Xw+ 5558 ac coupled smart charging?

weatherspotter

On each of its two bi-directional AC input ports, the Conext XW is equipped with a relay that closes only when the AC source is qualified (within the user- adjustable range). Closing the relay connects the AC source directly to the AC output terminals of the Conext XW. In this pass-through mode, the Conext XW stays in charge mode and charges the battery bank. If the grid voltage and frequency are within limits, then-after a five minute delay-the Xantrex GT/Conext TX PV string inverter will harvest the solar energy from the array. This energy will be consumed by the AC loads and used by the Conext XW to charge the battery, following the normal three-stage charging process. Any excess energy will be exported to the grid (either through the Conext XW or through a separate transfer switch and Feed-in meter connection, depending on the applicable regulations within the jurisdiction where the system is installed).

installed).

From this I gathered that the xw has a similar feature to the “smart charging” feature of the SW. I can’t seem to make my xw work this way and tech support says that the xw can’t.  
Does anyone know how to configure an ac coupled system to recharge only as excess energy is flowing out to the grid?

I have full net metering for 9.5 more years but want to self consume if possible.

my system is a 3.5 kw solar edge system (self installed) and the new xw 5558 with 10.5 kw simphi battery bank set up as a whole house back up. I have the scp but I have not gotten my new Gateway yet (ship date for moved back to March  but I should get one of the first units ) 

I am able to grid support and peak shave just fine and if I turn off the grid impute the ac coupled function works great. I want to know why it can’t charge while grid connected using extra solar power???? Seems like the smaller SW is not a good fit for me but has more features for self consumption than the xw? 

Any setting work arounds to do what I want? 

Thanks 
Ben

weatherspotter

Bump for ideas on Ac coupled maximizing self consumption..

MisterSandals

weatherspotter said:

From this I gathered that the xw has a similar feature to the “smart charging” feature of the SW. I can’t seem to make my xw work this way and tech support says that the xw can’t.  
Does anyone know how to configure an ac coupled system to recharge only as excess energy is flowing out to the grid?

I want to know why it can’t charge while grid connected using extra solar power???? Seems like the smaller SW is not a good fit for me but has more features for self consumption than the xw? 

No need to wonder if the SW is a good fit if you are seeking this functionality because it does not work as advertised.

I found posts in several forums asking about this without resolution. My first couple attempts working with Schneider support had the cases inexplicably closed.

I seem to have several on board that this is a problem but their basic understanding of AC coupling is astoundingly low. They cannot agree as to what AC Support Voltage means or what it does; I got 100% conflicting explanations about this.

I suspect a major bug in AC Coupling Smart Charge feature. It cannot charge when input on AC Output (critical loads panel fedfrom solar micro inverter in my case) and then invert to AC Output (critical loads panel) at sun down.

it can absolutely detect the 2 scenarios and has no physical constraint from handling the 2 scenarios.  Just a software but that should be VERY easy to fix.

C’mon Schneider, you software sucks in a dozen ways that should have been fixed years ago.

Dave Angelini

Need to be very specific on models or you are in apples and oranges. Some models had zero room left in memory for firmware updating.

There is the Xantrex SW and the Schneider CSW. There are 3 models now of XW.  Old greybox XW,  XW+  and XW pro.

The OP never stated if he had up to date firmware and this is a big problem with DIY that I see.

AC coupling shows on Insight for grid tie and soon for offgrid. I will dig up a screenshot. The Insight Cloud shot below shows a generator.

MisterSandals

Hi Dave, thanks for chiming in.
>There is the Xantrex SW and the Schneider CSW.

Good point! I did not consider the different models, particularly for this, which sounds like a software/firmware issue.  
I am referring to the Conext SW4048 with the latest firmware 3.12.00bn1 (july 2020 ??) also InsightHome with latest 1.18 BN41

Hoping not to sidetrack this thread any more, i have a thread with my issue on the Schneider site detailing my (related? same?) issue.
I sent a message to you from this site also ponting you to this thread (before i saw this response).

https://community.se.com/t5/Ask-the-Community/Conext-SW4048-AC-Couple-Smart-Charge/m-p/459514#M4513

Open and appreciative of comments and ideas from everybody!

