Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?

767mrN#13
767mrN#13 Solar Expert Posts: 35
I’m setting up a mobile solar system that will be used to keep very basic things running in a blackout, such as an ice storm or another derecho like we had a few years back. I have 2, 158 watt solar panels that are going to be hooked together. The spec sheets are here: http://ep.yimg.com/ty/cdn/yhst-21796510175022/DM158M.pdf

The panels will be hooked to a ProStar 30 Controller that will be part of a 12 watt system. The control is the one here. http://www.amazon.com/MorningStar-ProStar-Battery-Controller-30/dp/B0070OS4JS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411871177&sr=8-1&keywords=ProStar+30

Now I’m trying to figure out, what wires should I get to hook the panels to the controller. And I understand I should have a breaker between the two. What type of breaker should I look for?

Is there anything I missed?

I appreciate help. I’m pretty ignorant about electricity and, to be quite honest, wouldn’t have gotten started on this if I knew how complex it really was.

IN REPLY TO QUESTION RE: MY ORIGINAL POST

The batteries I'd use would be:

1) I'll be picking up a deep cell (not sure of the size)
2) In the event of a natural disaster, flashlight batteries disappear. The type of batteries I'd need won't. So I could always go out and get another.
3) The two out of the autos (yes, I know those aren't the best type to use)

I would be checking and charging the batteries every quarter. It might take a day in the summer and a week in the winter, but so be it.

The battery/batteries would be used to recharge laptops, cell phones, lights that are recharged with AC power. They be used a little to power a small television and/or radio to keep up on what is happening. In the summer the system would also be used to run a box fan or standing fan at night.

Comments

  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?

    What are you trying to power?
    And how much have you spent so far?

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?

    Start with what all you want to power and how long you want to power these things. when we know that (your needs), we'll know how to answer.
    Second thing, with what little info you've provided so far - - - it sounds like your proposed system will be sitting unused for extended periods, perhaps years, waiting to be used. BAD for solar systems, when you finally need it, the batteries may well be no longer any good.
    I strongly suspect you'd be far better off with a generator for this application.
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?
    767mrN#13 wrote: »
    And I understand I should have a breaker between the two. What type of breaker should I look for?
    To answer this specific question:

    The breaker between the panels and the controllers is for convenience, you can use it as a switch to turn on and off the PV input to the controller. The breaker is sized to be large enough that the current from the PV will never trip it. You wouldn't want to trip the breaker every time the sun shines brightly.

    The most important (essential) breakers are those between the battery and everything else. You must have a breaker between the output of the controller and the battery. You must have a breaker between the battery and inverter. Anything and everything that connects to the battery must have a breaker.

    --- end of answer to specific question

    general comment: I think you need to rethink the system... what are the loads (fridge, water pump, etc)? how often and for how long will the system be used?

    for many folks a generator is the most cost effective way to deal with an occasional outage. It may make sense to have a small battery system to run lights and radio for a few hours per day, so that you can turn off the generator for some quiet time.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • Organic Farmer
    Organic Farmer Solar Expert Posts: 128 ✭✭
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?

    767mrN#13 -

    A "mobile solar system", I assume means that you want to fold it up and store it in a box, until needed?

    Two 158w panels = 316w
    times 75% efficiency = 237w
    times 4 hours of daylight per day = 948w/h/d

    If you found a perfect battery to store that power in, you could run a coffee pot for about 30 minutes once a day. But you did not speak of any batteries.

    You could likely charge a phone and run a laptop, during daylight hours.



    For that size system you do not need any breakers.
  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?
    I strongly suspect you'd be far better off with a generator for this application.

    That's what I was thinking. A generator can sit around for 5 or 10 years and start right up when needed depending on the engine.
    Keep a can of gasoline for it and replace it every few months by dumping it in your cars gas tank.

    After 5 years those batteries will be nearly dead from sitting. Plus every 6 months or so the batteries will self discharge to the point where they will need to be charged before use.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • 767mrN#13
    767mrN#13 Solar Expert Posts: 35
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?
    oil pan 4 wrote: »
    That's what I was thinking. A generator can sit around for 5 or 10 years and start right up when needed depending on the engine.
    Keep a can of gasoline for it and replace it every few months by dumping it in your cars gas tank.

