Can internal Trace Xantrex timings be changed?

InverterUserInverterUser Registered Users Posts: 2

We have the stacked Trace/Xantrex SW4048 inverter. Still working great. We have it connected to batteries and a generator (through its AC2 input). When grid power goes down, and LCBO goes low enough, the generator turns on as expected. With good voltage on AC2 for about 30 seconds, the inverter switches over to generator just fine.

But then when grid power comes back on (AC1 good), the inverter waits 4 minutes or longer before it will switch back to AC1. During that time, it is running our small battery pack down and down. It says AC2 is good in just 30 seconds, but takes over 4 minutes to say AC1 is good. I know this is not because the grid power is unstable or bad - it will behave this way when the grid is on perfectly and I'm just switching the grid power off to test the inverter.

It has always behaved this way, so I suspect this is normal behavior - to wait longer on a good AC1 than AC2.

I would really like to shorten the time the inverter waits to accept power from AC1. I find nothing in the setup menus to control this wait time. Is there something anyone has found that allows me to change this? Two minutes would be way better!

Is there some way to enter a hidden setup menu that is not in the manual? Or have I missed a setup parameter in the manual?

Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks very much for having this forum where we can post about these inverters.

Comments

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The time delay is to allow the grid to stabilize, it may take several attempts to restore power depending how the grid is loaded. The delay prevents short cycling if the grid goes down shortly after restoring, standby generators use the same delay.

    Can't say if this delay is adjustable though I think it unlikely, but one question, wouldn't the generator be running to cover the small battery capacity anyway? 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It seems to me the values for grid qualification (frequency etc) may by default  be significantly wider in AC2 for generator input than for grid.

    My Outbacks have a settable delay on generator input to allow for warm-up, but I suspect the timing of grid input connection  on your inverter based on qualifying alone, so the timing may just be the inverter being picky on value(s).  If so, you may be able to shorten qualification time by widening qualification value(s)?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,976 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All of this is possible with the XW. The old SW's have no external user interface to change the preset values. XW has the configuration tool, the combox and the gateway.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • paulcheungpaulcheung Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭✭
    All of this is possible with the XW. The old SW's have no external user interface to change the preset values. XW has the configuration tool, the combox and the gateway.
    Dave, 
    The Combox can't adjust the 5 minutes qualifying time, Can it? I think it should be under the configuration tool like the frequency change.
    XW6848+ Magnum 4448PAE (Backup) 7800 watts total mixed Panels, 370 AH @48volts battery bank. Grid assist and soon be Tied.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,976 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2019 #6
    You can change the transfer switch speed. The stock XW is default set at 12 seconds. It could be set at 1 second to many minutes. At this point it is the quality of the AC coming in that determines the total speed of the system. A person with a genset can make it long enough for the genset to warm-up before loading.

    Nothing on the old SW's is really good for a grid-tie. If it works fine. Short of that the XW brought to the world all of the graphs, data, configuration that modern hybrid inverters have. Yours is a dinosaur and really should be sold to someone offgrid. They are great offgrid if the owner does not care about "seeing" their power system.

    XW is also a DSP design. This allows firmware to be field installed and many parameters to be field calibrated.. Yours had to be sent back to Xantrex.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • InverterUserInverterUser Registered Users Posts: 2
    Thank you all for the clarifications about my SW. I'd been considering new inverters, but since our SW's continue to do their job, I'm not highly motivated. And they are quite heavy to move, as everyone knows.

    Our solution to our generator switch-over and back again timing issue is to increase our battery capacity significantly. Silly in a way, since with the generator we don't actually need the extra capacity, but that is what is needed when the grid comes back on and the SW waits its pre-programned 4 or 5 minutes to connect to the grid, during which time it has auto-shut off the generator.

    If we did upgrade to a more customizable system, given our 48v batteries, grid-tie, solar panels and generator, there don't seem to be too many systems out there to replace our stacked SW4048. The XW and the Outback come to mind - are there other systems with that degree of flexibility and reliability? I haven't heard much good about Schneider, which surprised me, given how they bought out Xantrex, but that made sense that their quality suffered when I heard Trace/Xantrex' engineers went over to Outback.



  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2019 #8
    Inverteruser quote; Thank you all for the clarifications about my SW. I'd been considering new inverters, but since our SW's continue to do their job, I'm not highly motivated. And they are quite heavy to move, as everyone knows



    I thought I knew all about how heavy the Trace/Xantrex inverters were. Then I picked up a 5548, or shall I say I bought one. I truly believe the 5548's cannot be picked up by a single human. 

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,976 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your timeline is a bit off. When Outback started, the next year or so Xantrex came out with the XW, the first true split phase inverter power system, all in one. A complete DSP based system with it's own fanless mppt charge controller and field update of firmware. Nobody was doing that then and for many years after. I remember an email to the xantrex user forum where Jeff Everett wrote about the XW to Bob from Outback (then) that XW meant Xantrex wins. Everett drove initial development stages of XW Series – from establishing team
    and functional specifications through A-model prototyping and testing
    under Sandia National Laboratories “High Reliability Inverter Initiative”.
    
    They also built a solid reliable system that many call bulletproof. They sold to Schneider about 2010 and Schneider came out with the worlds first 600V mppt. A year or so later the combox was released with the ability to "see" the system graphically. I am leaving out a few other items but to me they have always been the best available and I have not seen their quality slip one bit all the way back to Trace. Solid world class manufacturing of quality equipment. They have had some failures as most companies do. I have done field testing for offgrid for them since 2005.

    Most of the issues on the forum here are from DIY folks and I agree Outback supports that better with their user forum. I still have a Trace 4024 in the shed.

    You are welcome and below is a link to the newest XW6848 (10 year warranty) and its new com system gateway/insight.  Either a radian or XW and you will be fine.
    https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/353921/new-inverter-xw-pro-new-conext-gateway-with-easy-remote-monitoring-on-conext-insight-2#latest
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

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