Conext XW+6848 Grid Support mode not working

Hi:
I recently installed a Schneider Conext XW+6848 for Solar PV self consumption with Grid Support mode. The way I understood it the PV panels + batteries would work off grid and the inverter inverting as long as the charge controller (Outback Flexmax 80) output DC voltage is above Grid Support Voltage set at 49.5v. I  have Sell = Disable and not  running Enhance Grid Support. Also AC Priority = unknown since my choices are AC1 or AC2 and if AC1 (grid) is selected inverting stops and status = ACPassThru all the time. Power consumption in AC1 reads 3w (129v  0 to .1A fluctuating) in the Meters menu option. No input in AC2 connected. No other schneider equipment installed.

Is my logic wrong or Am I missing something? Thanks.

Comments

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018 #2
    If I'm not mistaken, the XW would use information from the charge controller or Conext battery monitor  to determine state of charge communicated over Xanbus, since your controller cannot communicate with the inverter and there is no battery  monitor , it may not have this capability.
    Perhaps someone more knowledgeable such as @Dave Angelini  could confirm whether this is the case, think I read this somewhere in a manual, but don't use grid personally.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You could call Schneider and ask them if this is new and under warranty?

    I always have my clients use the same equipment and not mix it because if they have problems there is much more chance that a company like Schneider or Outback will be of help. There is always a time issue with support people and it is very easy to blame the the other company. There are quite a few other setting that you need to set BTW. How are you changing the setting if you have only the XW+?

    I am out of time, good luck!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • medbillermedbiller Registered Users Posts: 4
    This is my first installation and I've come to realize exactly that, same brand in all mayor components will increase the chance of maximizing all the advertised features. Nevertheless, when any reputable company advertises these features they should include a disclaimer stating that any particular feature can only be implemented with same brand equipment. In the case of Schneider Electric Conext XW+6848, they do say that for ENHANCED GRID SUPPORT you need a same company charge controller. But they don't say it for non enhanced mode which is what I'm trying to accomplish. Thank you.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Write it off to the learning curve!  With only 2 posts here you have learned alot already!  It takes some time to learn this!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • WaterWheelWaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭✭
    I have a 3 year old XW+6848 but it doesn't have Enhanced Grid Support.      I ran it for the 1st year with a Magnum charge controller and the grid support feature worked fine.     It only cares about what the battery voltage is no matter whether the controller is sending power or not.

    Do you have Grid Support enabled?      simple to miss that one...     
    As suggested by others perhaps the updated software from the Enhanced Grid Support feature makes the grid support require that the controller and inverter talk.       

    Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, 60/150 controller and Conext battery monitor

    21 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

    48v Rolls 6CS 27P

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He said he only has an XW+ and he would need to have an SCP, combox, or config tool to change settings. I asked him about this but......

    Your XW+ can be updated to the latest firmware ;)

    How is the water wheel business?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • WaterWheelWaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭✭
    Since he has the ability to adjust settings like Grid Support voltages I assumed he had some ability to change programming.    My inability to program the Magnum controller is why I swapped to a Conext controller. 

    I'm quite happy with the XW+ performance and would be weary of updating the programming.      Currently everything is working smoothly.       
    And the water wheel business was very strong last year but a little soft the last few months, still, I'm making sawdust most days and starting to make metal wheels.

    Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, 60/150 controller and Conext battery monitor

    21 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

    48v Rolls 6CS 27P

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sawdust is nice! making quite a bit myself. The smell of a woodshop :) Spring is so nice, if it could last thru summer.....

    There have been quite a few improvements added but if you do not need them I get it. You can download the firmware and in the file there will be an acrobat file of all the historical changes for the device. If you do decide to do anything, update your combox first. There was recent firmware to make recovering a dead or bricked device easy. That can happen to someone who is learning or not following exactly.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • medbillermedbiller Registered Users Posts: 4
    I only have the inverter (6848 XW+) with the SCM (as the front panel that comes with it is just a glorified on/off switch and unusable for programming). Grid Support is enabled. I'm doing everything as advertised and NOT using Enhanced Grid Support. Got the unit right after CAT 10 MARIA sometime in oct-nov 2017 and have not updated firmware. So far working great and harvesting an average of 10KwH daily but Grid Support as advertised not working.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have only heard of cat 1 thru  5 hurricanes... The manual states you need an SCP or better to program an XW. The advanced functions must be programmed in by the user or installer.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • medbillermedbiller Registered Users Posts: 4
    Hearing is one thing...live it and you'll see...
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most of my hurricane experience was in avoiding them.....

