Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

Hi, can someone tell me opinion about this 125 Watt solar panel ?

Specifications:
Cell: nano high output bridged silicon solar cells 25 x 175mm
No. of cells and connections: 171
Dimension of module: 39.50" x 39.01" x 3.0"
Weight 30.1 lbs.

Characteristics
Open circuit voltage (Voc )137.2.v
Optimum operating voltage (Vmp): 110.8v

Optimum operating current (Imp): 7.48a
Maximum power at STC (Pm): 125Wp
Maximum Series Fuse Rating: 10a

Limits
Operating temperature: -40 to +85 C
Maximum system voltage: 900VDC

Temperature and Coefficients
Nominal Operation Cell Temperature (NOCT): 48 C +- 2 C
Current temperature coefficient %/K: 0.06 +- 0.01
Voltage temperature coefficient mV/K: -(170 +- 10)
Power temperature coefficient %/K: -(0.5 +- 0.05)

Output
Type of output terminal: MC3 Connector for solar panel
Cable: A.I.W. (4.0 mm sq.)
Asymmetrical lengths: 1200mm(-) and 800mm(+)
Connection: MC PV

Performance
47% Black surface cell efficiency
32% Practical cell efficiency
54% total max bridged module efficiency
High power tolerance (+- 5%)

Nominal 105 V

Built for long service life
Cells embedded in EVA Nano Silicon (ethylene vinyl acetate)
Lamination glass face
Weather and waterproof
High strength aerospace grade T6 frame

Simple installation flat mount rated
Polarized multi-contact DC-rated waterproof connectors
Hard anodized aluminum frame

High quality standards
Optical, mechanical and electrical module testing during and post-production

Warranties
20 year product warranty
20 year warranty on 90% of the minimum output
20 year warranty on 80% of the minimum output

Certifications
IEC, ETL PTSLC54RE (high voltage solar panel) F5 fire rating ISO 9001 (US modules),
TUV (European Modules), CE, CEC (US modules)


I appreciate it all opinion. Its possible so high efficiency? 32% practical and 54% peek? How important is voltage? its much higher than other PV panels?

What is the best solar panel on the market now?
«1

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    If this is the "EcoStar" panel... I would guess that these are pretty close to just being a scam...

    http://solarenergysw.com/about_us/panels.html
    http://www.ecostarsolar.com/tripanels.html

    Just looking at the size of the panel:
    Dimension of module: 39.50" x 39.01" x 3.0"

    That is about a 1 meter square surface... And we get, roughly 1 kW per square meter with full summer sun...

    125wpersqmtr/1,000wpersqmtr=12.5% efficiency...

    Comparing against a BP 4175 panel (know it's real--they are on my home):

    175 watt * 144sqinperfoot / (62.8”x31.1”) = 12.9 watts / sq foot
    125 watt * 144 / (39.5*39.1) = 11.65 watts / sq foot...

    So--whatever their specifications mean--they are not any better (or possibly slightly worse) than a standard (good quality) mono-crystalline solar panel...

    And, we have already looked at the EcoStar solar charge controller before... Not good (scam).

    And on the same EcoStar page is a link to one of their other charge controllers:

    http://www.ecostarsolar.com/ecostar_mppt_high_voltage_h.html

    Which looks an awful lot alike the "BZ" solar charge controller that has been discussed here before...

    Unless there is some other reliable source of these panels and supporting information--I would stay away from them.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Thank you for your answer, first of all i just want to say sorry about my english, not my general language and im beginner in solar systems.

    Yes the panel is from Ecostar, they are the manufacturers of this panel, but i have few questions about...

    - physical on the panel is : Vmp x Imp = Watt in case of this panel is Vmp 110.8 Volt x Imp 7.48 a = 828,78 Watt, but panel has only 125 Watt ??? Why is voltage so high? and output only 125 watt?

