need reviews of this heater

ws9876ws9876 Solar Expert Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
Anyone know this wall mount 400 watt heater from Warmzone..
I need info on it ,they want 120 for it... any personal reviews appreciated


Eco-heater wall-mount heater
[ECO-400] Printer Friendly eco-heater-sq.jpg Efficient, reliable and stylish, the environmentally friendly ECO-heater features economical, energy-efficient operation and custom design capability. The easy-to-install wall-mount heater is one of the most economical heaters on the market today.
The facade of the electric ECO-heater can be painted with any quality water-based paint, allowing you to customize the heater panel into an aesthetically pleasing design that complements the surrounding décor or blends into the existing wall.
Product Specifications
Unit dimensions: 23¼ x 23¼ x 3/8-inches
Approximate weight:15 pounds

Shipping Information: Each retail package contains one (1) 400 watt electric panel heater, mounting kit, installation instructions and styrofoam packaging that also serves as a mounting template.
Packaged dimensions are 25¼ x 25¼ x 2-inches.
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Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,038 admin
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    More or less depends what you expect from this heater... Basically, electric heat is the most "costly" way of heating your home... If you have natural gas or propane available, it will cost less to heat your home.

    However, small electric spot heaters can make sense--I use a couple in my kids study/bedrooms to take the chill off of the room without heating the whole home. I have enough "extra power" from my Grid Tied system (along with Time of Use net metering where I generate power at $0.30 per kWhr in the afternoons but use it at $0.09 per kWhr in the morning to run a heater for a 1/2 hour or so).

    In another case, we sometimes have mildew problems--and I chose to go with a dehumidifier--basically still get heat, plus water removal. However, I have not had to use it the last couple of years since I have insulated + new windows, plus fixed my drainage (water used to pool under my home).

    I have no opinion about the brand/model of heater.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    as for my opinion on this product, i say why spend $120 for 400w of heat(about 1250btus) when you can buy one that for about $20-$30 will be about 1500w (about 4700btus) and you can put it where you want it? infrared heaters are typically a bit more at about $50 and up for the same 1500w, but still afford the same portability i speak of if one goes with an electric heater and to me it's senseless to go with what you've shown here with enough info/hype to almost be a commercial for it is neither economical or efficient.
  • ws9876ws9876 Solar Expert Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    the point is that its a low watt convec`tion heater that is supposed to deliver near the heat
    of a 1000 watt. It is not a fire hazard ,NOT the case with any 1500 watt wall heater,
    and uses so little juice. but does move air around without any fan and is silent.
    If it works I'll post a review...
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,038 admin
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    Electric heaters are 100% efficient... So, the type does not matter (unless it is a heat pump type system). 400 watts is 400 watts--not 1,500 watts...

    Where you can save money with electric heat is in "spot heating"... Say you have a large, cold warehouse... Instead of trying to heat the air, you use an IR heater to focus the IR rays on the person working at the desk to help keep him/her warm. Or, what our female workers would do (in over air conditioned office buildings), is put a flat plate heater under their feet/desk to keep warm. Of course--this cost the company even more in A/C, and we had the occasional outlet smoked from to much computer and electric heater loads...

    In the end, it would probably be more energy efficient to build a small office and heat it, vs using an IR heater--but you get the point.

    If you are heating the air and the entire contents of the room... The end results is a 400 watt resistive heater will take ~3-4 times longer to heat the room+contents vs a 1,500 watt resistive heater.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BrockBrock Solar Expert Posts: 633 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    What they said.

    But in an electric heater is an electric heater. If you put 400w in a baseboard, radiant panel, small forced air or Halogen, guess what you get 400 watts of heat out. Any electric heater is 100% efficient since all it can do is make heat. Having said that as Niel pointed out sometimes certain heaters can be used less like a halogen heater will tend to warm up objects in front of them rather than the air space in the room and then they can sometimes be run less. And as Bill noted you can get by with only running heat in one room and not another which could also cut overall energy consumption.