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe Beaufort force 10 (full gale)?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A force 10 is nothing compared to CAt 5 wind speeds. A walk in the park !
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know... F10 maybe 1/2 the wind speed of cat5. Was thinking maybe medbiller heard a report with Beaufort speed, and was in an area that didn't get the full brunt of the storm. Cat5= get the hell out of the way!
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • ccsolarccsolar Registered Users Posts: 2
    Was this post ever resolved?  I recently bought a Conext xw pro and am having exactly the same issue. Im using 2 victron charge controllers to charge a battery bank in a grid tied DC coupled system.

    I want to use grid support and not sell back to the power company. The charge controllers shouldn't matter as I should be able to "grid support" at night directly from my batteries.  If I set the setting to sell to the grid setting it will invert to ac1 from the battery bank but it will not when the setting is set to sell disabled. I see it inverting more than I'm using via a sense monitor.

    I bought this unit for this exact feature. I've noticed in the meter on the optional control panel that there appears to be little load on ac1, likely just the inverter itself detecting the grid. 

    It feels like this feature only works for loads attached to ac2. Is this the he case before u go and buy a com box to try and upgrade the firmware. 

    Thanks
    Chris
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There will be a 24/7 load  from AC1 input to keep the unit from selling. I can't offer advice with most of this as the mppt's are not schneider and can't communicate with the network.


    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • paulcheungpaulcheung Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭
    ccsolar said:
    Was this post ever resolved?  I recently bought a Conext xw pro and am having exactly the same issue. Im using 2 victron charge controllers to charge a battery bank in a grid tied DC coupled system.

    I want to use grid support and not sell back to the power company. The charge controllers shouldn't matter as I should be able to "grid support" at night directly from my batteries.  If I set the setting to sell to the grid setting it will invert to ac1 from the battery bank but it will not when the setting is set to sell disabled. I see it inverting more than I'm using via a sense monitor.

    I bought this unit for this exact feature. I've noticed in the meter on the optional control panel that there appears to be little load on ac1, likely just the inverter itself detecting the grid. 

    It feels like this feature only works for loads attached to ac2. Is this the he case before u go and buy a com box to try and upgrade the firmware. 

    Thanks
    Chris
    Chris what is the exact problem do you have? I use the same XW6848+ and I use Outback charge controllers. Mine working as how I wanted. If you can tell me what you exactly want the XW6848+ to do, may be we can find a solution together. 
    Cheers.
    XW6848+ Magnum 4448PAE (Backup) 7800 watts total mixed Panels, 370 AH @48volts battery bank. Grid assist and soon be Tied.
  • JRoqueJRoque Registered Users Posts: 1
    Hi all, first post here.

    To OP: If you can't make Grid Support work, try Load Shaving. Grid Support = enabled, Load Shaving = Enabled, ensure your Load Shave Start/Stop times are within what you need, Load Shave Amps = 0. There will be a minimal draw from the grid in this mode but I think you're ok with that (or else disconnect grid breaker). You may be able to reduce this grid load somewhat with Sell Mode = Enabled, Max Sell Amps = 0

    To get Grid Support working, set your Grid Support Voltage higher as 49.5 seems low and probably running into some other battery setting. Schneider has a great sense of humor regarding hysteresis and values overlap each other in several places. Just for a test, set your Grid Support Volt = 52 and see if it works.

    Regards,
    JR

    PS: Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Wind Scale goes from 1 to 5.
  • ccsolarccsolar Registered Users Posts: 2
    Sorry for not posting back. I worked out the issue. I'm new to this so I'm still learning. For grid support to work you must have a critical load panel. Grid support only supports the critical load panel. I installed one and it now works. 

    I'm having a new issue however. Despite setting the lbco value to 39.5v, hysteresys to 1.0v and grid support to 40v the inverter stops inverting at 42.5v in grid support mode until the batteries are charged to 4v above the lbco value, 43.5 in my case. I'd like to run grid support to 40v. 

    Anyone have any idea how I can make that 4v recharge range smaller or how I can set this differently?  Note if I shut the grid power off it will invert down to the lbco value. 

