Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

Mick-UK
Mick-UK Registered Users Posts: 19
Hi, We are an English couple who last Oct flew to the USA to tour the USA & Canada,buying in the process a Fleetwood Discovery 39ft diesel RV and Jeep.

We are currently just outside Toronto,Canada but will soon re-cross the border into the USA to resume our tour south via the east coast back towards Florida.

The Discovery's power itinerary consists of an Onan 7.5kw gen,Freedom 458 120V /12V AC/DC Converter w/2000-Watt Inverter,4 x 6volt Trojan T105 batteries. I am no electrician but I believe that all of the above is the standard American 'A' class RV set-up?

Once the touring is over we intend to ship BOTH vehicles back to the UK to tour both the UK & Europe.

In the UK I intend to keep the RV's electrics system as 120v and connect to any UK or European supply 230v via a transformer, however the MAX UK supply is 16amp & 230v, France could be as low as 2-3amp.

When it comes to our electric consumption per day/week or month I would say that we would use no more than any average couples.

Now I requested members on my Discovery Owners forum to recommend any companies in the USA who could supply and install a solar panel system to our RV and one member suggested I try Wind & Sun hence this posting.

So far either rightly or wrongly I have been looking for a system of at least 200 watts my theory being too much is better than too little??

No route south has been planned so we just await the 'right' company to make themselves know so that we can take in a visit to their town and state to get the solar system installed.

Thank You

Mick

Comments

  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Non-solar related, North America is 60 hertz where as Europe is 50 hertz. This maybe a problem with some of the electronic in the coach.

    Solar- Whatever panels you do use, check the warranty, some will not honor it if mounted on a bus.

    Also welcome to the USA !!!!
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Mick, you need to inventory your AC use. If at all possible get a P3 Kill-A-Watt meter as this little gadget plugs into the wall receptacles or ? and then the appliance into the meter and it will record the watts you use. you will have to ude it on each appliance / light you use but you get the picture.
    Once you have the total watts for a day calculated, that will tell us what minimum panel size should be. Also the calculations will account for losses (inefficiencies) of charge controller, inverter, wire, etc in converting PV into 120 v AC.
    You are just at the beginning, it is a long but simple process once you get the basics under your belt.
    Cheers

    Eric
    ps hope you are enjoying Canada. Be aware that there is a string of tropical storms /Hurricanes in process this week all along the eastern seaboard from Florida to Newfoundland and all points in between. they seem to be spawned every second day this year so far.
    Hurricane season can last till December
    ej
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Mick-UK
    Mick-UK Registered Users Posts: 19
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Thank you for the replies so far, please keep them comming.

    n3qik. I am aware of the hertz problems I may experience thankfully due to the membership of an American RV forum, on there they claim that the difference may cause the microwave to buzz,timers will be out of sync and and clocks won't keep time,the A/C units and heat pumps make a lot of noise,as if they are working very hard.

    westbranch. I have tried to inventory our daily power usage but as I see it can vary so much from day to day eg If it is sunny we will be out of the RV so small power use however if it rains then we could spend most of the day watching the TV.
    I polled the membership on the forum I mention above who have fitted solar panels asking them what size panels and output they had and did they find there set up lacking or sufficient in power. Using this information I believe we require something between 200 - 300 watts.

    I have one further question, "Is this forum owned or operated by Wind & Sun?
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    in general you will have to get a better idea of the watthours per day you will typically need. also, there may be further compliations when only being able to mount so many pvs on the top of the rv and they will undoubtedly be laying flatly which is not optimal for solar production, but simplifies the complexity of having to aim it. that would also be impossible to aim when driving down the road. while parked you can make small mounts and have some extra pvs remoted from the rv, but this increases the possibility of theft.
    i won't get too detailed, but there is more to it than just getting pvs onto the rv as there's the wires, fuses, charge controller, combiners if needed, batteries in a battery box, and the inverter if you opt for alternating current and the proper sizing of these items. most will have backup to solar by partially charging from the alternator (alternators can only supply part of the bulk charge and the rest via another means like solar) and when there's not enough solar, a good inverter generator and a quality ac charger with at least 2 stages of charging and preferably 3 stages. all of these areas and maybe more can have options within these catagories so there is much to consider.
    northern arizona wind & sun does own this forum and that may be a very large detour to get to them. it also depends on where and by when you want this done because there are places in maryland and florida for sure that have the stuff. now installing this i'm not so sure as certain rv places would probably do the installs. some others here may be able to recommend some places that could accomodate you.
  • Mick-UK
    Mick-UK Registered Users Posts: 19
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Well guy's I am seriously wondering just what I'm getting into by installing solar panels to my RV, I am getting more anti solar system installation than positive :confused::confused:

    First let me correct my 'other' sources of solar information.