    I do have to point out though that last month at our base electric rate it would be cheaper to run electric resistant heat than running propane heat, but that isn't common, typically electric is one of the more expensive ways to heat.
    3kw solar PV, 8 L16's, xw 5548, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Leaf EV, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    electric heaters deliver up to about 3.14 btus per watt per hour reguardless of the type. no electric heater will deliver more btu's unless something like a heat pump is utilized and then it may do a little bit better. resistant and radiant types fit the 3.14 btu's per watt per hour catagory. if they say that their heater can deliver 1000w worth of heat with 400w of input power this is most likely false advertising and fraud.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: need reviews of this heater
    niel wrote: »
    if they say that their heater can deliver 1000w worth of heat with 400w of input power this is most likely false advertising and fraud.
    ========================================

    I would take it a step farther and say it IS false advertising and fraud. It sickened me last Winter to see desperate neighbors targeted with fancy, impressive looking glossy junk mail, promising that if they would just spend $499.99 for the 1000 watt heater, or almost $700.00 for the 1500 watt heater, that all their heating problems would be solved and the cost of heating their homes would be reduced by 80%. People who just didn't know any better were mailing in their money, thinking any electric heater that expensive, must, like the beautiful pictures showed, be for real and their answer to being able to heat their homes and have money left over for groceries. Those who could least afford it, were in their desperation, being sucked in and taken for hundreds of $ they could not afford.
    Alas, they learned the hard way. :grr
  • ws9876ws9876 Solar Expert Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    I have tried it... it overheats on the back so if you want to be safe you have to add 2 inchs clearance to the back..
    and its worth about 60 $ max. dont buy one for 1 dollar more than that.
  • lamplightlamplight Solar Expert Posts: 368 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    i use an oil filled space heater in my home office, heats up, shuts off. (unfortunately, then turns on again ...)
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    so is it good or bad???
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    > it overheats on the back so if you want to be safe you
    > have to add 2 inchs clearance to the back

    Sounds like its good for cooking your wall.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
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  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,038 admin
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    And for a $129.95 priced heater--that "WS" believes is only worth $60 maximum... No, the heater is nothing special and potentially hazardous to your home.

    And in any case, because of the near fraudulent labeling "ECO Heater" and doubling the price--I would avoid rewarding the website for their actions.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    Well, thank you one and all…..you guys just saved us some money. I was about to head out to Home Depot to get this heater (they charge even more than $120.00) but a little voice inside kept telling me to get more information. The only information on the internet about this product seems to be the information the manufacturer put out. Almost every website I found repeats the same info, verbatim. My first thought was that if this was such a good product then why is there no competition?
    Like Oprah says in re things that sound too good to be true, “if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck….”
    Thanks again, in spite of the fact that it was 16 degrees here in Savannah this morning!
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    I installed three eco-heaters in our 2,000 sqft cape. So far I have been impressed with the results and have had no issues and they fulfilled my objectives. I have not experienced any reverse burn to the wall as the heating unit itself relies more on convection heat versus radiant heat. The unit is hot to the touch but certainly would not burn you. I have two children under the ages of three who initially were curious and like all kids have to touch everything. These heaters can't match the output of our gas radiators and certainly aren't intended to be a primary heat source but they knock the chill out of the room so I don't have to keep raising the thermostat on our expensive gas fed boiler. I installed one in our main living area and the other two in my kid's rooms. This allowed me to heat the rooms I wanted to be at a comfortable temperature versus raising the thermostat to heat the whole house including rooms we rarely occupied. I have since discontinued using my 1500 w radiant space heater as it is no longer needed. I purchased the units from cheap.electric.heaters dot com (remove the extra "." and so on) as we are not close to any urban sprawl. This website also had refurbished on sale though I purchased new units so I don't have any feedback on the refurb units. Ecoheater also offers an Infrared Heater but I have not tried this model either. Does anyone have any experience with their IR Heat?
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,038 admin
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    The ECO heater is not any different than what you had before--and in some ways appears to be less efficient because, I guess, these heaters do not have a thermostat?

    The reason you don't need your 1,500 watt heater any more is because you have installed 3x 400 watts = 1,200 watts of electric heat--Basically very similar amount of electric heat for $360 more of your hard earned money.

    Electric heaters are not energy efficient. Using them to heat one room and let the rest of the home run colder may save you energy overall--that is where your energy savings can comes from.

