DeHumidifier water..... Suitable for battery use?

Hamfast
Hamfast Solar Expert Posts: 44

   Just looking for input here. Just got done refilling the batteries and the thought jumped into my lil ol' head........:)

  

Off Grid System; 2175W array; 370ah @ 48v (8 L16 Scrubbers in series); XW MPPT60-150 CC; OutBack VFX3648, FlexNet and Mate

Comments

  • Aguarancher
    Aguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    With the price of distilled water being what it is, why take the risk of getting any funky contaminates in your batteries?
  • Hamfast
    Hamfast Solar Expert Posts: 44
    Not a matter of price, just convenience. As an aside, bottled distilled water may not always be available at Wally World...:)

    Off Grid System; 2175W array; 370ah @ 48v (8 L16 Scrubbers in series); XW MPPT60-150 CC; OutBack VFX3648, FlexNet and Mate

  • 706jim
    706jim Solar Expert Posts: 514 ✭✭✭✭
    I used water right out of Lake Superior with good results.
    Island cottage solar system with 2500 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1.3kw facing southwest 170watt ancient Arco's facing south. All panels in parallel for a 24 volt system. Trace DR1524 MSW inverter, Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller 8 Trojan L16's. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge. My 30th year.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    I would worry about contamination too... You can try measuring TDS with one of these (TDS Meter):

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tds+meter
     
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2015 #6
    And just the regular dust etc in the air being blown at and over the droplets of water forming on the cold aluminum tubes would worry me. It wouldn't kill the batteries short term, but could well degrade them and shorten their lives.
    No, I wouldn't do it, but to each his own I guess.
  • Hamfast
    Hamfast Solar Expert Posts: 44
    One TDS meter on the way....:)

    Off Grid System; 2175W array; 370ah @ 48v (8 L16 Scrubbers in series); XW MPPT60-150 CC; OutBack VFX3648, FlexNet and Mate

  • Hamfast
    Hamfast Solar Expert Posts: 44
    And just the regular dust etc in the air being blown at and over the droplets of water forming on the cold aluminum tubes would worry me. It wouldn't kill the batteries short term, but could well degrade them and shorten their lives.
    No, I wouldn't do it, but to each his own I guess.


       My thoughts exactly Wayne, hence the question.....Thanks...:)

    Off Grid System; 2175W array; 370ah @ 48v (8 L16 Scrubbers in series); XW MPPT60-150 CC; OutBack VFX3648, FlexNet and Mate

  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    If you use a very fine pore filter you might be OK. As long as the water did not somehow pick up a high ion content from the condensing tubes.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,731 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Use rainwater if you have any....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Use a filter too for rain water. I would wait until you get a TDS meter to ensure that your water is "pure" (ionic contamination). A few years ago poster "Dabbler" got these readings:
    Company, product, advertised purification method, ppm, cost:

    Zephyrhills "Drinking Water"
    Reverse Osmosis
    0 ppm
    $1.23/gal

    Zephyrhills "Distilled Water"
    Steam distillation, carbon filtration, microfiltration, ozonation
    0 ppm
    $1.23/gal

    Publix "Purified Water"
    Reverse osmosis, ozonation
    1 ppm
    $.85/gal

    Nursery "Purified Water"
    Steam distilled, filtered and ozonated. Selected minerals added for taste
    ( potassium bicarbonate, calcium chloride, magnesium chloride,
    sodium fluoride)
    25 ppm
    $1.49/gal

    Publix "Drinking Water"
    Carbon filtered, ozonated, from a fluoridated municipal source
    95 ppm
    $.85/gal

    Publix "Spring Water"
    Filtered, ozonated
    216 ppm
    $.85/gal
    And from some old searches on the Web, I found:
    Cruzin' around the Innertubes--using the electrical resistivity method, the approximate maximum TDS for battery water should be around 20 ppm (one paper that I did not want to pay $31 to read) and from this deionizer filter company (download product literature) they set their tester to 50 ppm as the "filter" exhausted point.

    TDS for tap water seems to run from 50 ppm (very good, soft) to 250ppm (very poor or hard).