    I have now received two company recommendations from my Discovery Owners forum for companies able to supply and install a solar system.

    Wind & Sun and AM Solar, Inc BOTH companies being on or towards the west coast of the US.

    However on my American RV owners forum all the postings are from members suggesting reasons NOT to install solar panels, here are a few:
    I did some investigating the solar power route and came to the conclusion that is wasn't worth the money. Adding more batteries and an inverter seems to be a more cost efficient way to go. Solar panels on the roof are subject to hail and wind damage and they must be periodically cleaned, which means getting up on the roof, which I don't like doing.
    I agree with seilerbird - in most cases additional batteries make more economic sense than a large solar panel.

    When gave the reason of installing solar was to reduce my carbon foot print I got this response.
    What they don't tell you is the carbon footprint associated with manufacturing the solar panels

    Confused Mick
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    1) your Freedom 458 inverter, do you know if it is pure sine wave, or modified sine wave?

    2) inherently, there is no major difference between a 60Hz & 50Hz inverter, just the frequency they run at, and *mabye* the quality of iron in the transformer. Many transformers are listed at 50/60Hz. Motors can be a very different story, the frequency turns into a large shift in rpms on a conventional 3600 rpm motor.

    3) By all means, skip solar, and buy gasoline instead, the $3000 you would spend on panels can buy 750 gallons of gas (at $4/gal) AND the carbon footprint with the gas.

    4) Seriously - The latest calculation I've seen for PV mfg payback, is about 3 or 4 years.
    Hail - Many panels are rated to take a 1" (25mm) steel ball, from a hight of 1M
    from a BP data sheet: Hailstone impact: 1 inch (25 mm) at 52 mph (23 m/s) and
    http://www.roofery.com/solar-panels/hail-damage.html suggests using smaller panels, so if one breaks, it's not 50% of your generation. There is usually no repairing PV panels, they break, you replace. Also, a smaller sheet of glass may be stronger, but, that may vary if they thin the glass down. There are also plastic lens panels, on a Galvalume® steel backing plate, that you can actually shoot bullets http://www.ae-zone.org/Designs/altNRG/panels.html thru , and they still work (just a % reduced). Those are made by Unisolar. However, the material they are made from, generally degrades 10 or 20% the first year, and that is accounted for in their warranty. http://www.uni-solar.com/interior.asp?id=100 They also require a larger area, for the same wattage.

    Cleaning - Obviously, bird droppings will shade, and drastically reduce output. Any shadow will reduce power output tremendously. Regular Washing, as when you wash the rest of your rig, should keep it clean. A thin layer of road grime does not seem to be as bad as some think.

    Air Conditioning - Your panels (200 - 400W) will not run an air conditioner for very long at all, you will have to rely on generator. And your 7.5KW generator is a pretty large genset. It will run your AC & microwave and lights at the same time, but at the cost of noise and fuel. Possibly consider a small honda EC1000 generator, you can use it for 20 minutes in the morning to make your coffee from, and recharge batteries, and let the solar top the batteries off the rest of the day.

    Charge controller. You need something to regulate the power from the panels, so you do not over charge your batteries. While the T105's are rugged, and 300W of panels wont damage them, you will have to add a lot of distilled water. You can also use a MPPT style of controller to down convert panels wired for 75V @ 4A (thin wires) to 12V @ 25A (heavy copper wire$) at the battery, so you only have short lengths of expen$ive 6gauge wire. Also get a battery temperature sensor (BTS) for the charge controller.

