Tesla PowerWall Install

frank.thomson

Just bumped into the install guide for Powerwall..

https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/Powerwall Installation and User's Manual-online.pdf

First impressions, looks a total PITA to mount and configure.

Anyone got their first hands on to it or personal experience?

-Frank

jimskau

Thanks mate.  How do you charge these buggers and which inveteres will run on them? 350-450VDC?

mike95490

They don't exist yet, total vaporware

South Africa

A South African company, Rubicon's focus will be to sell solutions around the Tesla Powerwall as the battery requires the SolarEdge Storedge inverter to operate

Dave Angelini

Nice!  I usually only buy diamonds from South Africa, now I can get electronics there?

Xizang

mike95490 said:

They don't exist yet, total vaporware

So Tesla is committing fraud?   They're duping their investors by building the big Nevada plant and setting up marketing?   Wow, this could be the scandal of the century!    Have you informed the SEC?   Will people be going to jail?

westbranch

emphasis on one word is :   YET  .

to this point nothing exists to sell,  but it's in the Mail!   Believe it when I see it!

mike95490

Xizang said:

mike95490 said:

They don't exist yet, total vaporware

So Tesla is committing fraud?   They're duping their investors by building the big Nevada plant and setting up marketing?   Wow, this could be the scandal of the century!    Have you informed the SEC?   Will people be going to jail?

It's a possible product announcement,  And read that owners manual.  You can discharge the battery once a week. 

Mountain Don

Green Mountain Power, Vermont, will be the first US utility to offer Powerwall according to  this (Jan 2016 start...) and this .    IIRC there are / will be two different Powerwalls; one for everyday use one for just backup power.   They have also started use in Australia. 

zoneblue

Looks pretty real to me.. Heres the fixed link to the aus article: http://mashable.com/2016/01/28/first-tesla-powerwall/#gUjHcKNisgqx

zoneblue

And for whats it worth companys here have been offering similar solutions for over 2 years. They are network connected and allow the grid operator to draw power out of the pack to help with their peak demand. You get some grid outage backup in return. Systems normally owned by teh grid operator.

Blackcherry04

I guess there will always be Nay-sayers and Parrots on the Internet. From the day of their announcement it was clear that Tesla was committed to this product. It may fail if it's not cost effective and not a viable concept. As rates rise and time shifting becomes something people understand the concept will become more mainstream. Right now there probably only a few places it makes sense.

Off Grid seems like a dream and its not the right product, but it may lead to some. 

South Africa

I think Tesla with the Powerwall has created more solar awareness than any other supplier has been able to, to date.

Everyone is talking about it. Elon Musk did a brilliant thing for the man on the street who does not want to have lead acid batteries.

JoshK

For what it's worth I did get an email from Tesla last week with a survey inside to help them contact an installer for me.  It's a slow process, but the alternative is developing in secret, then hoping what comes out is perfect.  As some might recall, they increased the capacity of the PowerWall based on feedback after the announcement.  It's just a company that's more transparent than others.  It's a bit funny that people with no patience say the products aren't coming. 

Dave Angelini

I do not think Tesla will work for what I do and there already is gear for Offgrid that I can buy now.

Standard Lead Acid Batteries in Sealed Gel or AGM. For reliable, versatile, maintenance-free power.

 

Nano-Carbon AGM Lead Acid Batteries. Carbon additive increases overall cycle life and battery efficiency.

 

Saltwater Batteries. Completely non-toxic, extremely high cycle life. The only Cradle to Cradle Certified(TM) energy storage product on the market.

 

*NEW* Nickel Iron Batteries. Rugged and longest lasting - up to 30 years cycle life.

 

*NEW* Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries. Advanced energy storage with deep discharge up to 95% every day for 25 years.

vtmaps

Dave Angelini said:

*NEW* Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries. Advanced energy storage with deep discharge up to 95% every day for 25 years.

I just checked out Elecyr's website.  According to them:

Until now, the best deep cycle storage has been lead-acid wet cells. But even the best of these wet cell batteries will last two years at most and even then only if they’re kept in balance and discharged no more than 50%

Their point being that their batteries will outlast the best FLA batteries.  They must be aiming pretty low... trying to do better than the 2 years that the best FLA batteries can achieve.

--vtMaps

Dave Angelini

No matter where they are aiming Michael, at least I can buy them from my dealer.  I did not say I would buy them as there are far cheaper /better sources that I have working knowledge of.  I still have yet to have a customer who has to have batteries on a wall offgrid. They all have plenty of room as space is usually the whole point of being offgrid, in my opinion.

Xizang

Dave Angelini said:

  I still have yet to have a customer who has to have batteries on a wall offgrid. They all have plenty of room as space is usually the whole point of being offgrid, in my opinion.

