small 48V inverter

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mike95490
mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
Well, if the Morning star SureSine came in a 48V model, I'd be happy. Anyone know if they have plans for a 48V version ? I know they have a 24V version, but I'll be installing a 48V system.

Suggestions ?

The main inverter will be a Xantrex XW6048, but that is a lot to idle all night for a couple of needed night lights and motion sensors.
Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

Comments

  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    you have a point mike and a use for such an inverter, but most do not think of 48v systems as being small for even the battery bank for it would most likely consist of 4 100ah 12v batteries at a minimum. you might want to ask them if there's any possibility of this coming to be. other methods of voltage manipulation will result in the use of that much or more of the power that the switch to that type of inverter would've saved. hope my wording isn't confusing too much here.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    If your power requirements are very low maybe you could 'down convert' the 48V to run a smaller inverter? Kind of jerry-rigged I know but ...
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    that was my point as a downconverter will use power just to supply the 24v required by the 24v inverter. remember the more conversions the higher the losses. this would negate the gains going to the small inverter from the xw making the effort and expense a waste.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    True, and the next thing you know you're getting all crazy with a separate 24V battery bank charged off the 48 with another controller ...

    So I guess the thing to look at is how much the Xantrex is going to use idling to provide how much "low current" availability vs. installing a whole 'nother system.

    Just guessing, but it doesn't sound cost effective does it? :D
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    Check with our host NAWS (call them directly--they normally do not "conduct business" through this support website).

    From the Exeltech NAWS web page:
    We can also order all of the MX series. The XP series are also available in 32, 48, 66, and 108 volt DC input on special order - typically 2-3 weeks. Prices somewhat higher. We can special order any Exeltech product.
    Their XP line goes down to 125 watts... You will have to go to their website or call Exeltech directly to see what their no-load/standby current is... I would doubt it is as low as the Morning Star 300 TSW of 55mA at 12 volts.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    Mike, forget a second inverter, for the price get another solar panel and forget about TAR losses.

    My XW-6048 is active, only load now is the Heat Pump electronics, its pulling 12 watts. It pulls more like 50 watts when grid-tie enabled with no selling.

    Having a second unit is just something else to break, or manually configure ect ... the efficiency gains aren't worth it
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    Yea--the DC standby load of an Xantrex XW inverter is rated at <8 watts according to the specs... Almost every other inverter out there has its own 6-8 watts of standby power too.

    An extra 50-120 watts of solar panel will make up for the 8 watt loss (depending on how much sun you get):

    8 watts * 24 hours * 1/3 hours of sun per day = 64 watts of solar panels

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter
    Mike, forget a second inverter, for the price get another solar panel and forget about TAR losses.

    My XW-6048 is active, only load now is the Heat Pump electronics, its pulling 12 watts. It pulls more like 50 watts when grid-tie enabled with no selling.

    Having a second unit is just something else to break, or manually configure ect ... the efficiency gains aren't worth it


    That's sort of what I expected, I just wanted to confirm it before locking into a system. This will be for a large shop, off grid, to run wood saws (table & circular) drills, etc... May have a gas power air compressor, and I might add a 48V charger to it. Most usage will be daytime, and the PV's and small battery bank should handle the load. Nighttime needs a security light and maybe for cams that relay to a remote hard drive. (video is worthless if thief takes the content) This is going to start as a minimal system, and expand as loads grow, initial battery bank will be 1 string of 6V golf cart batteries.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • dagr51
    dagr51 Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    [HTML]I know they have a 24V version[/HTML]

    Whoa! I've been all over the NAWS site but cannot find a 24v version of the Morningstar Suresine inverter. Does it truly exist?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    All MorningStar has on their website is a 12 volt input 300 watt inverter... The two options are a 115v @ 60hz and a 220v @ 50 Hz...

    The only "24v" devices I could find are some of their charge controllers.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • dagr51
    dagr51 Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    It seems to me that a suresine 24v inverter would sure play nice with their mppt controller @ 24v 400w!
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    my error:cry: as you guys are right:blush: that it is only 12v and substituting 12v where i said 24v would make the post accurate in its content, but my general point stays the same as it presents an extra loss in converting it for the suresine.
  • arkieoscar
    arkieoscar Solar Expert Posts: 101 ✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    Couldn't you just pick off 12 or 24 volts off of the battery bank? With this small load, I wouldn't think it would unbalance a large battery.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    Pretty much never pick a voltage/current off of a battery bank (i.e., 12 volts from a 48 volt bank).

    This causes the amount of charge in the cells to become unbalanced and the only way to get the battery bank back in balance (all cells recharged to 100%) is to equalize/over charge the cells in the other 36 volts. You end up boiling the electrolyte/needing more water--and wasting energy (in this example, at best, the 12 volt conversion would be 25% efficient and 75% is wasted in boiling the bank to recharge the 12 volt cells).

    With sealed batteries (such as AGM), doing this you even run more of a chance to kill your batteries by overcharging and causing cell overheating and venting.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small 48V inverter

    I'd thought they had a 24V option - guess I was wrong.
    http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/sure-sine
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,