    Refrigerator - A propane/electric fridge is a good combo. Keep the venting system clean for the propane, it needs to discharge the heat. For the electric part, I guess you will need about 400W of panels to run a fridge completely off solar. RV fridges are not know to be very efficient, and refrigeration is very demanding of power. I'm no expert of RV fridges, so maybe I'm wrong in my guess on this.

    Alternator Booster. Most vehicle alternators are designed to charge a starting battery, not a deep cycle battery. Their 13.8V is fine for starters, but deep cycle batteries need to get up to the mid 14V range for full charge. This all depends on what your driveing cycle is, 8 months out of the year, daily 6 hour trip, or 3 weekends a year, and then the rest of the time, the solar and charge controller will keep the batteries topped off.

    Here is a website that may assist you with load sizing calculations, chose any battery, and calculate the KWH from the final results.
    Here for battery sizing calculator : (javascript required)
    http://www.freesunpower.com/battery_designer.php Also, of note, the "diagrams" at the battery sizing tool site. They show a poor way to wire the batteries. Connecting on the "diagonal" will extend the life of the batteries by helping share the loads. Here's a great writeup on how to properly wire your battery bank (diagonally) http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

    Lots of stuff to consider. You may even want to look at a solar hot water heater for showers, and save on propane too. If it was me, I'd add as much solar as I could afford, and find space for. I think the next 5 years will see much higher energy prices, and you will be glad for the solar power.

    That's my nickel's worth. Mike
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Mick-UK
    Mick-UK Registered Users Posts: 19
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Mike,

    Wow, thank you for that information which I am still reading and figuring out,however as you asked the question very early about my Freedom 458 inverter I thought I'd answer that immediately in case it's type seriously altered things????

    Well I believe that the 458 is modified sine wave.....whatever that means. Please bear in mind I have had no electronics training and will only tackle minor electrical problems eg change plug or bulb on either an AC or DC circuit.

    Thanks Mick
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    seeing as how most alternators are not very good at bringing batteries to their full charge, it is a good consideration to have a small pv with a charge controller and battery temperature sensor to keep the batteries you have charging past just 60-90% (varies). the minimum would be an output current rating from the pvs of no less than 3% of the amphour capacity of the battery(s) and no higher than 13%. generator charging is an good option, but very noisy for long timeperiods and is recommended for a backup to charge your batteries with.
    going solar is very costly, but adding more undercharged batteries won't solve the problem either as batteries are also very expensive, especially when they fail early from not being allowed to fully charge. what's the carbon footprint of the rv itself? pretty high, but the power you need in the wilds or on the road is the subject and how it is you are going to get it as that's not a street car or cable car you're driving. if it were about carbon footprints you shouldn't be driving something so big let alone driving at all for recreation purposes.
  • heynow999
    heynow999 Solar Expert Posts: 80 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Mick, I would bet that many of the people on an RV forum are older Americans who had a lifetime of cheap energy and just don't understand conservation like Europeans do. Install the panels. I live near Toronto and my suggestion would be to have the work done in the US, as you seem prepared to do. You can get things much cheaper in the US.

    http://www.rv.net/

    a busy RV forum
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Interesting that all three responders don't appear to own solar. That said, if you can afford a new diesel 39' coach and the fuel to operate it in the USA, and after that, put it on a ship and send it to the UK and then use it to tour Europe, I'd probably just go with a genset and good battery bank. Carbon feeds trees, they'll love you for it.

    Cheers,

    Bad Apple
  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer
    Bad Apple wrote: »
    Interesting that all three responders don't appear to own solar. That said, if you can afford a new diesel 39' coach and the fuel to operate it in the USA, and after that, put it on a ship and send it to the UK and then use it to tour Europe,

    I do, also have my homepage listing how it was done. I have also own a RV trailer and boondock for a week at a time. There is little sound insulation in those things. The noise for a genset, tho very low with a modern one, Can be heard throughout a coach/trailer.

    I can see why they are looking at solar.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Mick, just a few comments based on my solar use experience...

    1 it is pricey, but silent

    2 I use a 'hybrid' system, part solar and part gen set, gen used for running tools and appliance type stuff... heavy power loads.