    - in their specification is - cells are nano-silicon - this is not usual

    - their warranty is pretty high 20 years for everything

    - also find this - take a minute and read pls http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/889/

    They are saying in this article its possible....so i really dont know what to think about ....if this is true ...and if their panel is really so good seems like its small revolution on the market with this efficiency?

    So please let me know what you think about and also what you can recommend as a top quality product on market - prefer performance and price

    ALL opinions are welcome and if you can explain everything in your opinion will make me happy
    thanks
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    NitRam,

    Not a problem--my English is not much better--and it is my only language. ;)

    If this is the same ECOStar I linked in our other discussions--what they print on their specifications is pretty much worthless trash.

    It may be a perfectly good 125 watt amorphous panel--but when connected with these guys--I would need a whole bunch of other proof that anything they are selling is worth the price of postage. Their solar charge controllers were out and out scams. If they are using/selling the BZ controller now--then they are selling junk.

    Pretty much any brand listed here is going to be fine for you. I would suggest that you stick with mono or poly crystalline solar panels.

    There are other panel types (like UniSolar) which can be better for special applications (like a little bit of resistance to rocks)--but for life, efficency, and most power for the dollar--go with crystalline silicon under glass with aluminum frames.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Well, im going to see this company after two weeks, and probably I will buy 2 panels for testing, so will have more information soon.

    Its just sounds pretty interesting for me and i want to know as much information as i can get.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    NitRaM,

    Make sure that you don't pay anymore per watt ($/watt) than you can get from other dealers... In the end, solar panels are pretty much commodity product (good and bad product)--and you should research and pay accordingly.

    And--to any extent possible, get confirming information and bring a DVM to test and make sure that it meets your expected output (Voc, Isc, 125 watts +/- or 828 watts +/- under load--if possible)...

    In general, amorphous solar panels (which these seem to be--no matter the "nano-silicon" stuff) appear to have a "steep burn-in curve"... Amorphous product are known to loose as much as 20% of their power in their first 6 months of sun exposure (may stabilize at this level for balance of life--silicon panels are rated for a maxim 3% drop during initial use, and, guaranteed 20% for balance of life).

    Again, I don't claim to know anything about these panels or the seller--other than what I have already posted here--based on links and discussions we have already had.

    But, this is very much a case of "buyer beware" when purchasing from this vendor.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    And if the vendor closes shop in 3 years, and is out of business, your 20 year warrenty is good for lighting your steam engine.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    You might also ask them if the panels are qualified for California's rebate program...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    mike90045: I think in this time, this risk of "closed shop" is almost same for every product with 20 years warranty, somewhere is the risk higher and somewhere lower, it is long time and who can guarantee whats gonna be after 20 years?? 20 years ago i was young kid but we didnt had color TV, computer ...etc and almost didnt know anything about.... Everything around growing up to fast, so it can happen you will trow it out your PV panels after 10 years because will be old junk and nobody will care about some warranty. But thanks for your opinion

    BB: About the California rebate program, I already ask them so will see.. and im going to pay them about 3,90/Watt, this will pay my company so i dont care so much about two panels for testing, but nobody know much about this panels and anyone want trust them, only way is try it and will see whats happen. I dont believe them also and thats why i post it here to hear some opinion from somebody experienced and until now nobody explain me how it work, count etc...
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    NitRam,

    Sounds like a very reasonable plan...

    But, regarding the panels--you certainly want to design the system, mounts, wiring, spec. equipment, etc. for a very long life (~25+ years)... And since panels are about 1/2 the cost of a grid tied system--you need to be confident they will last; as this is a very key way to get the $$$ per kWhr costs down--a very long life for your capital equipment (if this, eventually, would be for a fixed installation requiring long life).

    You said you have some other questions? Perhaps about how Voc, Vmp, Imp, Isc, temperature coefficients, etc. work?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    I know, it has to be for long term, but i said that only in the meaning who knows whats gonna be after 20 years, but cant think like that now, this response was only because his argument for closing the shop....
    Anyway i saw couple solar panels made in China 5-6 years ago....and the glass face was frosting, matting and power output was about 50 % ......

