off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?

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dougahole
dougahole Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
I bought this fairly large inverter TRESS model TRS2000N (in size/weight) from the manufacturer, http://www.tresstech.cn/English/ProductDetail.asp?ID=458 in China. It runs quite well, but I am a little perplexed by the a/c input. This is supposed to be an 'off grid' inverter but it appears to be grid tie. There is little in the schematic and no explanation that I can find for the a/c other than to connect to another power source in order to supplement the power. Does anyone know if I can connect my generator to it to boost power? What are the consequences? Is there any danger of damaging the inverter?
Thanks
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?
    dougahole wrote: »
    I bought this fairly large inverter TRESS model TRS2000N (in size/weight) from the manufacturer, http://www.tresstech.cn/English/ProductDetail.asp?ID=458 in China. It runs quite well, but I am a little perplexed by the a/c input. This is supposed to be an 'off grid' inverter but it appears to be grid tie. There is little in the schematic and no explanation that I can find for the a/c other than to connect to another power source in order to supplement the power. Does anyone know if I can connect my generator to it to boost power? What are the consequences? Is there any danger of damaging the inverter?
    Thanks
    The web page describes a rather strange beast. The drawing shows a CC connected to the PV panels and driving a battery bank and DC loads, and also feeding the TRESS. But if the TRESS is getting high voltage DC from the panel array, there is no way that both it and a CC can be connected to the same set of panels at the same time.
    The specs do not mention anything about an AC input or any kind of grid or generator interactive mode.
    I do not know what to advise you on this, other than the belated advice not to buy one.
    And, yes there is a high risk of damaging the inverter, generator, or both if you connect one of them to the TRESS. Possibly the AC input (BTW, we usually us A/C to mean air conditioning) is there as the input to a transfer switch that lets you choose to use grid or inverter power?
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?
    inetdog wrote: »
    The web page describes a rather strange beast.

    My best guess is that it is a battery-less inverter. They seem to be popping up... SMA has a system that can make AC power without the grid or batteries. Check out http://www.cyboenergy.com/products/cimini1000t_overview.html for another off-grid battery-less inverter.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?

    Welcome to the forum.

    Unfortunately you're another victim of "buy junk, get junk". This includes products that may actually work but whose manufacturers can't right a manual that makes any sense whatsoever.

    It says it is "off grid" which means battery powered, but the 'diagram' (picture) shows it connecting to a charge controller rather than the batteries which is just plain wrong. The line drawing below that looks like it was done by someone without any clue about power flow. I half suspect it is an "all-in-one" unit, or more likely the write-up is a confused mess based on several different products made by the same company.

    Any time you see a promotional blurb that uses a phrase like "humanness design" run away.
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Any time you see a promotional blurb that uses a phrase like "humanness design" run away.

    That would be "running awayness", I believe. :)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • dougahole
    dougahole Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭✭
    #6
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    Re: off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?

    In reference to some of the comments. There are some out there who believe that if it is not made in the USA that it is not worth analysis. Look around you. Most solar products are made elsewhere than North America. Responding to a request for information with 'buy junk get junk' is old hat. This is the very reason that I stopped communicating with blogs like this one. If one does not have anything constructive to say, as my mother used to say, 'don't say anything'. That does not seem to apply here. I regret asking for help ,but do appreciate those who did come up with some more interesting dialogue. Thank you.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?

    I'm NOT someone who worries about thing made in USA. I'm sorta looking forward to seeing the New Heart Transverter which I believe will be made in Belize. Indeed this looks somewhat like it, and appears to be a 2 part system requiring a Controller which may Do some of the heavy lifting. They are claiming a 97% efficiency.

    I think 'inetdog' may see what many of us see, in that the diagram doesn't make much sense to us since it seems there is a system, rather than a simple inverter we are familiar with, though it is similar to the diagrams of the heart transverter. I suspect (I'm far from being an engineer) that the controller is a smart DC to DC converter, and creates the proper voltage for the AC inverter which creates a wave form. It likely can also create and monitor the proper voltage for charging batteries. This is what the Heart Transverter is suppose to do and it can support a wide range of battery bank sizes....

    ...but I'm swinging from the bleachers! I'm not an engineer, but we have some around here. Be patient and someone is likely to check this out who will be able to understand a bit better what is going on.

    This is a forum, likely the best exchange of ideas in the solar area. Included in it's members are some of the ground breakers and leaders in the industry... I'm just glad they put up with me! I suspect you were already frustrated, and perhaps the company hasn't been any help, yet. Obviously no one here who has read this yet is familiar, likely someone will be along that either is or might be able to follow up on information from the site.

    It would attract these people, who give freely of their time, if you seemed interested in their comments. I certainly found the website to contain what appear to be translation errors or difficulties, but note that these people went to the site to try to help you!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?
    dougahole wrote: »
    In reference to some of the comments. There are some out there who believe that if it is not made in the USA that it is not worth analysis. Look around you. Most solar products are made elsewhere than North America. Responding to a request for information with 'buy junk get junk' is old hat. This is the very reason that I stopped communicating with blogs like this one. If one does not have anything constructive to say, as my mother used to say, 'don't say anything'. That does not seem to apply here. I regret asking for help ,but do appreciate those who did come up with some more interesting dialogue. Thank you.

    No one said it was junk because it's made in China. Lots of good equipment is made there.

    It is junk because the documentation is so poor it is preventing you from using it. That was why you asked the question in the first place.

    You bought something trying to go low-dollar and now it doesn't work so you want someone else to make it work the way a quality component would.

    Don't try to blame other people for your folly.
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  • stmar
    stmar Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?

    The Heart Transverter looks interesting. Anybody have any real world experience or is it too new and who sells/services it??
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?

    I saw the inverter listed in a sunelec mailing for $999(? I think), but I didn't know if that was for both units or just the inverter. Haven't seen it listed else where. it has passed it's safety (UL I think) and is in trials in a few places. I've expressed that it feels like it has lots of advantages as a stand alone off grid unit, Since it will handly battery banks of various sizes and is modular/stackable. Everyone has problems 'growing' a system this would appear to make massive advances in that direction. Imagine buying a 12v system with a single 2kw inverter and not wasting anything when switching to a 36 volt system(doesn't support a 48v battery bank!) with 3 stacked units. Still vaporware at this point, but I can see the possibilities.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • dougahole
    dougahole Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭✭
    #11
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    Re: off grid 2kw inverter with a/c input?

    I guess that 'if the shoe fits wear it' is not the best thing that I can say in response to many of your remarks. I knew when I bought the unit that the documentation was not the greatest, and to be honest I am not disappointed with it, but would like to be able to know more about it. I am also not an expert or engineer so all the help that I can get is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.
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