    3 I currently have 240 w @ 12 v and this is good for lights for each evening. I have switched to LED 'bulbs rather than Quartz Halogen as they need about 20% of the power (watts)

    4 due to easy use each night, periodic use of cabin, my 240 w PV's are able to replace the use by about 10 am the next day.
    more use = longer charge time

    5 as others have said the slow charging is what PV's do best, so heavy demand means using the gen to fast charge the battery to ~ 90% charge, then the PVs takeover.

    6 get a good Battery Monitor in addition to
    a reasonable MPPT Charge controller with a Batt Temp Sensor (BTS), sometimes called remote sensor.

    the BTS guarantees the best charge for your batt at its temp,
    the MPPT maximizes the charge your PVs can produce and
    the Monitor lets you see just what you really took out and put back into your (expensive) battery(ies)

    7 use a True Sine Wave inverter, not MSW, less power wasted as heat in motors and will probably save some delicate electronic devices, battery chargers, Laptop , camera, etc.

    HTH

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    MSW is Modified Square Wave... Basically, your utility power is a sine wave (smooth transitions, sine/cos/etc. is described by a point going around a circle).

    A MSW is a square wave, Either at 120 Volts or at -120 volts, with a very abrupt transition (close to the equivalent of a switch turning on and off)...

    Problem is that AC (alternating current) equipment is designed to use the smooth 50 or 60Hz wave form. Motors, electronics, and such see the square wave as not only the fundamental 50/60Hz wave form, but higher harmonics too (not a "pure" fundamental wave form, but with lots of higher frequency components).

    For 80-90% of the equipment out there--probably does not make a big difference--perhaps wastes a 20% or so more power. With solar and expensive power--not great--but better than using your generator to power a few lights and a small fan over the stove.

    My two cents worth... Build out your unit with very efficient appliances 120 VAC 60 Hz appliances and get a good true sine wave inverter setup. Also, for your shore power, see if you can find a charging system that will take 100-264 volts AC 50/60 Hz--then you won't have to change it when you bring it back "home".

    You will also be able to find some appliances/computers/etc. equipment that will do 100-264 VAC 50/60Hz--so when you go back, you will just have to cut off the North American plugs and put on your local plug.

    And, when you go back--I would look to see if you can sell your 120 VAC 60Hz inverter in the US, and just bite the bullet to convert your AC system to 220 VAC 50Hz back in Europe. Changing a few outlets, changing out the Circuit Breakers, to a 220 VAC 60Hz Inverter, possibly coach/shore Battery Charger, generator,...

    Hmmm, that is staring to get expensive... So gensets can be adjusted to run 50 or 60Hz--make sure your can. And they can run 240/120 VAC (grounded neutral in the US)... You would just have to pull the 240 VAC pair to your European outlets. If you have major appliances--Fridge, washer/drier--it may be difficult to find 50/60Hz combination units here.

    If you are having the coach custom built--tell them your requirements. They should be able to prep. your system for European use (without too much extra in costs--perhaps run both NA and European outlets in your coach. I don't think you will be the first person to make this sort of request.

    -Bill

    PS: Adding solar--if you can justify the costs and are relatively energy efficient--then I think you will enjoy the quiet. It will not power your Air Conditioner and large equipment (washer/drier)--but you can run your gen set/use shore power when you need to run those items.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer
    Bad Apple wrote: »
    Interesting that all three responders don't appear to own solar. That said, if you can afford a new diesel 39' coach and the fuel to operate it in the USA, and after that, put it on a ship and send it to the UK and then use it to tour Europe, I'd probably just go with a genset and good battery bank. Carbon feeds trees, they'll love you for it.

    Cheers,

    Bad Apple

    interesting you'd say that for what are those unisolar 64s doing with that sb50 at my place then? i also said it wasn't about a carbon footprint in so many words too because that would be like consuming 15000 calories in a day and expect to make things right by drinking a diet drink to wash it all down with. solar does have its place for rvs whether you go all out or not for whatever reason.
  • heynow999
    heynow999 Solar Expert Posts: 80 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer
    Bad Apple wrote: »
    Interesting that all three responders don't appear to own solar.

