Got my 24 volt "diesel locomotive/forklift" battery bank going!

softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
That is kind of exciting. It was a chore to be honest. Unloading batteries that weigh close to 300 pounds will keep your attention.

I have three 8 volt batteries that measure 7.8 volts after sitting for a very long time. They were pretty easy to hook up for charging. Before measurement: 23.6 volts. Simmering a bit now with an ~360 watt charge.

They took about three gallons of distilled water. Then I read the directions for my chemical de-sulfator experiment. First thing to do? Drain the battery fluid level down to the plates. Then add the chemical de-sulfator. Well....of course. When does that not happen?

The hard part will be removing the bad cells from the other five batteries. Each cell has four large interconnects instead of two. Drilling through the tin/lead alloy does not go well after the first ~3/8"...or so. Using a hole saw now. May have to simply use a 1" drill bit and replace a lot of tin/lead alloy later on.

This has not been the easiest thing imaginable. Nor has it been unduly difficult. Most of all...it has been quite interesting.

As of today...I have an ~800 pound used battery with total costs about $500. Plus I got about $220 of scrap lead tossed in. If I can salvage another ~800 pound used battery, then I should be fine.

I live in a large pole barn. Lots of roof space. Lots of panels. Lots of inverters. Lots of charge controllers. Lots of batteries. Lots of cables. No money.
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries

Comments

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2016 #2
    Alright.....give me a cape. It has been earned this morning. I removed seven bad cells from five batteries. It gets almost routine after the first couple. This is what you need:

    1: Oil gun with a couple quarts of oil. Without squirting a lot of oil you may never remove the cells. Squirt the oil early and often.

     2: Drill with good 1/4" drill bit for pilot holes. Pretty large pilot hole you say? Well....I broke my 3/16" bit and then had quite a time with the rest of the drilling on that lug.

    8: Powerful drill with 90 degree grip for left hand. Good set of forearms. *1 1/8"* hole saw bit of exceptional quality. Mine costs $70 back in the 90's. The dealer would not sell it until I produced a business license. It is supposed to drill through almost anything. Rotate the bit a couple inches as you drill. Put some tape on the bit at the 1/2" mark. This will tell you where you stand in progress. The lead/tin lugs will probably let you know when you have drilled all the way through.  I used an 8 amp Milwaukee drill. I would think you may need at least 5 amps, maybe more, or a large, slow drill. NOTE: 1 1/8" proved to be the right size for the lugs on these forklift type batteries.

    If you only have to sever a couple lugs, you can probably get it done with a mainstream bi-metal hole saw bit. Just be patient and strong and rotate the bit as you drill. I had to sever ~28 lugs since these cells use four lugs instead of the normal two.

    9: Pry bar or very large screwdriver to confirm that the lugs have been completely severed. You will likely find a pry bar useful along the way. This is a job of separating heavy stuff that really, really does not want to separate.

    10: Engine hoist with the ability to connect it to a hay hook.

    11: Hay hook. This goes inside of the battery via the water cap hole. You will probably bend this right off the bat. It works better after it has been bent. You could also say that it has been "straightened" in a sense. If your hay hook is sharp, round off the tip so it won't readily penetrate the battery cells. Perhaps there is something better than a hay hook. I'm sure there is.

    12: Lots of rags or paper towels. This is a dirty job. You will need to clean the cell walls before sliding them down next to the other cells. Oil the walls after cleaning them.

    13: Dead blow hammer. Sometimes you just have to beat stuff up in order to win.

    14: Patience and strength. Double and triple check all you voltage readings before committing. It is pretty common to find that cells are not nearly as bad as you had thought.

    15: The good Lord's blessings. You may win. Then again...you may not. If this was easy, a lot more people would be doing it.

    So now I have two ~800 pound 24 volt batteries! With one extra cell reading two volts! I should have replaced the cell that was reading only 1.7 volts. Really should have. Well....it is kind of hard to do.