    What you mean with this?
    And since panels are about 1/2 the cost of a grid tied system-

    And i dont understand this one
    Vmp x Imp = Watt in case of this panel is Vmp 110.8 Volt x Imp 7.48 a = 828,78 Watt, but panel has only 125 Watt ??? Why is voltage so high? and output only 125 watt?

    Do I understand right the efficiency when this 125 Watt panel with 32% efficiency produce more power (watts) like for sample your BP 4175 with 15-16% efficiency? Efficiency double the output power. right? (not talking if its true or not only the numbers) I just spoke with some guy ...and he told me efficiency is not important.....

    Im trying to read, search etc to understand but sometimes is really hard and shortcuts make me troubles :)
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    NitRaM,

    Very roughly, in the US right now, solar panels retail for about $5.00 per watt... And a Grid Tied solar power system is around $8-$10 per watt installed (depending on local costs, where installed, permits, etc.)... So, solar panels are very expensive (1/2, or more, of the total installed system price) and you want them to last a long time (which you know).
    Vmp 110.8 Volt x Imp 7.48 a = 828,78 Watt
    It is meaningless marketing garbage... Your are correct, it does not make sense.

    What would make a little more sense:

    125 watts / 110.8 volts = 1.28 amps (Imp)

    Or, perhaps:

    125 watts / 7.48 amps = 16.7 (Vmp)

    A bit closer to a standard panel rating ("12 volt" panel).

    There are ratings for panels regarding how large a current they can be "exposed too" (several panels in parallel). 7.48 amps could indicate that a person would put a 7amp fuse in series with the panel to protect against internal shorts (and a marketing person thought that was the Imp rating instead of the series fuse rating). You don't want a panel catching on fire if it gets and internal short (feed by other parallel panel strings).

    In any case--the current specifications don't make any sense.

    Regarding efficiency--in some respects, collector efficiency does not matter if you are simply paying $/watt...

    However, efficiency matters for other reasons--

    1. If you have a limited space (such as your roof) to mount panels--you can get more power from the same square footage/meter.

    2. You have other fixed costs, such as for mounting your panels (racks). If your panels are 8% efficient vs 16% efficient--you will need, roughly, twice as much steel rack, concrete, etc. to hold the panels...

    So, in the US if you assume racks are roughly $1.00 per watt for a standard 16% efficient panel, then you would need $2.00 per watt of racks for the less efficient panel (twice as many physical panels for the same power output)--so, you would want to pay $1.00 per watt less for your inefficient panels just to make up the extra racking costs.

    May not hurt you for small systems--but when installing a large system--the extra costs can be significant (may need more connectors, cabling and other costs too with less efficient panels).

    The non-glass, non-crystalline solar panels (i.e., flexible amorphous silicon) can easily have 1/2 the solar efficiency of the Mono/Poly Crystalline Silicon glass mounted panels.

    Make sense?

    By the way NitRaM, where do you live/plan on doing the solar thing?

    -Bill

    Oops--series fuse rating is given:

    Maximum Series Fuse Rating: 10a

    Never mind...
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency
    What would make a little more sense:

    125 watts / 110.8 volts = 1.28 amps (Imp)

    Or, perhaps:

    125 watts / 7.48 amps = 16.7 (Vmp)

    but their Imp is - 7.48a and Vmp is 110,8v .........

    About the efficiency...
    collector efficiency does not matter if you are simply paying $/watt...
    but you are paying $/Watt for STC, so if you have 175Watt panel with 16% efficiency and same panel 175 Watt panel with 32% efficiency for the same price $4/Watt, in final you have twice more output power with higher efficiency panel, so its same like you will buy two 175 panels with 16% efficiency . thats mean for same output power you paid 8$/watt instead of 4dollars with 32 % efficiency panel. do am i right? Other things as space and racks i know.