Dave Angelini

I doubt your link is going to get any feedback from the Schneider global website. You need to be asking questions at the Schneider Solar Inverter  division website. Even better to    https://solar.se.com/us/en/support/   or below.  I keep hearing from them that few ever feedback their issues.

Enhanced support file below.   Smart charge is that not being able to charge a dead battery? Or is it being able to charge from a 120vac or 240 vac generator?

Better yet a new thread on your issue is best! The thread above is old and hopefully solved. Alot of people come to the forum once and I think it is best when they try to give something back. The Store here pays for it all and they really are amazing!

weatherspotter

As the OP I did have a XW+ with the latest firmware. 

what it boiled down to is that its very hard to have the inverter watch the AC pass through power flow and siphon some off for battery charging. although this seems simple to me in concept a long email and phone call with a Schinder engineer told me its hard..... Their inverters are much better suited to DC power inputs and can work with AC coupled just fine but don't ask the inverter to do any limited sell to home or zero export with AC coupled solar.

saying all that, the inverter did great in grid down charging the batteries from AC solar. I did end up adding a smaller DC coupled array and loved it. Never can have enough solar 😃.

I ended up selling that home with the solar and it's still working great for the new owner.

in the new place I did version 2.0 and went full DC coupled and am trying a Solark. it works but I like the Schider stuff for its commercial build quality and robust features. Now if they can just upgrade that internal really to 100A or 200A then they would have a competitive offering.    

MisterSandals

Thanks for pointing me in a better direction but there isn't a forum or even chat support for solar.  I have had about a dozen calls to support, quite a few while they access my system online.
I mostly wanted a place to keep track of this because my ticket keep getting closed and it takes a long time to get a new ticket up to speed.

  
The "Enhanced Support" (doc you attached) is only applicable if there is a battery monitor, BMS or one or more Xanbus-enabled MPPT solar charge controllers (such as MPPT 60-150 or MPPT 80-600).  These provide the SoC, via Xanbus, to the inverter.
I do not have any of those $600-$1500 items.  So enhanced support and all the SoC based controls are not used (they better not be anyway, and they should be hidden or at the very least disabled in InsightHome.  Terrible user interface).

But I did read the enhanced support doc to try to learn something new.  The enhanced support says it is smart enough to switch between charging and inverting.  I'm just expecting the system to do this without SoC info, as specified in the AC Coupling Smart Charge description based on battery voltage (shown below).



Here is how its supposed to work without "enhanced Support":
>
>>
Regular AC Support without Xanbus devices

If no Xanbus-enabled devices, such as an MPPT charge controller, are connected to the power system, then entry and exit into AC support mode is based solely on battery voltage monitored by Conext SW. If the battery voltage is above a set limit (AC Supp Volts), then AC support mode is engaged.

<imagine attached diagram here>

With its charger enabled, the Conext SW enters AC support mode only after completing a charge cycle when it is first powered up or reconnected to the grid. For regular AC support mode set the Conext SW’s battery charge cycle to 2StgNoFloat to allow AC Support feature to function immediately after the absorption charge stage.
>>

The issue I see is that it NEVER starts charging when there is power coming into AC Out.  This is EXACTLY what the AC Coupling Smart Charge is all about!  It simply DOES NOT WORK.

I have to manually turn off AC Support Mode to charge.  Then at sundown, manually turn on AC Support Mode to invert (aka AC Support).

It clearly does not work as specified.

Is there a way to get beyond the "customer support" and on to engineering?  I've seen a few tickets just get closed when support is stumped.  I was a software engineer for decades and can recognize a bad bug when i see it.  And, I embraced the opportunity to fix them.  I fear there is a disconnect between support and engineering for bug reporting.

Dave Angelini

XW pro was built with the memory to run 3 or 4 different AC coupling modes (The states keep changing requirements) that I know of.
 It also works well with combination AC and DC coupling and with BCS can back-up a 200A service.

 Unlike XW+ the Pro is not only triggered by voltage, but works really well with Soc from a battery BMS.  Good Luck to you !