    Now....what to with 420 pounds of "bad" cells (7 sixty pound cells) reading from .3 volts to 1.4 volts? Has anybody here brought back a 2 volt cell that read less than 1.5 volts?
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    Has anybody here brought back a 2 volt cell that read less than 1.5 volts?
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    The overwhelming response has been hard to keep up with. :D

    Anyway...there are now two ~800 pound batteries showing 25 volts or better. I did great right? Probably not that great...consider that this bank had seven bad cells. More are sure to follow. Sure has been interesting and educational. My forearms look like Popeye's now.....j/k.

    Turns out that I made two mistakes along the way. Only a trip to Guantanamo will divulge the details.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭
    the next phase is to put a 'known load' ie '' X Amps , like .05 C,(20 hr rate) or less if too hard to cabbage together, for a specific amount of ,time and record the voltage every .5 hrs  for 4 hrs and the every 15 minutes for the fifth hour  and then recharge.  
    The test should (will) tell you which are the weak cells..
    Repeat after adjusting /removing poorest cells...if you can still do that...

    hth
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    the next phase is to put a 'known load' ie '' X Amps , like .05 C,(20 hr rate) or less if too hard to cabbage together, for a specific amount of ,time and record the voltage every .5 hrs  for 4 hrs and the every 15 minutes for the fifth hour  and then recharge.  
    The test should (will) tell you which are the weak cells..
    Repeat after adjusting /removing poorest cells...if you can still do that...

    hth
    Good idea! As can be seen, removing cells is so easy. :#

    I might pat myself on the back for a bit first. If nothing else, I am now a bona fide forklift battery cell swapper. One could likely make a decent living doing that if they marketed the service wisely.

    It really looks like most forklift batteries get replaced because 1-2 cells went bad. I "think" one bad cell can undermine an entire string of cells by 25-50% ....possibly more.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭
    I should have added, that if one or 2 cells start to show a lot of  weakness early in the test, start the 15 min portion early so as not to push a cell over the edge...ie, abort if the cell drops too low
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    What is "too low"?
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2016 #9
    10.5  / 6 = 1.75
    But I think you started below that.... so definitely not down to that.... you are trying to rebuild these not kill them at the start..  The test will give you an indication of where the drop off Voltage is at.
    BTW this test method is for my 'wet' NiCd batteries that had sat for > 10 years with no maintenance.
    hoping for the best yet not expecting a miracle, be safe and watch for hot batteries!

     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    One cell read 1.7, another 1.8. The rest showed 1.9 or 2.0, I should have replaced the 1.7 with the 2.0 that remains unused. Good chance I'll do that if the 1.7 shows permanent damage.

    I did recover a 24 volt bank with no weak cells. I expect pretty fair performance from that bank. The second bank is really cobbled together. Why not try? I lost a day and learned a bit.

    With all of the bad cells, I consider it possible that some of my readings may not be 100% indicative of the true health of the cell.

    Cell readings have varied of course. Some readings were taken in the bright sun at high noon. Yesterday was about 26 F when I started working on the cells. Driving down washboard roads also improved the voltage readings for a bit.

    Plus...it is highly likely that cell readings will be off when checking old batteries. That is why I said to check 2-3 times. One has to really push the probes into the lugs sometimes. Especially with low voltage cells it seems.

    One of the more interesting experiments that I have engaged in. Battery chemistry still seems a bit mysterious to me.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,489 admin
    Take a look at posts by "adas":

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/2833/batteries-getting-a-bit-weak

    He has recovered/re-connected cells in a bunch of well used fork lift batteries.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2016 #12
    BB. said:
    Take a look at posts by "adas":

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/2833/batteries-getting-a-bit-weak

    He has recovered/re-connected cells in a bunch of well used fork lift batteries.

    -Bill
    Pretty remarkable recoveries to be sure. Sitting in a corner since 1993 and showing 5 volts? I would not have believed that.

    I wish he wrote better and followed up.

    He got the first batch for free. Then... "But I just picked up another 36v 875a/h forklift near new battery from a salvage yard for $100.00 just in case."   How? Are batteries worthless in Hawaii?

    "His payoff time is 3 years after tax credits. He has a Very very nicely done system. (he's German) " That's my problem? Only 25% German.

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • H2SO4_guyH2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    That's Awesome.  Used batteries can be used in some capacity if you can make them work.  I am on over 3 years old batteries and I even heat with them sometimes. 