    I am form Czech republic, Europe, my boss wants a build a 1MW power plantation there...but we are at the beginning of the project, but currently have potential buyer for about other MW. But currently im in Florida now.
    Martin
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    NitRam,

    Again, one or more of the Vmp/Imp/Isc numbers are not real--just made up by somebody that has no clue what is happening. Trying to figure them out is pointless from their website until they are corrected. You have no idea which ones are correct and which are incorrect.

    This is why it is difficult to do business with people that don't know what they are doing. How can you build a system with their components if you don't know the parameters or if they meet safety requirements for your country (UL/NRTL, IEC, CE, etc.).

    Regarding efficiency--perhaps we have some confusion here...

    Solar Efficiency is the panel's ability to collect "light" from the sun and convert it into electric power.

    Roughly, at high noon there is 1,000 Watts (1kW) per square meter. So, if you have a 16% efficient 1 meter square solar panel, you will get 160 watts from that panel.

    If you have an 8% efficient 1 square meter panel--you will only get 80 watts from it.

    So, if you are paying $5 per watt--a 1 square meter 16% efficient panel will output (1,000 watts/sq meter of sunlight * 16% = ) 160 watts for ($5/watt * 160 watts = ) $800.

    A 1 square meter 8% panel will output 80 watts for $400.

    If you need 160 watts, you will need 2x square meters of 8% panel for 160 watts and still pay, approximately $800 (assuming you are paying $5/watt retail pricing for both types of panels).

    Or another way of saying it--A 100 watt 16% efficient panel will output the exact same amount of power as a 100 watt 8% efficient panel--but the 100 watt 16% efficient panel will be 1/2 the area of the 100 watt 8% panel... So, if panel area and mounting rack costs are important, a 16% efficient panel will be worth slightly more to you vs the 8% panel (because the larger, less efficient, panels need twice the area and mounting rack hardware).

    Does that help?

    NitRaM, are you an engineer or business person? For a large installation like this--you will need proper electrical, mechanical, and power engineering support to ensure a successful (and safe) installation.

    And if this is your first trip down the solar road--getting even a day with a knowledgeable engineer with solar experience (on large installs) to help you understand the system and work up a financial model for your decision process.

    And welcome to the US... Enjoying Florida?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    I know its hard to do business with somebody like me, but thats the point why I am here and im not building system with their product now, i was looking for something what will fit my boss requirements and find their product, and then i post this thread here to know what other think about that and learn somethings. Regarding the safety requirements, if they have TUV (german) certification as is on their website, should not be problem in czech.

    about the efficiency...im not sure .....
    So, if you are paying $5 per watt--a 1 square meter 16% efficient panel will output (1,000 watts/sq meter of sunlight * 16% = ) 160 watts for ($5/watt * 160 watts = ) $800.
    you are not paying $5/watt for output power....?

    sample: when i have 3x125 watts panels with 32%efficency (3sq.m.) - as you said - 1,000 watts/sq meter of sunlight * 32% = 320 watts x 3 panels is 960 watts output
    and 2x 190watts panels with 16%efficiency (usually 3sq.m.) - 1,000 watts/sq meter of sunlight * 16% = 160 watts x 2 panels is 320W + 0,5sq.m. of each is another 160 W - total is 480 watts output.
    if you pay $5/watt , so its $625 each panel x 3 - 1875USD total for 960 W total output and than is $950 each panel x 2 - 1900 USD total for 480W total output.
    So thats mean I need 2 more 190W panels to get the same output power and i pay 1900 usd more and need more space, and will spend more on racks etc.

    Everybody count the efficiency 1000 W/Sq. meter * effciency, but what about the STC number of the panel .... its doesnt matter if its 125 watt or 210??

    I know i look like an idiot here ...but i need to start and get of the bottom somehow.

    Im going to Intersolar exhibition in San Francisco so i hope I will know much more after the fair.

