Pumping from a lake

SystemSystem Posts: 2,511 admin
Hi all, I am designing a system that will draw water from a nearby lake that is 400' away with about a 15' drop. My plan now is to use two SureFlow 2088s - one to push water up from the lake into a holding vessel, and then a second one to run a 80 gallon pressure tank drawing from that vessel. The holding vessel would be controlled with a float switch. This water is not for drinking, and the maximum usage will be about 120 gallons/day, but normally much less.

My question is - is this redundant? My thinking is that running one 2088 that distance and at pressure would make it explode, give low pressure, and require higher quality hose which is much more expensive.

Comments

  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Pumping from a lake

    Confused here,

    Are you 15' BELOW the lake or 15' above the lake? If you are below your golden! Clarify please, also how much water will you use in an average day? Year round, freeze protection?

    Tony
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Pumping from a lake

    opps, guess thats not clear. 15 foot drop to the lake. Aka up-hill. ;)

    Aprox. 100 Gallons pr Day, 4-5 warm (no freeze) months of the year.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Pumping from a lake
    thentro wrote: »
    opps, guess thats not clear. 15 foot drop to the lake. Aka up-hill. ;)

    Aprox. 100 Gallons pr Day, 4-5 warm (no freeze) months of the year.

    That's going to be real easy. In fact, you are going to get lots more, say 1 gpm.
    2 panels, 2 pumps, 2 linear voltage boosters. No batteries needed.

    Have you thought about a "water tower" and forget the pressure tank ? 20' elevation will give you usable water pressure. For the 400' run, use 3/4" pipe, maybe even 1/2" that will help move sediment along (fast flow speed) and the first tank will collect a lot of lake crud, rather than jamming the pipe up.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

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    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Pumping from a lake

    Started a new thread about the entire project over here but to follow up on this -

    There are lots of rules on the land we are on (leased, federal) as it is adjacent to some marvelous wilderness so no towers, and no solar 100ft or less from the lake. So the solar is going to be on the building, 400ft away. Thus I think I have to use an AC SureFlo for that one, is that correct? Or else find some massive copper wire.

    The plan would be to have sediment filters in the line to remove lake gunk, and then just have hose for the 400'. Partially because it will have to make its way around lots of trees and partially because it is lots cheaper.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Pumping from a lake

    You could consider a shureflo 9300 submersible. It runs on either 24 or 12 vdc. It draws 3.2 amps @ 24vdc, and 2.9 amps @ 12vdc and pumps slower. You could use a current booster if you have to to run it on 24vdc. 400' with #10 pump wire is not unheard of. If you put 24vdc in one end, you might end up with ~12vdc at the other end. (Use the voltage drop calculator in the sticky section) It will pump ~60 gph into 50 psi. faster into less pressure. That way you could use a standard p-tank, or series of p-tanks.

    tony
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Pumping from a lake

    Wouldn't using the resistance in the wire cause a lot of heat? It would need to lose 2% every 12 ft for it to go from 24v to 12v.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Pumping from a lake
    thentro wrote: »
    Wouldn't using the resistance in the wire cause a lot of heat? It would need to lose 2% every 12 ft for it to go from 24v to 12v.

    Spread over that distance, you will never feel it.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Pumping from a lake

    Ok thats good. No forest fires thanks to the water pump thank you :D

    The tank is about 100 gallons, so add on the 85 in the pressure tank and there is 185 gallons to use if you ran it dry.

    I guess the last question for this is what uses energy the best for the lest amount of money? The AC version of the SureFlo will use 361 watts/week while the DC pump will use 270 watts/week if it were right next to the batteries. But if I put a linear current booster on the line, and send it down to the lake on regular wire, wont I lose just as much power as the AC version while costing more?
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Pumping from a lake

    You have to figure inverter efficiencies, as well as line loss on the ac line.

    Say the ac unit uses 380 watt/hours net. (adding in inverter losses etc. guess?)

    The dc unit uses ~325 net, figuring 20% line loss,, sounds like the dc unit is a better bet,,,but do your own math to see for sure. Also calculate the cost of the inverter, pumps, current booster etc to see what really makes sense.

    Consider scoring some larger gauge wire for the bulk of the run. Perhaps you could find some #4 or # 6 surplus, or you could simply double up the pump wire to reduce loses.

    Tony
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Pumping from a lake

    Another cheaper option would be to use a gasoline pump for a few minutes a day to fill the gravity tank, and then use a simple sureflo to pressurize your system. I used such a system for years and we burned ~1 gallon a month to fill the water tank. Way cheaper, at least in the short run.

    Tony
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,182 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Pumping from a lake

    Following up on Tony's idea about using a gas pump, eg, the annual Honda water pump sale is now on.( Not recommending the specific brand).

    I was just in getting some oil and they are selling water pumps for ~ $300 Cdn
    Even though we are in the 'middle ' of summer the dealers are getting ready for the fall/ winter sales and reducing inventory.

    there are some good off season buys to be had right now.

    If you have access to a 45 gal plastic drum (2 bungs) you can have a vessel to hold at least a days water hang it high and use the cheapest "camper stlye' pump to pressurize it.

    cheers

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
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