Conergy booster pump..

hillsidehillside Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
I have model # 16240- the 24Volt booster pump on a rain water pumping system.
The manual  ("Flowlight Booster Pump") shows brush holders on each side of the pump, on the outside of the housing..
Now, maybe my manual isn't the correct one for the pump because there are no brush holders visible.
Would they be on the inside of the housing? It is close to the time they'll need replacing and I want to get ahead of it before the brushes fail.
thanks
7 235Watt panels, 4 in series/parallel, 3 in series, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller + second 40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
4 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
Honda EU3000W generator for backup.

Comments

  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭
    Shut off power to the pump.  Use a slot headed screwdriver to carefully unscrew the plastic plugs at the back end of the motor (opposite to the pump end).  The brush is behind the plug AND the spring!  That's how to check the graphite brush condition.  Be sure to put it back in the same orientation.  
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭
    One on each side.
  • hillsidehillside Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    Ok, thanks. On my pump there is an electrical junction box attached to the end you're talking about. Remove that first? :)
    It's housing the wires to the batteries.
    7 235Watt panels, 4 in series/parallel, 3 in series, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller + second 40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    4 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,802 admin
    Can you give us a link to your pump... The closest I have found is under a different brand (Dankoff).

    http://www.dankoffsolarpumps.com/flowlight-booster-pump/

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭
    On my Conergy pump the junction box sits atop the motor end you're speaking of...the plastic plugs are on either side of the motor housing down from the J box halfway down the side. 
  • hillsidehillside Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    My mistake --it is the Slowpump pictured in the link. I see no plugs anywhere on the outside of the pump.


    7 235Watt panels, 4 in series/parallel, 3 in series, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller + second 40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    4 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,802 admin
    According to the picture on page 1:

    http://dankoffsolarpumps.com/pdfs/FlowlightBooster-SlowPump_Manual_v2016.pdf

    There is a plastic rectangle just to the rear of the junction box... Brushes are underneath.

    And page 21, the description for the brush holders does not seem to match the photo on page 1:
    Motor Brushes – Periodically inspect the motor brushes and measure their length (remove the black plastic screw heads near the rear of the motor). Motor brushes on most models measure 3/4", not including the rounded end. The 1/2 HP model (1400 or 2600 series, or any motor larger than 5” diameter) measure approximately 1 1/4” when new. After inspecting a brush, replace it in the exact same position and tighten the plastic screw gently. Brushes should last approximately 5 years of daily running. Brush wear will not affect motor performance until contact is lost.
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • hillsidehillside Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    but if you click on the "Quick Guide" Comparison of Pumps on the right side of this page you will see my Slow Pump in the first picture.
    It's not in the link you posted but it's in this one:
    No plastic rectangles or covers are visible. It looks like they have to be behind the j box..


    7 235Watt panels, 4 in series/parallel, 3 in series, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller + second 40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    4 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,802 admin
    All it says is:

    http://dankoffsolarpumps.com/pdfs/Solaram-manual.pdf
    MOTOR Solaram pumps use a PERMANENT MAGNET DC MOTOR, that runs efficiently at varying voltages and speeds. The motor is expected to run at voltages as high as 1.5 times its nameplate rating. Thus a "24 Volt" motor is expected to run as high as 36 volts under peaksun conditions. MOTOR BRUSHES are carbon blocks that conduct electric current to the spinning part of the motor. They will wear out in about 5-7 years of typical use. Remove covers on either side of motor to inspect brushes. Inspect annually and replace before they are 2/3 worn.
    I cannot find any good pictures online... Can you post a photo to the forum?

    As near as I can tell, there should be a pair of black rectangular plastic "patches" near the rear of the motor (180 degrees from each other).

    One some other motors I have seen, there is a band that can be removed... Another possibility is the fan shroud is covering the brush access points and needs to be removed first.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • hillsidehillside Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    My pump looks like this one but it is about 10 yrs. old (bought new in '09) put in service in '12 and is used part time, but there isn't a model on the Dankoff site that shows it, My model # is 16240 and it is not listed.
    Dankoff Solar Slow Pump Model 1304-XX
    I removed the black plastic covers over the drive shaft (?) and there is nothing there so it would seem like the brushes would have to be behind the junction box. I removed the cover plate and there are several wires and a white nylon bus but couldn't see behind the box.
    At this point my inclination is to let the brushes live out their lives and take it to a reputable repair shop when that happens. I don't trust myself to disassemble it...
    I keep a Shurflo pump as a back-up but we also are connected to municipal water so could do without the rain water system temporarily.
    Which brings up a question about brushes. Last I checked they were $44.00- $89. a set...if they have them for my model. Would brushes be available in a generic form? Seems expensive.