    I have a 28 foot diesel A-class RV that I run on waste vegetable oil. We have solar panels on the roof. We never run our generator. It's loud and stinky. I am guessing that you don't own an RV.
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer
    niel wrote: »
    interesting you'd say that for what are those unisolar 64s doing with that sb50 at my place then? i also said it wasn't about a carbon footprint in so many words too because that would be like consuming 15000 calories in a day and expect to make things right by drinking a diet drink to wash it all down with. solar does have its place for rvs whether you go all out or not for whatever reason.

    As I said regarding amophorphous panels, I have no experience with them but I wouldn't buy them for more than $.20 on the dollar if they are 10 years old. My opinion only, too bad if that insults you. I never said solar doesn't have a place in RV'ing, just not sure if it's suitable for the OP. Not sure why you think I was calling you out, niel, I was just stating my opinion. Who knows, maybe the OP will agree with it.

    Bad Apple
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer
    heynow999 wrote: »
    I have a 28 foot diesel A-class RV that I run on waste vegetable oil. We have solar panels on the roof. We never run our generator. It's loud and stinky. I am guessing that you don't own an RV.

    You're correct, I don't have an RV, just 1.5kw grid tied solar for my home. I'll bet your diesel A-class RV is more "loud and stinky" than the generator you never use, WVO or not.

    BA
  • Mick-UK
    Mick-UK Registered Users Posts: 19
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Hi Guy's,

    Thanks for all the postings and comments but could we please get back to the threads title.

    Just for the record we sold our UK house to fund the RV in which we intend to full time both whilst in the USA / Canada during our tour AND when we ship back to the UK.

    The American RV particular the 'A' class is ideal and built in my opinion for full timing.

    Yes they are BIG and so you guys think our (UK) roads are small but I will be able to drive our RV where ever a bus or tour coach goes.

    We intend to keep the RV and tour for some time but as I said in my original opening posting at some if not the majority of European camp grounds mains hook-up power may be as low as 2-3 amp so we will have to use the inverter / batteries or as some of you point out our noisy / smelly diesel generator:blush:

    Please please if possible some companies in the USA / East side who can supply and install a solar system.:cool:
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    There should be many RV parts and service places like Camping World that can supply and install solar.

    I believe that some of this places (Camping World too?) will install equipment that has not been purchased from their stores.

    My guess is that Camping world, and other such places will sell solar systems--but not necessarily the better solar charge controllers and inverters like you you have seen us discuss here. So, you may end up buying the components from a place like our host, NAWS, and then finding an RV service location to install.

    I have used Camper World once to install an A/C unit on a camper trailer I have... They were fine and competitively priced (I am on the West Coast). But it has been 10 years so I can not tell you how they are today.

    For example, the link I provided above sells a SunForce 30 amp solar charge controller (their website is hardly working for me this morning)... I don't know anything about the product but I would hazard to guess that it does not support a remote battery temperature sensor (could not find manual online).

    You may have to pick your desired equipment (like a MorningStar MPPT controller) and go to their website and ask them (or even call/email NAWS directly--NAWS does not monitor this forum for business related issues/questions/or support) and ask for dealer/installers of their product for the East Coast.

    You may get lucky and find a wonderful RV dealer/installer that has MorningStar, Outback, Xantrex and other "high end" solar equipment and know how to install and program. Or, you may end up ordering/supplying the equipment and "helping" the installer to properly mount the equipment, and end up programming the charger/inverters yourself (if you get that kind of equipment). Or you may get a "mix" of solar panels and inverters from the RV center and supply just a Morning Star or Outback type charge controller to finish up the install.

    I am sorry that I don't have more information to better answer your question.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    I know thismay be a simplistic answer, but a friend with an Airstream had good success, after he researched what he wanted for the install, with his Airstream dealer...
    Have you contacted the Units manufacturer for their recommendation(s) ?

    HTH

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • shastaron
    shastaron Registered Users Posts: 24
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Mick, I usually stay out of these discussion since I am such a rookie at the solar. Even though these people have helped me a lot and we are on our way to a 4.2 K off-grid system for the ranch.

    I spend a lot of time in my RV so I feel like I can help you a little. First question would be how much time will you spend connected to shore power (grid)? When not connected what will be running off your inverter (load) TV, DVD, Satelite Dish, Micro or A/C (not a good idea), Coffee (tea), etc. How much will you use your generator? How long will you be sitting off-grid between driving?

