newbie wants info please

encoreman

Hi all, I am looking for a good book that will supply me the info needed to put together an off grid system for my cabin and one for my workshop. I am wanting to power a refridgerator and some lights for cabin and lights and ability to recharge cordless tool batteries in shop. This is for times when power is out or if the SHTF. Any and all info is appreciated. I have looked at some kits, but think I can DIY and save some $$$. Thanks Mac in N. Tennessee

BB.

Re: newbie wants info please

In general, from the Working FAQ thread:

http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?5556-Working-Thread-for-Solar-Beginner-Post-FAQ

Regarding Solar Books:

What's a Good Beginners Book?

From the above thread:

FL SUN wrote: »

This is a link to a PV textbook I find very informative. It was a requirement for the FL contractor's exam I took last month. It even has a very good interactive CD with a bunch of informative extras. A quick search on-line shows this book goes for about $75.00 USD everywhere.

Don't forget nothing compares to OJT when it comes to installation. It's always best to apply in the field what you've learned from a good textbook first.
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?show=HARDCVR W/COMP MEDIA:NEW:9780826912879:75.00

TnAndy wrote: »

Rick,

Here a good "textbook" on solar......it actually IS a textbook for some solar courses, and is set up that way with practice questions at the end of each chapter, but it's also a good self guide as to the basics of components and how they mesh together to make a system. Worth the money, IMHO.

Solar Book Here

Some information on NEC and how it applies to solar power:

PV and the 2005 NEC -- Reference Document

And, of course, the NEC Code Book (current edition or version that is used by your locality).

-Bill

PS: Our host also has a Book they recommend:

Book - The New Solar Electric Home

PPS: From another poster:

KeithWHare wrote: »

I recommend "Photovoltaics: Design and Installation Manual" from Solar Energy International. This does a pretty decent job of explaining everything except for battery banks.

Keith

PPPS: From another website, I saw this Boatowner's Illustrated Electrical Handbook recommended.

PPPPS:

rollandelliott wrote: »

according to wikipedia once it is adopted into law by a particular govt agency it becomes public knowledge

http://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/ga_electric.pdf

is one link

there are many more specific to certain states/cities here

http://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/

May 26th, 2013:

ChrisOlson wrote: »

I always recommend Hugh's recipe book
http://scoraigwind.com/axialplans/index.htm

It has the "plans" on how to build six different turbines. But Hugh also goes into the theory in explaining why the turbines are built the way they are, and it's written by a master that has spent most of his life working with wind power.

I don't know about the Otherpower book - I have only read excerpts of it and never the whole thing.
--
Chris

June 30th, 2013:

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Ed Lenz's website is probably the best resource for building a small microturbine. Ed has articles on there covering three-phase basics, along with several small windpower projects he has done, etc.
http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/

--
Chris

July 19th, 2013:

Panamretiree wrote: »

A good manual on boat electrics is: Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual: How to Maintain, Repair, and Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems by Nigel Calder. Goes through all issues that you can be confronted with, including solar, wind and hydro power. Has considerable information on grounding and bonding in a boat. Approximately $36.00 on Amazon.com.

Cheers

Specifically, we always like to start from loads... Use a Kill-a-Watt type meter to measure your individual loads to size the battery bank (and solar array based on where your installation will be located).

And conservation will be your friend... More or less as a starting point for sizing an off grid system:

~1 kWH per day, good sized cabin system for lights, laptop computer, small water pump, etc...
~3.3 kWH per day, add a full size energy start refrigerator, well pump, clothes washing machine (near normal, very energy efficient home)
~10 kWH per day, very efficient home with central heat, teen age kids, couple of refrigerators, etc.
~33 kWH per day, typical north American home (no AC/no electric hot water/space heating).
~100 kWH per day, full electric home with AC in Texas and Florida...

The first system is "cheap and small".
The second system is not too expensive and can give you a pretty near normal modern electric life (albeit with lots of conservation/turning unused loads, etc.).

Both are great DIY type systems. Call it ~$10,000 for the 1kWH system and ~$33,000 for the 3.3 kWH per day system (just very rough numbers to set expectations).