    Bill, yeah i enjoy the Florida, weather is great here, but CA is nice too, just little bit more expensive like FL:) and about me im not engineer, maybe business person ....will see if i can finish this one :D Its just hard to start, and usually you cant say no I can not do it boss.....
    Electrical, mechanical, and power engineering support will not be a problem, but you have to be careful In Europe, specially in czech, with your project or somebody else may take you down before you start......it much more competitive like here. Martin
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Martin,

    Forget efficiency for the moment.... If you have a panel rated at 125 watts STC (Standard Test Conditions)--that is how much power it will output--125 watts... You do not multiply the 125 watts * Efficiency----

    So, every 125 watt panel, whether 1%, 8%, 16% or 32% efficient will output 125 watts at high noon under STC conditions.

    Now, there is probably no solar photo voltaic panel (electric) that you would install that will be much more than 16-20% maximum efficiency--they just are not available. If you have somebody telling you their PV electric solar panel is 32% efficient and $3.90 per watt--run away...

    You can get more efficient panels--but they are used in space where size and weight is of paramount importance. and paying 10x as much for space gear does not bother anyone.

    This stuff:
    47% Black surface cell efficiency
    32% Practical cell efficiency
    54% total max bridged module efficiency

    It may mean something to somebody--but it is nothing that I have seen in common commercial specifications for solar electric panels. The people you are dealing with are just throwing anything they can find that sounds "technical" at the "wall" and seeing what "sticks". Scratch 32% efficiency (and 47/54%) from your mind... They are meaningless for our discussions here.

    What efficiency of a PV panel does--a less efficient panel is larger for the same power output (more square meters), versus a more efficient solar panel (which will be smaller). Both will output exactly the same amount of power.

    If you want 40% efficient cells--Gallium based cells used in space have been test built for ground based solar systems. But, I would guess these guys are not cheap.

    In the end, there are many costs associated with installing solar panels... There is the cost of the panel, the cost of racking, the cost of connections, wiring, etc... So while you can make exactly the same system out of 1,000 x 100 watt panels or 500 x 200 watt panels--the fact that you have handled 1/2 the number of panels, connections, wiring issues, etc. may make the installation cost less, even though the smaller panels may cost a bit less.

    The reason that everyone makes a big deal about solar panel efficiency (~12%-20% range of efficiency for standard PV panels)--is because many home installations don't have a lot of space--so a homeowner may pay slightly more money for a "more efficient panel" so they can get the most power out of their roof top installation.

    So, the solar panel company can charge a bit more for their 200 watt panel because it is slightly smaller than another company's 200 watt panel.

    Solar panels are just "sun powered batteries"... And there are various ways of rating them (just like any battery). STC (Standard Test Conditions) is a condition that all panels are rated for (so you can compare their outputs). Under the same sun, same wind, same temperature--all the 125 watt panels will output 125 watts. However, because, like batteries, there are different ways of making the panels--some will have higher voltages and others lower voltages...

    The formula for power is P=I*V (Power=Voltage * Current).... So you can have a 125 watt panel with a Vmp=12.5 volts then Imp=P/V=125w/12.5v=10amps. Or you can have a 125 watt panel with Vmp=25v, then Imp=P/V=125w/25v=5amps...

    Both of the above 125 watt panels will output the same power, but at different Voltage/Current ratings... None of the ratings will change if we took efficiency (12-20%) into account.

    Again, if you are dealing with EcoStar Solar--be really careful--at least on their website and products, they list totally fake information. And if you try to understand this fake information--you will just end up totally confused--or worst, make faulty decisions.