    Thanks
    Chris
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30 #22
    A critical load panel is nice but the inverter will do what it is programmed to do. A load is a load. Your house other loads were probably too large.
    You are up against the grid support specs and the values that were used when UL approved the inverter.
    You could write Schneider and request this.
    https://solar.schneider-electric.com/contact-us/
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • ZimInSeattleZimInSeattle Registered Users Posts: 5
    Hi all, new here. I appear to be having the same issue as the original post. I have a 6848 XW+, ComBox, SCP, Batrium BMS, solar is AC coupled into main panel. I have grid support enabled. When battery voltage gets down to within 0.5 volts of Recharge Voltage, inverter goes into AC Passthru mode. I was expecting inverter to support the AC critical load panel down to the Recharge Voltage setting and then charger would start up. It's as if the inverter is in load shave mode where it supposed to go into pass thru 0.5 volts above recharge voltage setting. Load shave is not enabled. If I leave it set this way, battery will never get down to recharge voltage. Any idea what settings I need to change? THanks.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Who installed the system and when please? There are so many interactive settings in an XW and a Radian that it can make your head spin.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • ZimInSeattleZimInSeattle Registered Users Posts: 5
    I installed the system over the last couple months. Just turned it on for the first time Sunday. Still trying to get things dialed in but it's working well overall. Any insights on settings I may have missed would be great. Thanks.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the past, a person with your issue would have to list all of the settings, loads, and the AC couple equipment solar. Alot of things and they would have to hope that they were getting good advice. That has changed with the conext gateway. Someone like me can peak into your system and see what is up. You really should have bought the gateway as combox is out of support life.

    I would just say keep reading and watch a few videos. In this thread is the contact info for Schneider. You should at least feed this back to them. I doubt they will be able to help because you do not have the gateway. They are not focused on DIY either. FYI, if I were to help it would be a 500 fee because there is too much time to go thru, without a gateway. Good Luck!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • ZimInSeattleZimInSeattle Registered Users Posts: 5
    edited July 1 #27
    Thanks for the advice Dave Angelini. I'll just keep reading and tweaking the system until it's dialed in.

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes keep at it. The OP here was having enhanced grid support issues with a DC coupled system. Yours are different with AC coupled and could be also caused by the grid inverter and how it frequency shifts.

     So you added a battery inverter to an existing grid inverter right. I have to say that is even more difficult to configure than just selling from the battery inverter. That is so much more work than what we have to do for offgrid. What you are doing is the hardest challenge. At least you can use it as is for its main purpose in an outage. I feel sorry that you got sold the combox. That is going to be useless for you. I would try and get them to take it back and sell you something that will be useful. Tell me it was not the store here at wind & sun :'(

    Here is a link from Schneider on this.

    https://aeesolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/AC-Coupling-and-Frequency-Shifting-DC2018.pdf
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • ZimInSeattleZimInSeattle Registered Users Posts: 5
    The issue I'm having was happening before I AC coupled into the critical load panel. Now I have 32 solar world 275 watt panels with Enphase M250 microinverters going to my main panel and 7 SW290 panels with IQ7 microinverters going into critical load panel. I have the question posed to Schneider but have not heard back. There's also a setting called Grid Voltage Support Enable/Disable that is not described anywhere in the manual. I've tried enabling this to see if it has any effect. I had settled on the ComBox as it does what I thought I needed and it is quite a bit less expensive than the gateway. I mistakenly thought gateway was only compatible with XW Pro which is way more $ than XW+. I originally only wanted the 5548 XW+ but apparently it's no longer available. I have read a great deal about AC coupling before adding the XW+. My thinking was the IQ7 micros have the frequency shift power curtailment feature where the M250's will just shut off completely in an outage so that's why the IQ7's are now coupled to load panel. My purpose here is more energy arbitrage rather than backup power. The power here has never gone out for more than a few seconds in the past 7 years we've lived here. Maybe I can get my supplier to swap out the ComBox for a gateway if you really think this would be best.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Definitely swap out the combox. The XW pro is actually lower in price now than XW+. It does vary with suppliers, as they can charge whatever they want. Mine show xwp are a few % less since May. The combox is fine but there is no support and it is on the discontinued equipment list at Schneider.

    Arrg micro inverters and selling battery power to the grid. Hurts my head but I know it can be done and I have done it. Arrgggg a good reminder why I live offgrid  ;)
     
    Good Luck!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • ZimInSeattleZimInSeattle Registered Users Posts: 5
    My supplier has agreed to swap out my ComBox for a Gateway! Thanks for all your help.
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