    I do a lot of camping not connected to grid so here is what I did. Two roof top 150 watt each ICP panels, 4-Trojan 6 volt batteries, and the ICP controller. Installed by camping world. All of this was before I learned as much as I have here.

    If I was going to do it again I would add a third panel. They would be fixed since I don't like climbing on the roof all the time. I would require the installer to upgrade to a heavier guage wire to minimize the line loss.

    If you have the room add more batteries. 2-6 volts at a time are a great option and provide a vast storage improvement over the 12 volts. Increased storage saves money in battery life.

    As others have explained sine wave inverter is the only way to go since you have sensitive electronics. Select one with high amperage back charge circuit to maintain the batteries (others are better than me on this advice).

    I added a propane catalytic heater to reduce the use of the forced air furnace and it helped a lot when in the snow or in short daylight conditions.

    Examine your consumption. For example I found that the 12 volt lights in all areas of the coach had two bulbs and were very bright. I removed 1 bulb in each fixture in some of the areas and nobody noticed (1/2 the draw). Replace regular 12 bulb fixture with single tube florescent in halls and non reading areas.

    I am a fanatic about turning off lights you are not using. My laptop runs off a 12 volt cord and seems to be more efficient.

    In regards to the european grid situation I am at a loss. The amperage is to low to run most things off grid shore power. I have a 30' Class A and run a 30 amp circuit. Your 39' probably needs a 50 amp. The A/C's my load shift to work on 30 amp. If I am hooked to a 15 amp circuit I can run the 1-AC and nothing else major without popping the 15 amp circuit. If no AC or forced air I can run the rest on the 15 amp shore circuit. You may have to rig so you run only off your coach and the shore power is only for charging the batteries.

    Their is a good website for RV advice (not competition with Wind & Sun) iRV2dotCom. It has a boon docking section and many RV service technicians who might understand the specific RV power issues as they apply to Europe.

    Good Luck
    Ron

    p.s. I have never had any damage to my panels (knock on wood) from pine cones. Just watch out for overhanging limbs at roof level when driving otherwise you will lose panels, AC, vents, antennas, etc.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    For your Euro campsite/hookups, you may have to consider just using a small 12V battery charger, and park in the sun, or additionally run your generator.
    Euro Mains
    220V 2A = 440W @ 15V = 29 Charging amps
    220V 3A = 660W @ 15V = 44 Charging amps

    Spread over a day, that's a LOT of power. You could easily run a lot of things, but most air conditioners need more than 600W.

    > European camp grounds mains hook-up power may be as low as 2-3 amp
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Mick-UK
    Mick-UK Registered Users Posts: 19
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Thanks again for ALL your input.

    One of our main problems with being foreign tourists and buying products from one part of the USA and having it installed at another is co-ordinating the two locations.

    We have a mail address in Florida which is also the address for our US bank, now when it comes to buying using a credit card they like and normally insist that any goods are shipped to the same address that appears on your statement,this could mean weeks in items being sent first to Florida then re- directed to another address, hence my request for the solar supplier and installer being one of the same.

    Sorry I didn't make this point earlier :blush: only this thread is already half way becoming as long as War & Peace LOL.

    Further information is that ALL lighting in the RV is 12 volt and I will consider changing any bulbs to LED's if the power saving is worth it and a suitable LED bulb is available.

    Ron Yes my RV does have a 50amp hook up, now in the UK most electric hook-ups are 16amp and I'm informed by those who know that 16amp @ 220volts = 30amps when converted via a transformer to 110 volts:confused:

    Now how people complete those power usage charts is a mystery to me as a lot depends on the weather and your plans for that day.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    > Now how people complete those power usage charts is a mystery to
    > me as a lot depends on the weather and your plans for that day.

    You plan for a rainy day !! Stuck inside, drying out shoes and socks. If you have good weather, you will leave you roof vents cracked open to keep from coming home to an oven.


    LED replacement bulbs for automotive lamps, there are many on-line stores to chose them from. I'd opt for the WARM white color, not daylight or cool white. They draw much less wattage than incandescent bulbs. Sometimes, a 10 or 20W halogen bulb is a better choice when you really need "good" light (for womens makeup, or food on the kitchen table) and an LED just does not focus the light in the right manner.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    Mick, just had d poke around some of the sites generated by searching for LED automotive replacement buld and LED mastlight replacement bulb.

