any way special. They're both necessary and both carry exactly the same amount of power. Energy (joules, or commonly kilowatt-hours) is how much power is provided over time. But, the fact is that neither positive nor negative are in any way special, safer, more dangerous, provide energy, etc. They're exactly equal, but opposite. Yin/Yang.

    Sometimes, one side is connected to "ground", which is an imprecise term. It may mean physical ground (connected to a rod or pipe driven into the ground) or it may mean connected to the metal chassis of a device or vehicle. In any case, it implies that whichever side of the circuit is connected to ground is easily accessed - standing in a puddle of water, turning a water faucet, opening a car door might all connect you to one side of a circuit. That makes the other side more dangerous because you may complete the circuit (get a shock) if you touch something connected to it. Positive and negative, makes absolutely no difference. If one is grounded, it's the other which becomes a present danger. 

    Trying to bring up household AC circuits, where the polarities alternate, into a discussion about solar DC again demonstrates a lack of knowledge. They're very different things. With household AC, sockets are used for power sources, plugs for devices drawing power. It's got nothing to do with positive or negative, everything to do with protecting users from exposure to a power source. Sockets are shrouded (contacts not easily accessed), plugs aren't. It's really got nothing to do with male/female contacts, other than it's easiest/cheapest/logical to make the shrouded side also the side with the female contacts, so that's the convention that developed. It's also related to the fact that in practice, users need to connect to both sides of the power source at the same time (e.g. plugging in a 2 prong lamp cord). 

    It's very different with solar DC. First, it's rare that both sides of a power source get connected at the same time, and very common that a circuit gets completed by connecting two wires together (note that with AC, we're connecting 4 wires together when plugging in that lamp). Even if one side of the circuit is grounded somewhere, you might be working in the middle of a "string," and both wires are going to have voltage not only compared to each other, but when compared to ground. With the common MC4 solar DC connectors,  protection is provided by the insulating shroud provided with _both_ male and female connectors. There is absolutely no safety difference - none, zero, zip, nada - whether a male or female connector is used for positive or negative. There may be a convention, which is the question which started this thread.

    Finally, the claim that power sources are always female. It's simply wrong, and everyone here knows it. I'm certain everyone has had a device which is powered by a "wall wart", where there's a round barrel plug (male) on the end of a cord which plugs into some device to provide power. QED. A less known example, for an voltage even more dangerous than household AC is the anode (positive!) connector for a CRT, which is most commonly a male spring contact.

    TLDR; Positive and negative are just names. They're equal, but opposite, and neither is more dangerous, "provides energy", etc. on their own. Contact gender has nothing to do with safety. Safety is provided by shrouding connectors and making their contacts (male or female or hermaphroditic) difficult to access.

    I think most people here understand all the basic concepts. It's just a small few who know only enough to be both wrong and dangerous, and insist on advertising that fact.
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    shawnj72 said:

    AC Circuit The neutral is not tied to the wall of the sock but rather to the Main Panel Ground.

    To clarify, I was talking about the socket of a normal 120v edison type screw in light bulb.  The socket wall is generally wired to neutral.

    there is absolutely no current Potential on the neutral side of AC.

    Current and potential are two different things (amps and volts).  The neutral in a 120v circuit generally carries current equal to the "hot".  Potential voltage of the neutral is ~120v with respect to hot, and ~0v with respect to ground.

    That's where ground fault would apply..Dc now carries current on both sides and depending on if you have the negative ground.. or positive ground will determine which way the current will flow.. to the positive from the negative or from the positive to the negative..

    This may be the root of the misunderstanding.  My understanding is in a simple DC circuit current always flows in one direction (from higher potential to lower).  Grounding has nothing to do with the direction of current flow in normal operation.


    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • mcnutt13579
    mcnutt13579 Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭✭
    I respectfully submit that there is too much text going on here.

    MC4 connectors have both the male and female pins completely shielded with plastic, which happens to be the opposite gender of the metal pin itself.

    Nobody can get a shock off either gender, whether it is grounded or not.
  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Estragon said:
    Maybe a silly question but...
    How is the negative of a solar panel, sitting on top of a pallet or whatever, at ground potential?  Even installed on a rack open circuit, is the negative reliably at 0v to ground?
    Nope.  At that point it's floating.  Any voltage measurement needs a reference, and without a reference you cannot make a reliable reading even with a meter.

    That's one reason some systems float power signals.  With a floating (ungrounded) system, any SINGLE inadvertent connection to ground (say, through your body) carries no DC current.  However, it can still carry AC current - and such systems are difficult to protect well because there's no current to blow a breaker if there is a fault to ground.  And once that fault happens, the rest of the system becomes a hazard at odd voltages.  (For example if you short the positive side of a 400 volt floating battery system to ground, the negative side - which someone might foolishly decide is close to ground, would be at -400 volts - and quite deadly.)
  • OutsourcedGuru
    OutsourcedGuru Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    edurbrow said:
    Which is male and which is female?
    Honestly, this seems easy to me. Do a Google -> Image search for "MC-4 female" and it results in the male-looking plug. Buy two bags of MC-4 connectors from NAZ—ten each—and they arrive with the word "female" written on the side with a Sharpie of the male-looking plastic plugs.   And then the other bag will have "male" on them and they are the female-looking plastic receptacles.

    Apparently, this decision stems from the single metallic connector buried inside the connector itself rather than the locking plastic mechanism. In conductor terms, the female receives the male.

    Also, you can take the two bags of connectors to a Starbucks in California and see which bathroom they crawl toward. /YesThisIsHumorOnTheInternet
    I'm a low-cost installer of solar in western New Mexico.