    Perhaps Solar Guppy can recommend a reliable distributor/engineering/sales firm in your area that can help you.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    nitram,
    it's great that you show this interest for your boss, but the bottom line is a businessman isn't going to be an expert on solar overnight. listen to what bb said as you will not get 32% efficiency from that pv and the so-called facts do not add up so they are not factual. it is an overly hyped pv that some businessmen are trying to cash in on from as many suckers as they can and that should be understood by you. until you gain enough knowledge on the subject you could be setting yourself up as one of those suckers. no amount of wishful thinking or arguing with bb or anybody else here is going to change anything to be different concerning that pv. please do not continue to push this pv as something it's not.
    if your boss wants you to do this for him then you'd better tell him to pay for some education for you in a hurry otherwise he'd better get somebody in the field of solar to do this for him. if you do this for him and get it wrong (assuming you are being truthful with us) then you could get fired.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Thanks guys,

    I really appreciate it all you said here. About the ecostar solar panel, I just found their panel on websites and then few articles : 1. article, 2.article, 3.article etc..
    so after what i read this articles as a beginner i thought its possible, and its only somethings new. But because of when i spoke with somebody, nobody believe and everybody said its not possible, i post the thread here, to get some information, comments and opinions from someone experienced. Thats mean, Im not prefer them, pushing them, im not doing any kind of business with them, I just gave them chance and as i said i will meet those people, buy couple panels and test the panels really good. (already have a PV manufacturer for full testing in their factory) For sure i will post results here.
    Actually I was confused a lot for last few days, and I dont want to become a solar expert overnight ;) I just think every businessman need to know how things are, work etc. if he want to do a good job but this is OT...
    Anyway... thank you again for your comments.
    Martin
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Martin,

    I understand... We just want to make sure you have a good understanding of the basics and don't let a sales person tell you things that are not true.

    And, while new technologies are always very nice to read about--it can take years or decades to bring some "bleeding edge" technologies to production.

    For example, from your article #2:
    16 August 2007

    ...The nano-crystals could prove much easier to produce than high efficiency mono-crystalline solar panels, and they will contain no toxic substances, unlike other materials that have shown these 'multi-electron' properties.

    However, this is of course still in the development stage. While the electrons are being produced, it's turning out to be somewhat difficult to actually extract the electrons from the nano-crystals. In fact, the extra electrons have yet to be measured as an electrical current, but through more indirect means like spectroscopy. But the researchers are working on several designs for panels that might be able to harvest the electrons...
    While it is possible that somebody has already turned this into a shipping product--I kind of doubt it.

    In the end, no mater how "high-tech" something may sound--in the end for the typical customer it is Power, Reliability, and Cost that will be important.

    If they cannot give you a competitive and reliable product--then it is not worth anything to you--no matter the claimed superiority of their product.

    Good Luck and have fun!
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Bill,

    I too have been working on a new solar panel that will be cheap as dirt. It is made of dirt. The only problem I have had is actually extracting the electrons from the dirt. But when I finish my research on nano-dirt, I plan to cover the planet with dirt and become rich.

    - Rob

    P.S. I am thinking of using quantum farmers to harvest the electrons from the nano-dirt. Good idea?
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Sage: Please keep off with this kind of comments unless you have some conviction...
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    NitRaM,

    I'm sorry. It was an attempt at humor. I have a Master's in Solid-State Physics and when somebody says their solar work is going well except for the "harvesting" of electrons, then their product is as useful as dirt. If you can't get electrons out of the solar cell, nothing else matters. Good luck with your MW power plant.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    If you read this thread, you will know im a beginner in solar. All articles i found were almost a year old, technology is fast, so i thought its possible, and thats why i post it here.
    Otherwise I like humor, but it is serious for me, so all useful information are welcome :)
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency
    NitRaM wrote: »
    I know its hard to do business with somebody like me, but thats the point why I am here and im not building system with their product now, i was looking for something what will fit my boss requirements and find their product, and then i post this thread here to know what other think about that and learn somethings.