    Noted that there are some LED units that are only meant for 'regulated 12 v' and not suitable for a system with a charger on it.

    read the fine print as there are lots of LEDs that are meant for use in an automotive application

    Also look at MastLights (mast head lights) if you have an area that needs a lot of light, as they have LEDs on all 4 sides and would be suitable for use in the light units (as long as the diameter would fit in your receptacle) you most likely have where the bulb is mounted with its axis parallel to the floor. We have that type of mounting unit in our 10 foot camper.
    The reason I mention these lights is that most LED replacements are directional and 'point' the beam out the end of the LED rather than the side.
    the standard LED replacement is good for a 'reading light' type of fixture, but not the horizontal mount...

    Here is a bulb cross reference table link.

    http://www.superbrightleds.com/bulb_cross.htm

    HTH

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Mick-UK
    Mick-UK Registered Users Posts: 19
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    To up date you guy's, we have now crossed back into the USA and were given a further 6 months on our tourist visa,we are currently at Niagara Falls NY visiting friends as well as getting very very frustrated and a little angry :grr at a solar company called The RV Solar Shop who are located approx 250 miles from our location.

    I have emailed BOTH via their web email system as well as via 'normal' Microsoft Outlook means and telephoned them several times only to be diverted to a voice mail box where I have left my contact details but have received no reply :confused:

    On the rare occasion I have spoken to a member of their 'sales' team the person appeared to have even less knowledge regarding solar equipment than I have.

    Now we want to move back towards Florida and I have found another 'solar' selling equipment company in Maryland.

    Now sometime ago I tried telephoning this company only to again find myself being directed to a voice mail box where I again left my contact details and guess what.................I am still waiting for a call.

    I have to laugh because I see in this forums General Solar Topics a thread titled, " How do we get more people into Solar?"

    Perhaps with some companies the answer would be to communicate with customers who genuinely wish to purchase a system.

    The further problem for these companies is that most camp grounds up here have closed or are closing in Oct until next year so we have no where to 'wait' whilst parts are obtained and fitted and day by day that six month visa is reducing.
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer

    I've been RVing with and without solar for 25 years. We rarely camp in parks so we rely on solar or generators. From a money standpoint solar is hard to justify especially when you already have a generator. But......the lack of noise and vibration is worth something, especially when camping near others. The european power issues make the expense more palatable.

    I read the thread and didn't see any issues with you personally getting on the roof??? If that is not an issue why don't you install it yourself, you will insure a quality job that way & there's nothing to it, just run the power down the refrigerator vent & connect it through the charge controller to the the refrigerator 12 volt connections. That will get you up & running quickly.

    If the distance between the refrigerator and battery demands larger wire that will be an issue you will have to address as well as the permanent placement of the charge controller.

    I've had so many jobs done by licensed "professionals" of such low quality that I generally just do it myself. You may not be interested in doing it yourself but it is easy.
  • Mick-UK
    Mick-UK Registered Users Posts: 19
    Re: Looking for RV Solar System Supplier & Installer
    hypoxia wrote: »
    I've been RVing with and without solar for 25 years. We rarely camp in parks so we rely on solar or generators. From a money standpoint solar is hard to justify especially when you already have a generator. But......the lack of noise and vibration is worth something, especially when camping near others. The European power issues make the expense more palatable.

    I read the thread and didn't see any issues with you personally getting on the roof??? If that is not an issue why don't you install it yourself, you will insure a quality job that way & there's nothing to it, just run the power down the refrigerator vent & connect it through the charge controller to the the refrigerator 12 volt connections. That will get you up & running quickly.

    Hypoxia,

    I am somewhat embarrassed :blush:to admit that I am a little overweight and although I have no problem climbing onto the roof I have great difficulties bending or stooping. A couple of months ago I bought two covers for the RV's roof vents which when fitted allows the vents to be open even when it rains, I really, really struggled to install one,luckily one of my sons joined us for a two week holiday and installed the second cover.

    Mick