Recirculating electrolyte?

I was reading through some Popular Science mags from the 1960's and came across a very brief article about a man in California who had converted a Fiat to electric power. He claimed to be getting "exceptional" distance from his batteries because he'd installed pumps to recirculate the electrolyte from the bottom to the top of each battery. Supposedly this gave them longer amp/hr life and allowed them to recharge faster. There was nothing along the lines of details!
Has anyone else heard of doing this? It would be pretty much the same as a 'continuous EQ cycle' in some respects, but I can't imagine what system of tubing & pump could stand up to the acid or how it would be fitted leak-proof to existing batteries.
It is probably more work than it's worth, else it would be more popular?
Just wondering.

Comments

  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Recirculating electrolyte?

    Why couldn't you put them on a vibrating or tilting platform to stir them up? Does seem like a solution in search of a problem though.

    Tony

    PS I know that excessive vibration is not liked by batteries.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Recirculating electrolyte?

    I'd think the normal sloshing in the cells, as you drive, would be adequate. I've heard no reports from EV owners that "stagnant" electrolyte is a problem. If so, a little air pump, like for an aquarium, would work to stir the 'lite, and not have to figure how to pump acid and not spill it.

    There are OTHER batteries with weird chemistrys, that use pumped chemicals.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

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    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Recirculating electrolyte?

    it seems to me an agm would solve that problem no sweat if it really was a problem and i don't believe it to be a problem. the power drain from the pumps are a problem and would cut the distance one could travel and definitely would not add to the distance one could travel as was claimed.
    it's amazing some of the hogwash that was in that and many other mags. it seems the people at the magazine weren't smart enough on the subject matters to differentiate between a real breakthrough or hype, but even if they were smart enough it didn't matter because hype can sell a magazine.:roll:
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Recirculating electrolyte?

    I have since found quite a bit of info on it searching the 'Net. And we all know how reliable Internet information is!:D
    Even some patents. Funny, though; no one is producing these amazing break-through batteries yet! Must be 'Big Oil' buying everything up and keeping it all hush-hush! :D

    I expect it's a matter of "technically some benefit, but not enough to justify the disadvantages".

    The "magic-eye" Delco batteries used to tell you to "rock them gently" after charging so the built-in hydrometer would give an accurate reading.

    Meanwhile, back to the drawing board!
  • BrockBrock Solar Expert Posts: 633 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Recirculating electrolyte?

    I am with Niel, I would think just circulating the acid in its own normal cells size would use more power than it could free up in the acid.

    Having said that, I had read somewhere a while ago about using a standard sized battery with a glass storage tank that held the same amount of acid as the main battery. The thought was it was cheaper to add the storage space and acid and circulate the acid to increase the batteries capacity.

    I am not a battery expert but doesn't it depend on the plates as well as the acid to make the power? Meaning if you double the volume of acid you wouldn't double the batteries capacity since the plates have the same physical space. I am sure it wouldn't increase the cca since the plates are the same, but would it increase the overall capacity?
    3kw solar PV, 8 L16's, xw 5548, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Leaf EV, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Recirculating electrolyte?
    Brock wrote: »
    I am with Niel, I would think just circulating the acid in its own normal cells size would use more power than it could free up in the acid.

    Having said that, I had read somewhere a while ago about using a standard sized battery with a glass storage tank that held the same amount of acid as the main battery. The thought was it was cheaper to add the storage space and acid and circulate the acid to increase the batteries capacity.

    I am not a battery expert but doesn't it depend on the plates as well as the acid to make the power? Meaning if you double the volume of acid you wouldn't double the batteries capacity since the plates have the same physical space. I am sure it wouldn't increase the cca since the plates are the same, but would it increase the overall capacity?

    if that works, just make more space between separators, and store your extra acid IN the battery.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Recirculating electrolyte?

    I think the basic principle is to reduce sulphation by keeping fluid 'washing' over the plates. How effective this would be I couldn't say. Wish I'd studied batteries more in the old days!
  • banjorenebanjorene Solar Expert Posts: 36
    Re: Recirculating electrolyte?

    Well I'll tell ya in the old days when money was real hard to come by If I had a bad battery or I should say one that would hold a charge for only a day or so I would drain the battery rinse it out real good....refill with new acid and 9 out of 10 times it would take a charge and last me another 6 months before going south for good.
    Rene
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