    Also, from your web site link:
    The Eco-Heater can raise the ambient temperature in the room and uses less than 73% less energy than other space heaters. Check out this video to see how it works! ...

    ...makes this virtually a scam... The reason it uses 73% less energy is because it is 73% smaller than the typical 1,500 watt heater.

    If you try to heat the same room to 68F and use the thermostat on your 1,500 watt heater, they will, over time, use the same amount of energy (or the 400 watt heater will not heat the room as well).

    Better insulation (ceiling, walls), weather stripping, double pane windows, heavy drapes, foam insulation cut to the size of the windows, etc. will all save you money in power costs over time.

    If your area does not get too cold, then using a Sanyo Mini-Split heat pump will also save you energy too.

    Lastly, also watch for scorch marks on your wall behind the unit:
    I have tried it... it overheats on the back so if you want to be safe you have to add 2 inchs clearance to the back..

    It may cause you problems with your wall.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    People buy these things and then refuse to admit they are not a good deal - either that or they are clickbank spammers.

    I have seen the same argument many times over the past couple of years for the same unit. The advertising on the site is very misleading - outright lying about efficiency.

    Russ
  • XRingerXRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    "If your area does not get too cold, then using a Sanyo Mini-Split heat pump will also save you energy too."


    I'm using a 24,000 BTU Sanyo Min-Split and it still works pretty good when
    it's down to about 10 degs F outside. But below that, I need back-up heat.
    When it's mild & sunny like today (33.5°F), it's cycling off and on,
    and using less than 500w while it's on. Likely putting out about 6,000 BTUh when on now..
    http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Xringer/NCL/heatcap.jpg
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    When it comes to these scams with outrageous claims of super efficient electric heaters, there just is no polite or easy way of saying it - - A fool and his money are soon parted. They have been warned, they have been told. When it comes to electric heat, a watt is a watt, is a watt! They're on their own.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,038 admin
    Re: need reviews of this heater
    XRinger wrote: »
    When it's mild & sunny like today (33.5°F), it's cycling off and on, and using less than 500w while it's on. Likely putting out about 6,000 BTUh when on now..
    • 6,000 BTU / 3.14 BTU per Watt ~ 1,910 watts (using 500 watts of electricity)
    Or almost 4x as efficient as pure electric heat with a Sanyo Min-Split or other good quality heat pump system (plus you have Air Conditioning in the summer too--if you need it).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SteveKSteveK Solar Expert Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    We use a few of these part time. A little less costly to buy and is screened in. Low profile wall mount. Still "micathermic". We like them but it's still electric and costly.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896808038
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater
    SteveK wrote: »
    We use a few of these part time. A little less costly to buy and is screened in. Low profile wall mount. Still "micathermic". We like them but it's still electric and costly.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896808038

    Electric resistance heating with a COP of 1 - as compared to the heat pump with a COP of at least 3 (probably closer to 4). Once the ambient temperature drops down into the 20s the heat pumps can get expensive to operate.
  • SteveKSteveK Solar Expert Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater
    russ wrote: »
    Electric resistance heating with a COP of 1 - as compared to the heat pump with a COP of at least 3 (probably closer to 4). Once the ambient temperature drops down into the 20s the heat pumps can get expensive to operate.

    I'm a believer in heat pump technology for sure. We fitted a Northroad (Nyle) Geyser heat pump retrofit kit to our water heater in the basement. Saved a lot of money for our full time family of four. The basement stays much warmer than the outdoors so it works well.

    We heat with a stove that is centrally located so it is very cheap to run and purchase but the drawback is behind closed doors. There is no circulation to those rooms. When the older kids come home from college to work and break we need spot heating. This is when we use the electric heaters. I bound the controls so they don't get too crazy with the temperature.

    So these little "micathermic" wall units I linked to above do work well and do not heat up the wall too much behind them.....but they are every bit as costly to run as any other electric element solution I agree. They are much cheaper than the OP's $160ea to purchase though. It's the low profile that we like about them and the safety too but mostly for convenience.