In general, figure that off grid power (if used 9+ months of the year) will cost you ~$1-$2+ per kWH (20 year life, several sets of batteries, at least one replacement of charge controller/ac inverter/etc. electronics).

Problem with solar "back up power systems"--Is they cost money even if not used (batteries still go bad, electronics still age). If you are looking for less than ~2 weeks of backup power--A generator + emergency fuel is usually more cost effective... If you are looking for >2 months of backup power (and/or have multiple major power failures a year)--Solar can be a big (and expensive) help.

10+kWH per day, serious money and getting to be a bit large for a first time off gridder with no major electrical experience.

-Bill

zoneblue

Re: newbie wants info please

Welcome to the forum. The good book you seek is right here before you. Hang around here for a month or two and youll be an expert in no time.

Brush up on your ohms law, and start with your load budget as bill said. You need to get it real tight else youll be wasting money.

encoreman

Re: newbie wants info please

Thanks for the replies, I consider serious money much under $30,000 though.

BB.

Re: newbie wants info please

Again, these are rough costs so you can start your own research/paper designs...

Reliable off grid power is not, and as it looks now, will never be cheap... It is just less (sometimes) less expensive/less work than many of the other options (i.e., running a genset 24 hours per day; spending $30,000 for poles plus a $100 monthly power bill/fixed service fees).

Conservation is always going to be a key part of any off grid energy plan (and is becoming more important for us on-grid folks).

When power is/was $0.10-$0.20 per kWH--One can be pretty cavalier about the appliances we buy and how long we leave the lights on when nobody is in the room...

For off grid power, when you are looking at $0.50/$1/$2+ per kWH--Each electric appliance we choose to operate becomes much more of a cost/benefit study.

That old refrigerator that uses 2kWH per day may be $6-$12 per month on the power bill... That same refrigerator running off grid is now $60-$120+ per month--And around 10 years of monthly bills was paid up front for the equipment (i.e., a 3.3 kWH per day system costing ~$33,000 +/- plus new batteries ever X/XY years, etc.).

Getting a new refrigerator that uses 1kWH per day could save you the (rough) equivalent of $30-$60 per month in power bills... Using a 30 Watt laptop (0.3 to 0.72 kWH per day) vs a 200 watt desktop computer (~2-4.8 kWH per 10-24 hour use day), etc...

The more people conserve (and install GT inverters)--You are going to see changes in how power companies bill... Today, I pay a ~$4.50 per month connection/billing fee and $0.09 to $0.50 or so per kWH (depending on season/time of day/amount of power I use).

There are power companies that are addressing "loss of revenue" that are changing to a $40-$96+ per month connection fee and $0.06 per kWH... Now, conservation and energy use, again, becomes disconnected for the much of the month power bill (those that use lot of kWH for heating and cooling will still have good size bills and some incentive to conserve).

We already had a least one person with a seasonal cabin disconnect his AC utility power... The fixed $40-$50 per month power bill, even when the cabin was unused, was becoming more expensive that a small off grid solar power system+small genset to supply lighting and small appliance power for the X months per year that it was used.

You really need to look at your power needs--If you can live with a single or pair of refrigerator/freezers and just lights, laptop, clothes washer, well pump for home water use--And perhaps a genset to run the shop tools when needed--Off grid power may be a competitive answer for your electric needs.

If you will use lots of power (lots being more than ~100 kWH per month), utility power is going to be of similar expense (it sounds like).

And if you plan on using the US/North American power average of 1,000 kWH per month--Then utility power (or a trust fund) will probably be your only cost effective answer.

While I encorage you to look at off grid power (do a few paper designs)--I believe that having grid power will be easier/less expensive in the long term. Also, I believe that if/when you (or your kids) sell the property in the decades to come--They will find the property has more value because of the already utility connected power (Off Grid power systems generally are not worth very much to a new buyer, from what little I have seen... Batteries are already dead, equipment is typically 10+ years old and out of date, genset is leaking oil and regulations require a new double wall fuel tank and fuel costs have continued to rise, etc.).

I do not conserve because I am green, I conserve because I am cheap (I don't believe in polluting our environment either--And conservation is also very green).

-Bill