I know plenty of boaters who spend a lot of time off-grid.  And anyone who's spent any time out on a private boat knows that there's really not much of what can be called 'storage space'.  Every little nook and cranny is filled with the essentials of life on a boat.

Mountain Don

But I think the main focus here, with Powerwall and other forms of storage in off grid, on land.  BTW Dave knows all about boats and batteries. He lived on a cruising sailboat for many years

Dave Angelini

Thanks Don!  I would think the last thing a cruising sailor would want is equipment that has not stood the test of time. I may be wrong on that. I do know I would not want 400 vdc on my boat.

simmtron

vtmaps said:

Dave Angelini said:

*NEW* Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries. Advanced energy storage with deep discharge up to 95% every day for 25 years.

I just checked out Elecyr's website.  According to them:

Until now, the best deep cycle storage has been lead-acid wet cells. But even the best of these wet cell batteries will last two years at most and even then only if they’re kept in balance and discharged no more than 50%

Their point being that their batteries will outlast the best FLA batteries.  They must be aiming pretty low... trying to do better than the 2 years that the best FLA batteries can achieve.

--vtMaps

I was just working out the cost per kwh for my T105 wet cell batteries, which Ihave had 3 years now and still going strong. My charge controller says that it has sent the batteries 256,000 ah which I think works out to over 3000 kwh. That works out to  7.5 cents per kwh for the batteries, not 55 cents per kwh as Elecyr says ( and they are still very strong).  Did I work that out right? The batteries cost $400.00 here in Mexico.

vtmaps

simmtron said:

i was just working out the cost per kwh for my T105 wet cell batteries, which Ihave had 3 years now and still going strong. My charge controller says that it has sent the batteries 256,000 ah which I think works out to over 3000 kwh. That works out to  7.5 cents per kwh for the batteries, not 55 cents per kwh as Elecyr says ( and they are still very strong).  Did I work that out right?

Maybe.  Where did you get the 256000 ah from?  If that was the output of your controller, some of those ah may have gone to loads.

--vtMaps

zoneblue

Want you want is the WBJr negative AH. Its only the AH delivered from the battery that you want to count. And id be suprised if you got that number under 40c/kWh.

simmtron

It's AH at 12 volts from the CC readout of the morningstar, I know there is losses to take into account as it is what is going to the battery not what is coming out.

vtmaps

simmtron said:

It's AH at 12 volts from the CC readout of the morningstar, I know there is losses to take into account as it is what is going to the battery not what is coming out.

The readout from the Morningstar is NOT what is going into the battery... unless there is no inverter or other DC loads attached to the system.

--vtMaps

Mountain Don

Dave Angelini said:

Thanks Don!  I would think the last thing a cruising sailor would want is equipment that has not stood the test of time. I may be wrong on that. I do know I would not want 400 vdc on my boat.

Yes. A true cruising sailor is more off grid than any of us landlubbers.  

simmtron

vtmaps said:

simmtron said:

It's AH at 12 volts from the CC readout of the morningstar, I know there is losses to take into account as it is what is going to the battery not what is coming out.

The readout from the Morningstar is NOT what is going into the battery... unless there is no inverter or other DC loads attached to the system.

--vtMaps

Yes I know that a lot of the panel current is going straight to loads, but I'm talking about total cost of the batteries in the system for the kwh I am using in total.      No?
And the other thing that bothered me on their site was saying that you are lucky to get 2 years from FLA batteries. I live in a community with no electricity and most people get  5-7 years from their batteries. Unless of course they don't properly match the panels to the battery capacity.  I will now try not to hijack the Tesla post..

zoneblue

Mate, batterys are expensive, dont kid your self. Example:

10000Wh bank, rated for 1000 25% cycles.
lifetime kwh delivered = 0.25*10000Wh*1500 = 3750kWh
Cost was $2000, therefore
battery cost is $2000/3750kWh = 53c/kWh

All the other gear is added ON TOP of that.

Xizang

That's it!   All this solar stuff is way too expensive.   The solution?   Back to life on the grid, or to find some way to get batteries for free.   Now, theft is out (I'm opposed to living a prison life).  So maybe we can get Congress to come up with a plan...

BB.

Xizang said:

...Now, theft is out (I'm opposed to living a prison life).  So maybe we can get Congress to come up with a plan...

But you said "theft is out"... That is always congress' go to plan.

-Bill

Xizang

BB. said:

Xizang said:

...Now, theft is out (I'm opposed to living a prison life).  So maybe we can get Congress to come up with a plan...

But you said "theft is out"... That is always congress' go to plan.

-Bill

That's because government is always exempt from their own laws.  Heck, they're exempt from their own Constitution, you know they don't care about the law.   So yeah - Congress steals from the producers and gives to the freeloaders.

So if you need batteries, lobby your congressman and get a bill passed.  Government can tax everyone else so they can give you the stuff you want.   That's how it works!