    7 235Watt panels, 4 in series/parallel, 3 in series, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller + second 40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    4 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,802 admin
    edited December 5 #12
    In general, the brushes are under screw caps (or possibly a cover, over the screw caps) at the rear of the motor... The generic -1304 manual shows a drawing of where the brush holders (screw caps) should be on Page 1:

    https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/slowpump-manual.pdf (page 13:)
    MOTOR BRUSHES: After a year or two, inspect your motor brushes and measure their length (remove one or both of the black plastic screw heads near the rear of the motor). Motor brushes on most models measure 3/4 inch long, not including the rounded end. If you have a 1/2 HP model (1400 or 2600 series, or any motor larger than 5” diameter) they begin life measuring about 1 1/4”). After they show some wear, you may calculate how many more years they have left before they are too short. After inspecting a brush, replace it in the EXACT SAME POSITION and tighten the plastic screw GENTLY. Most brushes last at least 5 YEARS of daily running. Brush wear will not effect motor performance until contact is suddenly lost. MOTOR BRUSHES for 12V pumps: Dankoff Solar Item # 20301 MOTOR BRUSHES for 24V pumps: Dankoff Solar Item # 20302 For 1400 and 2600-series pumps (large blue motor) and for AC models, please ask your Dankoff dealer.
    Brushes (don't know if these are "the correct ones", but a start):

    https://www.solar-electric.com/dankoff-solar-1573-replacement-motor-brushes-for-12-24-vdc-motor.html

    The website (our host, NAWS/Solar-Electric.com) does say to call them before ordering brushes...

    There are mfg. websites that sell carbon brushes... And you can look them up by size if you cannot find the Motor Mfg (many pump suppliers purchase "standard" motors and then private label them):

    https://www.repcoinc.com/brushes/Carbon_Brushes-bms.html
    http://www.graphitestore.com/Carbon-Brushes/Brushes

    Remember to check on the order quantity--The sites above are per each (I think), not per pair.

    If you can find the correct brushes for your motor on one of the above websites, you can save a bunch of money... (call the webstores if you cannot find your brushes, they might have a cross reference in their engineering notes).

    And I do recommend that you inspect the brushes... Bad brushes can ruin or badly score the commutator (typically copper or similar soft metal). If the brush ends are still good, and relatively flat, it is very easy to just change the brushes. If the commutator is rough/scored, the motor needs to be taken apart and turned on a lathe (and you can do that only a few times).

    In general, most brushes are simply under a plastic screw, you back it out, and (lightly) pull out the brush with a pair of needle nose pliers (should slide very easily).

    This is an example of how to R&R brushes that are "clipped in" instead:

    https://www.theartofdoingstuff.com/how-to-replace-carbon-brushes-on-any-motor/

    If you can post a couple photos of the side of the motor, perhaps that will help us (and with the end plate removed--Although, I don't expect the brush access to be under there).

    Brushes typically (approximatly) last something like 5,000 to 10,000 hours... Over 5,000 hours, inspection would be a very good idea.

    -Bill

    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Motor brushes should cost about $20 for a replacement pair.
      They are simple hunks of graphite and a terminal, the design has not changed in 100 years
    The trick is to find the proper size that fits your motor.
    https://www.grainger.com/search?searchQuery=motor brushes&&searchBar=true&suggestConfigId=7&ts_optout=true

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • hillsidehillside Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    Great information, thanks. I will take some shots of the pump and post them.
    Just ran a calculation and figured these brushes have roughly 1,000-2,000 hours as we use municipal water for dishes, laundry, car washing and use the pump & rain water tanks for showering and water filtering for kitchen use.
    But I'll get on this as the commutator is too important to let wear..

    7 235Watt panels, 4 in series/parallel, 3 in series, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller + second 40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    4 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
  • hillsidehillside Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    a few pics of the pump..because of the plumbing I can't move it that much. The casing has no caps for screw covers  and I used a mirror to show the inside of the junction box. I'll have to disconnect hoses to pull it all out and hopefully the brushes are behind the J  box. The third pic is the underside of pump.

    7 235Watt panels, 4 in series/parallel, 3 in series, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller + second 40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    4 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,802 admin
    You got me...

    I have seen warranty labels glued/hiding access points.

    Time to call the manufacturer or distributer.

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • hillsidehillside Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭
    That's my next move, Bill. The label even states "Flowlight Booster Pump", not "Solar Slowpump" as it's pictured in the first picture up the page (comparison of pumps).
    Thanks for the help.
    7 235Watt panels, 4 in series/parallel, 3 in series, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller + second 40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    4 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
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