    Thanks for letting us know your progress and experiences.  It may help more to get a little bit more life out of batteries before they get recycled. 
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    The cobbled bank shows 24.8 volts in the chilly 45 F morning after being disconnected for two days. The specific gravity came up a lot with charging...of course. Many of the cells show a SG of 1.275....which is pretty ideal. Others did not rebound so well...I plan on experimenting with some battery rejuvenation chemicals....why not? The worst cell now shows 1.9 volts....bad but it may not take down the bank unduly.

    I expect pretty decent service from the other 24 volt bank. It contains no questionable cells, I didn't have to remove any cells at all.

    These batteries are eight years old but are of forklift battery design. They also may have been sitting for a long time. They were extremely expensive so I expect some superior materials were possibly used.

    I am slowly moving towards installations of small 12 and 24 volt cabin systems. This is great experience. I'll have at least three solar banks running, very possibly four. Always working on a dozen projects so findings do take time.

    Recycling old batteries is pretty joyous if the return on investment makes sense. Batterie$ are the achille$ heel of off grid $olar.

    Someone spoke of a huge break though about now. We have been hearing that for quite some time........
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016 #15
    So the de-sulfator chemicals are successfully mixed, measured, and added. Each cell weighs 68 pounds and has been treated as a typical 6 or 12 volt battery. It took $30 worth of chemicals to treat an ~820 pound battery bank. I probably spent a couple hours doing things like studying the literature, heating the water, mixing the chemicals, and shaking the batteries (to mix the solution).

    This is the principle: Battery plates eventually form a sulfate coating. This coating prevents battery acid from contacting the lead plates. This destroys battery performance.

    I do believe that this will work to some measurable extent. However, it does not work on cells that have been frozen. I have no idea why that is.

    Should have some results to post within a few days. The battery is supposed to charge for 12 hours after the chemical addition. Over a day will be required to meet that parameter.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    Interesting finding: the healthier the cell, the more it bubbles while being charged. The very healthy cells are very actively bubbling. The worst cells show no activity at all at this time. Small to moderate charging has taken place for almost one hour. The current temperature is 48 F. It got down to 26 F last night. 26 F is the likely ~cell temperature when this procedure was started.

    I have left the caps off in order to better monitor the bubbling activity. It would be very interesting if the worst cells started bubbling after a certain voltage or specific gravity was achieved.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,489 admin
    Sulfates "insulate" the plates--So cells that are not bubbling would be expected to have low current through them (i.e., if you have two cells/batteries in parallel, the "low resistance" cells will have higher current flow and more bubbling).

    If you have cells in series that some bubble and others do not--That would suggest the non-bubbling cells have low resistance, i.e., an internal short. While sulfating (and oxidation) can cause mechanical damage--It would be somehow conductive whiskers (such as sediment at the bottom of the cell) from lead (or other?) and/or failed plate separators that allow short circuit current flow through the "dead" cells.

    If you want to take a few "bad cells" apart and see if you can match damage in this (very old) battery repair manual:

    http://www.powerstream.com/1922/battery_1922_WITTE/batteryfiles/chapter15.htm

    Might learn some interesting stuff--Want to use "cherry wood" separators? (this manual is from 1922 and in no way represents today's safety and environmentally proper disposal methods):

    http://www.powerstream.com/1922/battery_1922_WITTE/battery_WITTE.htm

    -Bill


    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    Wow....thanks for that. Much different world in those times.

    I thought I was getting "with it" by being able to replace bad cells or repair many bad cells. They used to take battery repair to an entirely different level. They clearly had too much technology when these manuals were written. I still want to be an old west sheriff in the latter 1800's.....and 22 years of age. The law used to be very practical. Nobody got harmed...nobody usually cared.

    The bad cells are starting to bubble though the very worse are still dormant. These cells lived on a diesel locomotive engine. Surely a bumpy environment, probably hot at times, probably a very high charge rate. These batteries get retired when they are unable to start the locomotive engine. So they were surely severely discharged prior to retirement.

    I was a biology lab assistant in high school. For those who are following with interest, rest assured that my findings will carry a certain degree of scientific validity.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,489 admin
    Because you can measure per cell voltage, those cells not bubbling, what is the charging voltage?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    The very worst cells now show 2.0 volts at 60 F. The best cells show 2.4 or 2.5 volts under a light charge from two 180 watt panels. Hope that answers your question.

