Trace 4024

tbear31818tbear31818 Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
Having problem w trace 4024 Shuts down with error inverter breaker tripped Sometimes just goes off no error message The inverter breaker isn't tripped It went ou Thursday morning Tuesday night it worked for 10 days went off again Can't figure what's going on any help would be appreciated

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,482 admin
    Check the DC input voltage at the Inverter... If you have poor connections (or weak battery bank), the DC input current will rise (power=voltage*current; if DC voltage falls by 20%, the DC current rises by 20%).

    Otherwise, it is possible that the inverter itself has failed. For example, there are pairs of FET (transistors) that, if both transistors were on at the same time (i.e., control circuit failure or transistor failure), it makes a dead short and can trip the input breaker/fuses.

    Here is one thread about some debugging...

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/7295/trace-sw4024-issue

    But your inverter is something like 15+ years old... Parts may be difficult to find and it may be time to think about replacing it.

    -Bill

    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2016 #3

    tbear..,

    Which  breaker is tripping  --  a breaker on the AC output,  or more likely,  the inverter main DC breaker.

    When the inverter has the Error light,  illuminated,  you can look in the Menu item,  called  '  Error Causes  '.  Of course,  if the DC breaker as tripped,  this will not work so well.

    Are you noticing any issues with the battery on this system?

    What is the current rating of the DC breaker that supplies the inverter DC from the battery?

    As Bill mentioned,  check ALL connections are tight and that there is no sign that the terminals or cables have overheated.

    Is there any chance of a nearby lightning strike?

    Do you have the Manual for this inverter?  It can be found on-line,  but it is almost 3 MB,  and about 150 pages,  not too phone-friendly ...

    Please tell us as much about the details of the system as possible.    Thanks,   Vic


    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • tbear31818tbear31818 Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    No breaker is tripping it says it is 250 amp dc breaker no lightening strikes have the manual frustrated it goes on for hours or days then error messages won't go on then when shut down doc ond turn on sounds like shorting in inverter then eventually is will go on again
  • tbear31818tbear31818 Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Inverter will sometimes shut itself of no error message not consistent
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭✭
    No breaker is tripping it says it is 250 amp dc breaker no lightening strikes have the manual frustrated it goes on for hours or days then error messages won't go on then when shut down doc ond turn on sounds like shorting in inverter then eventually is will go on again


    tbear..,

    OK,  sorry had a bit of trouble decoding just what you were saying.

    That 250 ADC breaker is what this inverter should have.

    Try removing ALL loads on the AC out side of the 4024.   Does this change any of the issues?
    These units have a history of the Relays having welded contacts.  This could,  possibly cause unpredictable behavior.   On the later model of this series (the SW +),  the relays are in the lower left side of the inverter.  Do not know the area where the relays are in the Trace SWs,  but,  some say that give a bit of a smack with your fist on the side,  and possibly the front to the inverter's case ...   could not really hurt.

    Normally one would say to check all connections for tightness,  but the sounds of a short  (assume that this is a loud hum,  or buzzzzzzz) would imply a short of some kind,  and that perhaps one of the current sense circuitry does not work ...

    A short on the AC output side,  would normally cause the inverter to Fault - OFF in a very short time.  Depending upon the nature of any AC short,  the behavior and sounds from the 4024 would be different,  if it is operating properly.

    A Trace 4024 inverter is a Senior Citizen in the electronics world.   There are still a number of Trace 4048s operating in our vicinity,  still going relatively strongly.  In this area,  there are a number of them that are about 20 years of age.  ALL of them are really on borrowed time,  and for the most part,  not really worth repairing when problems develop,  due to unavailability of parts,  and the cost of round-trip shipping.

    Have nothing meaningful to offer.   Sometimes one can find a new,  or lightly used Spare that someone kept as a backup,  and then they have replaced with new model inverters,  and these units can be found,  sometimes at Installers or on that Auction site.

    Good Luck!!   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭
    how old is it?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • tbear31818tbear31818 Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    About 18 years
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭
    That can be considered a  good long life for electronics,  repair may be doubtful....  consider a new inverter?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • tbear31818tbear31818 Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Vic said:
    No breaker is tripping it says it is 250 amp dc breaker no lightening strikes have the manual frustrated it goes on for hours or days then error messages won't go on then when shut down doc ond turn on sounds like shorting in inverter then eventually is will go on again


    tbear..,

    OK,  sorry had a bit of trouble decoding just what you were saying.

    That 250 ADC breaker is what this inverter should have.

    Try removing ALL loads on the AC out side of the 4024.   Does this change any of the issues?
    These units have a history of the Relays having welded contacts.  This could,  possibly cause unpredictable behavior.   On the later model of this series (the SW +),  the relays are in the lower left side of the inverter.  Do not know the area where the relays are in the Trace SWs,  but,  some say that give a bit of a smack with your fist on the side,  and possibly the front to the inverter's case ...   could not really hurt.

    Normally one would say to check all connections for tightness,  but the sounds of a short  (assume that this is a loud hum,  or buzzzzzzz) would imply a short of some kind,  and that perhaps one of the current sense circuitry does not work ...

    A short on the AC output side,  would normally cause the inverter to Fault - OFF in a very short time.  Depending upon the nature of any AC short,  the behavior and sounds from the 4024 would be different,  if it is operating properly.

    A Trace 4024 inverter is a Senior Citizen in the electronics world.   There are still a number of Trace 4048s operating in our vicinity,  still going relatively strongly.  In this area,  there are a number of them that are about 20 years of age.  ALL of them are really on borrowed time,  and for the most part,  not really worth repairing when problems develop,  due to unavailability of parts,  and the cost of round-trip shipping.

    Have nothing meaningful to offer.   Sometimes one can find a new,  or lightly used Spare that someone kept as a backup,  and then they have replaced with new model inverters,  and these units can be found,  sometimes at Installers or on that Auction site.

    Good Luck!!   Vic


  • tbear31818tbear31818 Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Thanks to all for your help
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