    After 5 years those batteries will be nearly dead from sitting. Plus every 6 months or so the batteries will self discharge to the point where they will need to be charged before use.



    The batteries I'd use would be:

    1) I'll be picking up a deep cell (not sure of the size)
    2) In the event of a natural disaster, flashlight batteries disappear. The type of batteries I'd need won't. So I could always go out and get another.
    3) The two out of the autos (yes, I know those aren't the best type to use)

    I would be checking and charging the batteries every quarter. It might take a day in the summer and a week in the winter, but so be it.

    The battery/batteries would be used to recharge laptops, cell phones, lights that are recharged with AC power. They be used a little to power a small television and/or radio to keep up on what is happening. In the summer the system would also be used to run a box fan or standing fan at night.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?

    Because self discharge can accelerate sulfation of the plates:

    Recharge flooded cell batteries at least once per month for ~24 hours minimum.

    Recharge AGM/GEL perhaps every 3-6 months.

    Cycle the batteries every so often (one a year to once a month) to make sure they will meet your needs when the power does fail.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?

    OK, so developed my "solar monolith" years ago. (build pictorial):
    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2074858&id=1196643274&l=7e66e96c3c
    It could be modified to have 2 hinged panels, and 2, 6V golf cart batteries to make a 12V system. Add a Morningstar suresine300 inverter
    and a decent charge controller, and you are set. Get a good $50 dolly at the hardware store, and you can roll it around anywhere, including monthly recharge in the sun.

    Attachment not found. Attachment not found.

    post here:http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?20606-Need-help-in-designing-DIY-Emergency-Solar-System-for-small-apartment&p=165625#post165625
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • 767mrN#13
    767mrN#13 Solar Expert Posts: 35
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?
    mike95490 wrote: »
    OK, so developed my "solar monolith" years ago. (build pictorial):
    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2074858&id=1196643274&l=7e66e96c3c
    It could be modified to have 2 hinged panels, and 2, 6V golf cart batteries to make a 12V system. Add a Morningstar suresine300 inverter
    and a decent charge controller, and you are set. Get a good $50 dolly at the hardware store, and you can roll it around anywhere, including monthly recharge in the sun.

    Attachment not found. Attachment not found.

    post here:http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?20606-Need-help-in-designing-DIY-Emergency-Solar-System-for-small-apartment&p=165625#post165625


    I appreciate you posting this. I like to see what others have done. What types/sizes of wires do you think I should run from the panels to the inverter? Do you think I need a breaker with this system?
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?

    Any time you have a battery, even a relatively small one like in Mike's Monolith, you need either a breaker or a fuse. Preferably a fuse right at one battery terminal, but at the far end of good quality wire protected from physical damage is better than nothing.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?
    767mrN#13 wrote: »
    3) The two out of the autos (yes, I know those aren't the best type to use)

    When its time to replace the batteries in the vehicles pay a little more for deep cycle marine and then you will always have 2 ready to go.
    Deep cycle marine aren't the best for backup power. but they better than straight up auto starting batteries.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • 767mrN#13
    767mrN#13 Solar Expert Posts: 35
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?
    inetdog wrote: »
    Any time you have a battery, even a relatively small one like in Mike's Monolith, you need either a breaker or a fuse. Preferably a fuse right at one battery terminal, but at the far end of good quality wire protected from physical damage is better than nothing.

    What type of fuse breaker should I get? Any suggestions where I should get it? I'm assuming the company that hosts this site sells them, but want to make sure I get the right one.
  • 767mrN#13
    767mrN#13 Solar Expert Posts: 35
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?

    Good idea, Inetdog!
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?

    There are many choices from NAWS:

    http://www.solar-electric.com/installation-parts-and-equipment/midnite.html

    Fuses can be a good solution--But breakers are not a bad choice either... Blow one or two fuses, and you probably have paid for a breaker.

    Also, many times it is nice to have some way to turn off your DC power (turn off an inverter when shutting place up for the winter, servicing, etc.). "Switches" for high DC current seem to cost more than circuit breakers themselves.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Could someone offer guidance to a clueless person?

    Since it's a small 12V system, I just used a fuse panel (visible at the interior view) and some 15A automotive fuses. I have nothing that really pulls a huge load that needs a larger fuse.

    As to wire, stranded, 8gauge wire and 20A fuses to protect it, would be a good start.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,