Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

Out There

My wife is quite anxious about using her Blendtec Classic blender on the Trace 4024 modified sine wave inverter. Anyone have knowledge/experience with this kind of set-up? I'd never hear the end of it if she burnt that puppy up :grr

Blackcherry04

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

You know it's really a hard thing to say. Having had MSW inverters for a long time it depends on the speed controller in the Blender. It might work ok on some speeds and not others. I have had overhead fans that ran fine, but noisy and others that seemed to burn up the capacitors, but again it's hard to nail it down to just MSW issues. I have a old Hamilton Bar blender that has about 6 speeds and it's out lived it's self on MSW. Everything today has a circuit board and that can be a issue.

niel

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

generally, i do not recommend msw on any motorized appliance. the waveform causes excessive power consumption from the harmonic portion of the waveform and that gets dissipated in the form of heat in the appliance. that is not useful power. as was said, some things will tolerate this and some will not with some having a host of gray areas in between. true sine wave inverters will list a total harmonic content being under 5%. above that is considered msw. now if you know your msw inverter has a thd of say 6% then i wouldn't fret about that too much and i'd use it. if your msw inverter does not list the thd then consider it no good as being close enough to be useable without having very thd levels.

waynefromnscanada

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

If the device has a low voltage power supply, like 5, 12 or 24 volts to feed a micro processor control, but does not have a built in "AC adapter (wall wart) type" transformer, then it could well burn up the power supply. If it has such a transformer, it will likely work OK. Been there, done that, saw the smoke.
"Hi end" modern products probably do don't use such transformers any more, they're old fashioned. So - - you'll know if it will smoke on MSW after you try it to see how it reacts. If it's new and still on warranty, and it smokes, take it back. Just don't mention MSW.
Several of my kitchen devices now have two AC cords and plugs each. One plugs into the Morningstar TS-300 supply that's on 24/7 and feeds the electronics, the other supplies the rough, heavy using parts like the heating element in the breadmaker, and is fed from a more powerful inverter that's in power save mode 24/7.
Hey, they work, and it wouldn't matter if the second inverter was MSW.

Cariboocoot

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

We're talking about a $600 blender here. It's rated as 1560 Watts too. It appears to have some complex electronics in it as it says it "automatically speeds up and slows down".

The cost of the blender is similar to the cost of a simple pure sine inverter that would run it.

So, do you want to buy the PSW inverter now or buy it after having to buy a new blender as well?

Out There

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

Cariboocoot wrote: »

So, do you want to buy the PSW inverter now or buy it after having to buy a new blender as well?

Point made and taken! I like waynefromscanada's idea and was already researching the option of a dedicated PSW inverter for the blender, the wife's CPAP and a few other things we may want to use and preserve. Now the question comes: Which PSW inverter?

Out There

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

I just pulled the manual on the Trace 4024. It's specifications indicate Sinewave output "34 to 52 steps per cycle" and THD of "3 to 5%". Further, its voltage regulation is +/-2% and frequency regulation of " +/-0.04% (crystal regulated)". I realize this is a stepped and therefore a modified sine wave. How close am I?

Cariboocoot

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

Pretty darn close: that 3-5% THD is as good as utility power most places.

Really, given the power demands of that blender and the age of the Trace, I'd recommend replacing the whole thing with something more modern if you were to go with a new inverter. Sort of "do it once, do it right, and get it over with".

But with those specs I wouldn't be in such a hurry to replace the inverter.

Out There

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

Cool! The old Trace is a workhorse, that's for sure! (The darn thing is as heavy as a horse, as well!) If I can make things happy with that inverter, I may just stick it out a bit longer.
You think I'm ok, though, huh?

waynefromnscanada

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

Out There wrote: »

Cool! The old Trace is a workhorse, that's for sure! (The darn thing is as heavy as a horse, as well!) If I can make things happy with that inverter, I may just stick it out a bit longer.
You think I'm ok, though, huh?

"Sinewave output "34 to 52 steps per cycle" and THD of "3 to 5%"."
That's very good and should definitely not cause any problems with any sensitive electronics. If it's working well I would keep it, no need to upgrade at this time.

niel

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

if it is that old you still may want to consider a newer one and that old one would still suffice as a backup inverter. (or use the new one as a backup) many of the older ones (>10yrs) may not have parts available to repair them as well.

i'm not trying to scare you into buying as you can wait until this one fails too, but then you have the wait time until delivery and be out of the use of a inverter in the mean time.

mahendra

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

Well i dont think you will want to gamble $600,Its better to invest less than $400 and get a nice xantrex sw 2000 .I have a xantrex and i hi power blender myself ,It runs nicely off the xantrex.

mahendra

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

Oh another thing if the blender is of a good quality and you do manage to get it to work on the msw inverter that does not guarantee it would the next time.A friend of mine learned the hard way like our friend on this forum that mentioned "been there done that saw the smoke".He kept babbling he don not need a psw inverter that i am just wasting my money until he paid the price difference of a psw inverter to a msw inverter in electronics.

mike95490

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

THD of "3 to 5%

That's pretty darn good, very close to sine wave, it would be hard to tell the difference without really looking deeply with an o'scope. That's not a 3 step "square wave" generic automotive inverter.

niel

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

btw, technically all inverters are modified sine wave as they all have steps of square wave forms to one degree or another. generally the more steps taken the closer to sine wave it is and the lower the thd.

the reason for the 5% thd point is, that is what utilities are required to be held within. a small bit over won't hurt things, but keep in mind the more over it is the worse it is for anything inductive and even for other items like some items with chargers can be damaged. your spec is fine imo on your inverter to use without much worry.

Blackcherry04

Re: Expensive blender on modified sine wave?

Here is about the best explanation of all the wave forms I have found. The Trace 4024 was the gold standard in it's day, it had many firsts in the Inverter world. It is a stepped sine wave inverter, but don't let that fool you because you'll never know it. Don't worry about that blender on it.

http://www.homepower.com/ac-output-wave-forms