?? Dual reflector technology ??

I have a sailboat and am researching the use of solar aboard. I read in Cruising World magazine in Macrh '09 that there are panels that use dual reflector technology. That is they get the suns rays from above as usual but also, if the panels are hung over the water, they get sun from the water reflection below as well. There is apparently a 30% gain in power generation.
Has anyone heard of this?
Who makes these panels?
Website?
Any other comments or info?

Thanks for your help.
Rick Salsman
Aisling I
www.sailblogs.com/member/aisling

Comments

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    see this thread.
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=4723&highlight=sanyo&page=2

    also know that mounting it over water makes it somewhat prone to any waves that may hit it. you can search the many threads about sailboats with solar as well here on this forum as you can get a better idea of what some of the other pitfalls may be.
  • MalasombraMalasombra Solar Expert Posts: 24
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    I know that in the 80's Isofoton ( spanish brand ) had panels like that but i doubt there are in production now.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isofoton
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,313 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    What Neil said,,, Sanyo.

    I personally think it is a crazy idea on boat,,, unless it is in port all the time.

    On a car port on the other hand,,,,

    T
  • brenneisbrenneis Solar Expert Posts: 34
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    My father lives on a sailboat and they are coming out with small vertical wind generators that look really cool. They are vertical and spin constantly in light wind in port and blaze when out on the water. Because they in line with the diameter of the mast they look really cool and are not an eye sore...you will get so much more bang for the buck charging the batters plus not have the big ugly panel sticking off the back of your boat. It gets in the way when cruising the islands and you want to jump and swim off the back of your boat.
  • brenneisbrenneis Solar Expert Posts: 34
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    You have a built in mounting pole high off the ground which is the hardest part to install in a home wind system so use it. Scary part is getting in the chair and having someone winch you up to the top. That is why my 60 year old dad made me do it.....
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,313 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??
    brenneis wrote: »
    My father lives on a sailboat and they are coming out with small vertical wind generators that look really cool. They are vertical and spin constantly in light wind in port and blaze when out on the water. Because they in line with the diameter of the mast they look really cool and are not an eye sore...you will get so much more bang for the buck charging the batters plus not have the big ugly panel sticking off the back of your boat. It gets in the way when cruising the islands and you want to jump and swim off the back of your boat.

    Vaporware?? Show me the link.

    Tony
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,429 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??
    brenneis wrote: »
    Because they in line with the diameter of the mast they look really cool and are not an eye sore...

    And so you WILL need a larger mast. Every mast is designed to carry x amount of sail safely. If you add MORE to it, and lever it out beyond the top of the mast, you are adding y more load to the mast. At some point, a gust will hit, and the mast, with sail and wind gennie, will fold up.

    Anyone snap a photo of you up there in the chair, installing the thing ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • brenneisbrenneis Solar Expert Posts: 34
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    True, but that is only a concern if plan on installing a huge propellor on top of your mast and running a fully genny in gail force winds. This is a small efficient vertical wind generator and makes great power. It is also a 60 ft vagabond we are talking about here with a full keel and full mast running to the base. Not a 20 foot cat with a bolt mounted mast. We could have put up a wind generator 3 times the size of the one we did and would not harm it.....I wish he had taken a picture, but he was too busy tending the winch....it was comical.....
  • brenneisbrenneis Solar Expert Posts: 34
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    by running a full genny, I was not referring to a the generator "turbine" but a sail "genny" in saling terms which is much larger than the normal one you would use on the boat............sailboat masts are rated to carry much more pressure than one would normally encounter even with a large gust....now I suppose if he found himself in the middle of a hurricane with a broken rudder and didn't manage to bring down the sails before the 100mph winds hit then you might have a point...but at that point who cares about the wind generator..get out the liferaft...
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??
    icarus wrote: »
    Vaporware?? Show me the link.

    Tony

    I think maybe this doohickey hanging off the back of this guy's boat is a vertical axis wind generator.

    http://www.vendeeglobe.org/upload/images/photos/090314--img2979.jpg

    Here's one that says it can be used on a boat:

    http://www.everwindpower.com/SPECS.pdf

    Might have to be a big boat...
  • brenneisbrenneis Solar Expert Posts: 34
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    yeah, that would need to be the love boat to put that thing up...as to the picture..I am not sure...it could also be a wing vang if I spelled that right...I know some boat for long distance cruisers who don't want to eat battery power have some type of contraption that uses the wind relevant direction to hold the rudder steady as opposed to an electronic autopilot which draws a lot of power...hard to say..would be a weird place to mount a wind generator...
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,637 admin
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    I would agree that it appears to be a VAWT. If you go through the /photo directory--all of pre-March 2009 shots did not appear to have the VAWT on the stern--so I don't think it would be some sort of "standard" steering gear.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,313 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    It may be a VAT,,, but it looks like it would turn into a giant Vegamatic if you slipped in the 'pit and fell into it! Not on my boat.

    Tony

    PS That is not a a VAT in the bow!
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    from what i see it would appear to be more of an ornament, but it's hard to tell. as it appears it would be direct drive of the generator and vawts are slower moving than hawts and often may need gearing. in any case that thing wouldn't produce much power. i can imagine somebody getting too close to that while speeding through the water. soylent green anybody?
    i also don't see the point of using the engine power to overcome the drag of this vawt so it can thus produce power at a reduced overall efficiency. you'd probably be better off taking that same power from the motor with the alternator.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,637 admin
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    Appears to be on open ocean racing yacht--So I would doubt it will have an engine... Don't know the rules as to how they power their electronics. Appears to be solar panels on the back deck... I would guess that they probably don't allow any fuel driving motors in the class at all (perhaps emergency motors--but you would break a seal to operate--and automatically loose the race).

    If they allowed fuel+gensets for the race--I could not imagine that they would want the drag of that huge egg beater on the stern.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,313 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    Soilent Green is PEOPLE!!!!!ARGH!!

    T
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    i didn't look up how it was spelled tony so i don't know if your spelling is right or not, but yup you caught my drift as people and vegamatics don't mix.:cry:
    i also am showing how much i know about boats.:blush:
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,429 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??
    BB. wrote: »
    Appears to be on open ocean racing yacht--So I would doubt it will have an engine... Don't know the rules as to how they power their electronics. Appears to be solar panels on the back deck... -Bill

    Are you kidding, they have panels over the whole cabin, and cabin sides. Likely enough to run the hot tub.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,313 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    Niel,

    Two weeks ago I have never heard of Soilet Green. A friend of mine sent be a cryptic note about the color of something,,, the only thing he said was "Soilet green is people!" I thought he was loosing it,, but the next night I saw a reference to the Movie! And now you. I am beginning to get creeped out here!

    Tony
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: ?? Dual reflector technology ??

    i think tony has entered the twilight zone.:p hey, at least i didn't make reference to george ramero's dawn of the dead where a helicopter slices off the zombie's head. btw, that movie was made near me as that mall is about 5 miles away. the original night of the living dead (dawn of the dead's predecessor) was also filmed in the pittsburgh area.
  • cow_ranchercow_rancher Solar Expert Posts: 117 ✭✭✭✭
    Soylent Green

    Oh yeah, 1973, i remember watching it in my 240Z at the drive in with my girl friend... OK, maybe I missed part of the movie.

    Rancher
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