XW+ 6848 AC2 Load Support

goodolemegoodoleme Posts: 3Registered Users
Hello all,

I have a XW+ 6848 with a 60-150 cc and 3k of solar with 440ah bb.  Ac1 is connected to the grid and grid support is turned on and sell is disabled. GSV is set to 64v(EGS), everything is working great, battery bank is fully charged and ac loads are powered via solar.

Now on to the part I don"t understand, I went out and got a Honda EU7000 as my genset, wired it into ac2 and tested it. What I found out was it was only charging the bb and or running the loads. None of my solar was supporting the loads like on ac1. Called Schneider and was told load support can't be done on ac2.

I thought, well I can install the genset in the main panel and the 6848 will not know if its grid or genset, I will just lose the generator support and gen support plus. I thought with sell disabled it will never back feed into ac1 or ac2 only with sell enabled and maximum sell amps set to 0.

I live in Florida and have lost power for weeks after a hurricane and I thought the EU7000 would be a great voltage source sine wave for the inverter to inject current when the grid is down and the sun is out. It will save me on fuel and I would not need to add more panels / bb-ahs.

Not sure what I should do here, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Neil

Comments

  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,957Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    I've got the XW  (no +) and it's AC2 does generator support+ just fine.   You may have to disable Grid support for AC1 before AC2 Gen support will activate.   But you won't like the way the auto-throttle won't work with the load support - they can fight each other, a load comes on, and if the auto-throttle is not fast enough the inverter will see the voltage sag and try to support at the same time the genset is ramping up.  You could get a race condition where both are fighting for control.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,088Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    This is basic genset / solar strategy for using both chargers. I am a bit surprised that they did not tell you. This goes back to the 1960's offgrid.

    You have to set the solar charge voltage a couple tenths of a volt higher than the generator charge voltage. The solar will output max power and the generator will back off its loading. As clouds come in the genset will take over charging. It is perfect for the genset you chose!

    Good Luck with the hurricanes.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • goodolemegoodoleme Posts: 3Registered Users
    Thanks Mike for the response, the generator support and generator support plus works fine on the ac2 input. Its grid support / load support or what ever industry term the mfg uses that does not work on the ac2 input. The xw+ is able to inject power onto the ac bus by making its output voltage slightly higher than the ac bus voltage. This power can come from the battery or a charge controller. This is working fine with ac1 input just not on ac2. Hope this clears up things.
  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,957Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    I think some basics are being missed.
    AC1 = Grid
    AC2 =  Generator

    Grid gets one set of features,  Generator gets another.   You cannot  (should not) backfeed a Generator on AC2, instead AC2 gets the Generator Support feature, when ALL your settings are correct, (generator size) and your load exceeds the generator's programed rating, the inverter throttles back charging and can begin adding power in parallel to the generator to prevent it from overloading.
     But you have to get all your settings done right.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,088Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Mike is correct about the basics! There are no loads as you say on AC1 or AC2! They are inputs! The AC buss as you say is the inverter output!
    It is all about getting settings correct to make this work right.

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • goodolemegoodoleme Posts: 3Registered Users

    Dave, I never said anything about "loads" on ac1 or ac2, I know they are ac inputs. I don't think you or Mike understand what I am asking.

    Again I want the xw to inject power (current) into the ac2 voltage source sine wave via the inverter from the dc bus via solar or battery. This is working great on the voltage source sine wave from the grid via ac1 input. The xw+ is a voltage source and a current source inverter, that's what is nice about it!

    AC1 in-> Grid, voltage source sine wave in, split-phase / single-phase three-wire (240/120/60) 

    AC2 in ->Genset, voltage source sine wave in, split-phase / single-phase three-wire (240/120/60)

    AC-out
    1) When inverting from dc to ac its a voltage source sine wave, split-phase / single-phase three-wire (240/120/60)

    2) When supporting the loads, it is a current source inverter injecting current on to a voltage source sine wave and this can only be done via ac1s input.

    So like I said, I can install the genset in the panel that the inverter gets its power from and the inverter will only use ac1 in and this will work or use a transfer switch on ac1 with the genset. But i will lose the gen support and gen support plus.

    I am just not sure why the xw will not inject current onto the ac2s input voltage source sine wave.

    The Outback GS8048a-01 will work like this.

    Thanks again for all of you help,
    Take Care
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,088Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Did you read post # 3? The genset on AC2 will reduce its output if the battery voltage increases from the solar. Again the settings!
    Try it you will like it!  Been doing this stuff for decades!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,957Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    > I am just not sure why the xw will not inject current onto the ac2s input voltage source sine wave.

    It is NOT supposed to.  AC2 is designed only for generator connection.  It is an INPUT only.   If the XW backfed a generator, you would be very unhappy and have to purchase a new generator.

      The AC1 & AC2 connect internally through the internal transfer relays to the inverter's LOAD output.   All your loads connect there.   The XW can sense what is coming in from AC2 (Genset) and what the LOAD is, and what is happening at the battery,  it's CPU sorts it all out, and if YOU set all the parameters correctly, it works.   
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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