    I always seem to find a correlation between voltage and S.G. to approach 100%. I would imagine that a recently charged and dying battery could show a good "surface charge" and good voltage while exhibiting inferior S.G.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016 #21
    I will know more tomorrow after the batteries have received 12 hours of charging. I am currently pessimistic about the low voltage/SG cells. I could try melting more lead/tin into the cobbled connections but that does not appear to be the problem...there are good cells that must receive their current through cobbled connections.

    It would appear that I have ~eight healthy cells on the cobbled 24 volt bank. Perhaps it is time to consider a 12 volt system to run a single fridge or freezer. Surely a 12 volt system with all good cells would outperform a 24 volt system with four significantly weakened cells. The weakened cells might pull their weight for several months but the writing on the wall seems clear.

    How would panels putting out 40 volts do on a 12 volt system. I would think...just fine. Recently bought three Xantrex C35 12/24 volt charge controllers. So I'm good there. I don't think my Cotek 24 volt inverters will also work with 12 volt.

    Electronics prefer pure sine wave. I don't think ordinary construction tool motors have a great preference. For a fridge or freezer, I would surely go pure sine wave. Whats a good buy in a pure sine wave 12 volt inverter that will handle an ~500/600 watt surge. The AC wire run will be ~100 feet in this barn...so I should probably factor in another 100 watts or so.

    I may make a new thread regarding pure sine wave 12 volt inverters in the 500 watt range. I'll do a search first.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    Because you can measure per cell voltage, those cells not bubbling, what is the charging voltage?

    -Bill
    Perhaps I misunderstood? The current charging voltage at 8:30am MST is 27.9 volts with outside temperature of 40 F.

    Sometime this afternoon, I would expect a definitive answer to the "size" of the impact of the de-sulfidization experiment.

    It does seem reasonable to allow the chemicals an ~day to do their intended work. Especially in a cool environment.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,489 admin
    Most newer style of batteries have the cell to cell connections under the sealed top of the battery... Since your batteries have exposed bus bars, I was curious what the cell voltage during charging was for the bad cells.

    In theory, either they are near zero volts (shorted p=i*V=x amps * zero volts = zero watts) or higher voltage, but bubbling a lot... For cells that are not bubbling (and low sg), and not getting hot--I am trying to figure out where the energy (power=voltage*current) for the bad cell is going.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016 #24
    A bad coating of sulfate is my best guess at this point in time. I will likely add another dosage of the chemicals next week if the progress is not sufficient by then.



    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016 #25
    Disappointing findings on the newest SG readings. The numbers have almost all gone down. I must assume the batteries are colder than they were when I last checked the SG. Yet the voltage is certainly up. It appears that temperature may affect SG significantly more than it affects battery voltage.

    It is currently 60 F. The batteries are in the shade, on the ground, and quite large. Thus taking a long time to warm up from the 26 F early morning temperature.

    Is it possible that leaving the caps off has allowed some SG potential to escape in the short term? More hydrogen gas escapes with the caps off.

    If this product fails to rejuvenate any of my weak batteries, I will be within normal rights to seek a refund.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016 #26
    I have started broaching the subject of a refund for unsatisfactory results. The manufacturer says it can take a couple weeks to achieve results and suggest shaking the batteries to mix the solution around. Shaking a 300 pound battery bank has limitations.

    I told them that I would give it more time. Having spent almost $100 on the chemicals, I need results or a refund. They make their satisfaction guarantee a big deal.

    It is of interest that no other board users openly advocate this type of battery rejuvenation. I do know of people who openly state that battery de-sulfation efforts are a waste of time.

    The manufacturer just emailed that the money back guarantee is good for sixty days. That seems fair enough.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,489 admin
    Leaving battery caps off--Should not change anything other than if materials (dust, bugs, debris) falls in the cells and contaminates them.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    Leaving battery caps off--Should not change anything other than if materials (dust, bugs, debris) falls in the cells and contaminates them.

    -Bill
    That makes sense though the question seems legitimate enough. I truly expected some degree of improvement. Not anymore...
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
Sign In or Register to comment.