    I've yet to determine the feasability of mini splits in our home but it appears that there will always be a need for some other electric solution in these rooms at least in the coldest months. Do the mini splits have auxilliary electric elements like central units do?
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    @ Steve - Normally heat pumps have the resistance heating as a backup - usually called some exotic name like 'plasma' or such to try to confuse people.
  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater
    SteveK wrote: »
    I've yet to determine the feasability of mini splits in our home but it appears that there will always be a need for some other electric solution in these rooms at least in the coldest months. Do the mini splits have auxilliary electric elements like central units do?

    The mini splits do not have aux. electric heaters.
    Some of the newer units do work down to 5 F and still put out sufficient heat.
    Here is the capacity table for 24K BTU Fujitsu mini split, the COP is still 1.8 at 5F
  • SteveKSteveK Solar Expert Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    Thanks guys.

    I'll check these out further. Seems like every few years we loose a window AC unit due to sitting unused throughout the winter months. We have five of those. We are due for a replacement soon I'm sure. This could be a better option.

    Thanks again!
  • XRingerXRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater
    LucMan wrote: »
    The mini splits do not have aux. electric heaters.
    Some of the newer units do work down to 5 F and still put out sufficient heat.
    Here is the capacity table for 24K BTU Fujitsu mini split, the COP is still 1.8 at 5F

    I agree. At least my Sanyo doesn't have aux heat. My Aux OIL burner heat is on right now,
    due to all the snow coming down. (Since late last night).

    I'm thinking I might try about 400w of aux heat, to melt the snow that's sucked
    into the coils during normal snow fall. Maybe place a gutter-ice-melt wire
    in loops on the surface of the coil to melt off snow, to keep it from blocking air flow.

    Otherwise, the system spends half it's time in Defrost mode. (When it does not provide any heat at all).
    Icing can also occur without snow. When it's very cold (under 10 F) and it's also humid.
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater
    LucMan wrote: »
    The mini splits do not have aux. electric heaters.
    Some of the newer units do work down to 5 F and still put out sufficient heat.
    Here is the capacity table for 24K BTU Fujitsu mini split, the COP is still 1.8 at 5F

    Wrong if you bother to look - probably not all have an electric heater that can kick in but some certainly do.

    Russ
  • XRingerXRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater
    russ wrote: »
    Wrong if you bother to look - probably not all have an electric heater that can kick in but some certainly do.

    Russ

    Mine has a 60w crankcase heater that runs all the time. Even when the system is off.
    But, the modern 'inverter' type mini-splits being sold in the USA, don't seem
    to have aux heat (like the older heat pumps).
    At least none of the units that I researched before buying a Sanyo, had aux heat.

    When I look at the indoor half of my system, it's got a plastic cover and inside is pretty full of hardware.
    I don't think there is room for an 8 kW (27k BTUh) heating element inside the unit.

    It seems like there would be a fire risk, and if the R410A coil leaked out
    and sprayed onto a red-hot heating element, the fumes might be deadly..

    The gauge of the wiring coming inside the house (via the line-set hole), would have to be much larger (35 amps).

    It seems like you would need two 230vac power drops. One 10a-15a for the heat pump and a 40-50a for the aux heat..

    Yeah, I'll bet it's hard to find many new inverter-type models with aux heat.

    Cheers,
    Rich
  • SteveKSteveK Solar Expert Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    So far it appears several Sanyo's in the inverter variety are offered with aux heaters (up to 5kW) and the very costly EMI's are as well.

    I'm not sure what qualifies as a "mini" though but they are there at 26.

    From further reading, several people are satisfied with below zero F performance of the inverters alone with no aux element. They obviously have not had the pleasure of meeting my oldest daughter.....
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need reviews of this heater

    I have 2 of the eco heaters for a backup in case my gaswell shuts down during a cold spell. Used them and 2 of the 1500 watt oil filled heaters for february thru the rest of the winter in the year I bought them. Think 2003. Think my electric bill went up about $100, per mounth using them. I didn,t have any burnt or scorched walls. I got mine from ebay at the time and I think seller offered a plugin thermostat which might be the way to go. I don,t think I would recomend them as a money saver on heat but would recomend them if you just needed a little extra heat in the bathroom or in a room where you want it warmer than the rest of the house. Solarvic
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