    Why, because you are not listening to anyone here. nearly everyone has universally warned you against these new panels. You came here asking for advice, and we gave it as honestly as we can, from our own past experience.
    For the last 10 years, "someone" has had a +30% efficient panel. Yet they are never for sale, and they don't last more than a year or so. Nobody is around to honor the warranty.
    Good Luck.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Mike, I understand and I listen really carefully, and i think BB did a really good job and explained really well. My discussion was continuing because i wasnt really sure if the efficiency is even worth something compared with "regular" pv module.
    I appreciate it all infos in this and other threads here cause i need more information about pv modules, solar systems more like never before and dont have so much time for some training.
    Martin
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Just short review after my trip:

    Company Ecostarsolar Solar www.ecostarsolar.com does not exist! They address is only box in UPS store in Pahrump, They are thieves, and I get some information from police dept. and insurance companies, so they already had some illegal issues. Their names Darren and Kelly Pope (you can see them here ) The other company http://solarenergysw.com/ its also their and much more like here etc. They just trying get money from poeple

    Everyone should stay away from this couple .....
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Martin,

    I am sorry that you wasted your time and money on them expecting a "real business"...

    But I am glad you found out before some serious monies where spent.

    And that answers a few of the questions floating around about EcoStar.

    Take care,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Thanks Bill,


    It did not cost me so much, we stop in Las Vegas on our way home from the trade show in SF anyway , so it cost me time for driving 100 miles and gas, and almost speed ticket when cop stop me in middle of nothings :)
    But it was another experience, and I learn a lot abut PV system thru this time and also it brought me here ...so Im glad.

    I just hope nobody will give them money for nothings .....

    Martin
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,514 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    Martin,

    I am glad you did not get the ticket--Tickets have pretty much become just another tax revenue source in the US (around $300 for almost anything)...

    A GPS (satellite navigation device) and cruise control (keep car at set speed) are about the only way to go... Stay below Speed Limit +5 mph, and usually you will be OK (there are some school zones where they post a sign reading "Speed Limit Strictly Enforced"--and apparently they mean it--1 mph over the limit and get ticket--typically photo radar).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency

    I have 7 of these panels, two inverters, one being an inverter/charger w built in automatic power transfer switch, and two charge controllers. All sold to us by darren pope of ecostar, Who started answering the phone as darren paul with ecotech after we bought our second round of bull from him. Not being very informed on the solar front, my boss was inclined and persuaded to spend over 10,000 dollars all total with this scam artist. I have never been so amazed at one of my superiors' ineptitude. Just as some of you are skeptical, i feel he should have checked this out before purchasing. Now we are stuck charging our batteries with a generator, on a project for a very high profile client! I think I have persuaded our higher ups to buy a high kw Zantrac controller. I warn all who see this brand to steer clear. Want another testimony, Look up solar southwest, Call the guy, he is very willing to discuss his follie as well.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Opinion about PV module 125 W with high effciency
    spevco wrote: »
    I have 7 of these panels, two inverters, one being an inverter/charger w built in automatic power transfer switch, and two charge controllers. All sold to us by darren pope of ecostar, Who started answering the phone as darren paul with ecotech after we bought our second round of bull from him. Not being very informed on the solar front, my boss was inclined and persuaded to spend over 10,000 dollars all total with this scam artist. I have never been so amazed at one of my superiors' ineptitude. Just as some of you are skeptical, i feel he should have checked this out before purchasing. Now we are stuck charging our batteries with a generator, on a project for a very high profile client! I think I have persuaded our higher ups to buy a high kw Zantrac controller. I warn all who see this brand to steer clear. Want another testimony, Look up solar southwest, Call the guy, he is very willing to discuss his follie as well.

    I should have done my homework, or found this site first-- it would have saved me over $3000.

    I have discovered that the owner, Darren Pope has been ripping people off for years! This snake oil salesman has sold car engines, ATVs, solar products, and even used police cars. Over the last five years, he has created and dissolved 15 LLC's, changed his phone number over 10 times and has been sued numerous times. Don't take my work for it- Do an online search for "Pahrump Valley Times Darren Pope" for just one example of what this guy has been up to.
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