    The lower the ppm, the longer your batteries will last. The more you equalize (consume more water)--I would guess, the lower you would want your TDS to be (cumulative effect of electrolysis gassing away water, and leaving solids behind).

    As always, your mileage will vary.

    -Bill
    And, as always, it does not hurt to ask the experts (Trojan in this case), their manual:

    http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TrojanBattery_UsersGuide.pdf (page 15, table 3):
    Table 3
    Recommended Maximum Allowable Impurities in Water for Battery Use
    Impurity / Parts Per Million / Effects of Impurity
    ==================================================================
    Organic and Volatile Matter 50.0 Corrosion of positive plate
    Ammonia 8.0 Slight self-discharge of both plates
    Antimony 5.0 Increased self-discharge, reduces life, lower on-charge voltage
    Arsenic 0.5 Self-discharge, can form poisonous gas at negative plate
    Calcium 40.0 Increase of positive plate shedding
    Chloride 5.0 Loss of capacity in both plates, greater loss on the positive plate
    Copper 5.0 Increased self-discharge, lower on-charge voltage
    Iron 3.0 Increased self-discharge at both plates, lower on-charge voltage
    Magnesium 40.0 Reduced life
    Nickel None Allowed Intense lowering of on-charge voltage
    Nitrates 10.0 Increased sulfation on the negative plate
    Nitrites 5.0 Corrosion of both plates, loss of capacity, reduced life
    Platinum None Allowed Increased self-discharge, lower on-charge voltage
    Selenium 2.0 Positive plate shedding
    Zinc 4.0 Slight self-discharge of negative plate

    Note that Arsenic is very poisonous (to both humans and batteries--0.5 PPM in above chart). And Arsenic can be present in many wells:

    http://water.usgs.gov/nawqa/trace/arsenic/

    From this link, 0.5 PPM is = 500 ugram per liter:

    http://www.endmemo.com/sconvert/ug_lppm.php

    EPA used to have 50 ugm/l as the safe limit, now dropped to 10 ugm/l.

    In Minnesota (as an example) a few wells have ~300 ugm/l Arsenic... Other countries (overseas) have known Arsenic issues too.

    Looks like not a common issue in the US... In other regions of the world, can be a problem--Especially in areas that have mining operations nearby.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Hamfast
    Hamfast Solar Expert Posts: 44
     Thanks for the info Bill.  :)  Alas, my TDS meter is shipping via Royal Mail, so I won't see it till early Dec.....:)

    Off Grid System; 2175W array; 370ah @ 48v (8 L16 Scrubbers in series); XW MPPT60-150 CC; OutBack VFX3648, FlexNet and Mate

  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,731 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Just for reference, most rainwater and distilled water has a PH near 5 or 5.5. The rain tends to come up a little in a tank.
     I would be careful of adding anything that is too alkaline.
    And while Bill does trust the experts, I have alot more skepticism toward them as they mostly want you to buy batteries after the warranty. Some do not even care about the warranty.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
         For 23 years, I have owned a business with the name Aquatics in it. I would not do what you are thinking about. Minerals/TDS/Total Dissolved Solids are just one indicator of water quality. There may also be chemical impurities and organic impurities that the TDS meter will not recognize. In addition, the meter needs regular calibration and proper maintenance. They also have a life span of a couple years if you are very lucky. I've been through a bunch of them. The readings are literally all over the place.
         Distilled water is the best for batteries. Cost .88/gallon at Walmart. I think the storage period is years though the plastic container will likely leach some estrogens into the water...over time. A gallon lasts me a couple months. This expense isn't even on the radar.
         Damaged batteries? I would have to sell a rental unit to buy new batteries. Then be even poorer. Don't gamble with your batteries.

         This is likely not a good idea at all.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Hamfast
    Hamfast Solar Expert Posts: 44
    Thanks for the comment Softdown.....  Input is what I'm after...:)

    Off Grid System; 2175W array; 370ah @ 48v (8 L16 Scrubbers in series); XW MPPT60-150 CC; OutBack VFX3648, FlexNet and Mate

  • JoshK
    JoshK Solar Expert Posts: 232 ✭✭
    edited November 2015 #16
    I don't think it's worth the risk to your batteries.