TOU metering new E-6 rate, PG&E

RoderickRoderick Solar Expert Posts: 253 ✭✭
I'm starting another thread, since this was just a side question in another topic.
Yep, PG&E and E-7... Sorry to see it not available anymore. Although, I did think it was "too good to be true" and it did not make much sense for a company in business to sell power to me under this hybrid solar/TOU plan. Except, this year, because I don't have an electric vehicle (or AC) at this time and oversized my solar array, PG&E will get to keep my ~$200 1 year net metered credit...

Roderick, what is the new TOU plan and does it affect E-1 residential with solar too? I did not quite understand how it works from the rate sheets. If it s Schedule "S", it sounds like a nightmare to calculate, measure, and understand how it interacts with solar (given that solar is not a consistent source of power from 10am through 8pm--as an example).

I guess I now have to wait and see how long before they change me (and I lose the $277 E-7 meter they sold me).

E-6 ends up costing a minimum of about $12 a month, the way I see it.  They refuse to sell you the new meter, and instead, lease it to you forever for a monthly fee.  There is also a minimum charge of 1 kWh per day, even if you don't use it, or are a net generator of electricity (i.e, you must pay for 30 kWh per month).  And, the on/off peak rates are something like 20 cents vs. 11 cents.  It's almost as if someone sat down in a room and said, "How can we make TOU metering not worth it for solar?"  I see E-6 as a win for me, but just barely.

I don't think there's any effect on E-1 rates, but I have heard rumors that the long term goal is to put every single customer on TOU. The logistical barriers to making this happen would be large, but if it does happen, I'm not sure whether that would be good or bad for solar. Probably bad, because the main residential base cannot be given a "too good to be true" deal.

My impression is that it's very hard for the power company to discontinue an old rate schedule, as it has to go past the Public Utilities Commission.  It would also be expensive to change out everyone's meter to another type, and even harder to get the PUC to agree to charge the end users for it.  So I feel happy for those who got in on the E-7 schedule, or one of the older, even better TOU schedules.

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,722 admin
    Re: TOU metering new E-6 rate, PG&E

    Hmmmm,

    Looking at the applicable part-peak weekends/days/times--the evening section sure knocks solar right out of the ball park--although, the extra two part-peak hours from 10-noon seems to make up (a bit) for the extra times at night...

    I would have to run a spread sheet to see if there was any advantage to these rates--but I would probably just tank the whole E-6 and go with standard E-1 residential. The increased complexity of the rates--which make sense for PG&E (where there is a second peak around 8pm that is almost as big as the daytime peak during the summer)--does not map well into solar and off-peak usage patterns for me.

    If I get an Electric Vehicle, perhaps an E-9 rate would work for that (or other off-peak power hungry applications).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • RoderickRoderick Solar Expert Posts: 253 ✭✭
    Re: TOU metering new E-6 rate, PG&E

    Well, I went with the E-6, knowing full well that the E-1 would be cheaper in the long haul (unless we start using a lot more electricity, or rates go up). I'm committed for a year, and look at it this way: I'm renting the meter for a year so that I can track our usage patterns.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: TOU metering new E-6 rate, PG&E

    Here in So Calif, Edison has extended the Time of Use metering to 7PM, That's really going to hit us solar generators hard, losing that hour from 6pm, which will have us consuming for an extra hour. I don't know if the existing costumers will get to keep their existing plans.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,722 admin
    Re: TOU metering new E-6 rate, PG&E

    PG&E (Northern California) has not changed mine, yet...

    http://www.pge.com/tariffs/pdf/E-7.pdf

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • RoderickRoderick Solar Expert Posts: 253 ✭✭
    Re: TOU metering new E-6 rate, PG&E
    mike90045 wrote:
    Here in So Calif, Edison has extended the Time of Use metering to 7PM,  That's really going to hit us solar generators hard, losing that hour from 6pm, which will have us consuming for an extra hour.  I don't know if the existing costumers will get to keep their existing plans.

    I'm not sure I exactly understand, but that could be good in the summer.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,722 admin
    Re: TOU metering new E-6 rate, PG&E

    Generally, you want to generate (net to the utility) during the high $/kWhr ($0.29 peak summer rate, $0.12 per / kWhr peak winter rate) (when the sun is shining) and when you are consuming, you want to pay the low price ($0.09 per kWhr off peak, roughly year round)... Generally, for me, I don't really generate that much power after 5pm--so having peak rates until 7pm is when I start cooking and such.

    My E7 is between noon and 6pm, Mon-Fri. Everything else is off peak.

    The E6 rates for us are much more complex and spread out in time and includes weekends. And partial peak is through 9pm at night:

    http://www.pge.com/tariffs/pdf/E-6.pdf

    TIME PERIODS: Times of the year and times of the day are defined as follows:

    Summer (service from May 1 through October 31):
    Peak: 1:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m Monday through Friday
    Partial-Peak: 10:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.
    AND 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. Monday through Friday
    Plus 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Saturday and Sunday
    Off-Peak: All other times including Holidays.

    Winter (service from November 1 through April 30):

    Partial-Peak: 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Monday through Friday
    Off-Peak: All other times including Holidays.
    Holidays: “Holidays” for the purposes of this rate schedule are New Year’s
    Day, President’s Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor
    Day, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Christmas Day. The
    dates will be those on which the holidays are legally observed.

    And the power pricing is not as wide either. It runs from $0.20 to ~$0.12 and down to $0.09 per kWhr (Peak, part peak, off-peak).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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