Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

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BB.
BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
Hmmm... Good news?

Power Grid Down Drill To Be Conducted By US Government

Power grid vulnerabilities are finally garnering some attention by government officials.
An electrical grid joint drill simulation is being planned in the United States, Canada and Mexico. Thousands of utility workers, FBI agents, anti-terrorism experts, governmental agencies, and more than 150 private businesses are involved in the November power grid drill.
The downed power grid simulation will reportedly focus on both physical and cyber attacks. The antiquated electrical system in the United States has been one of the most neglected pieces of integral infrastructure.
The EMP Commission, created by Congress, released a report in 2008 calling for increased planning and testing, and a stockpiling of needed repair items.
The SHIELD Act, which is stalled in Congress, is the first serious piece of legislation in many years to attempt to address the vulnerabilities of the power grid in. As previously reported by Off The Grid News, a recent American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) report gave the power grid a “D+” when grading various pieces of infrastructure and public services in the United States.

I wonder if they "grade on the curve"... I am sure the results will be stored in a very nice file cabinet.

-Bill
Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    BB. wrote: »
    I wonder if they "grade on the curve"... I am sure the results will be stored in a very nice file cabinet.

    -Bill

    I have some pre-tested filing cabinets I can sell them for only $10,000 per drawer ($15,000 for lateral type). :roll:
  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

    It's not even a drill. It's called GridEX II and they had the first one back in 2011. It's a big freaking conference is all it is, where they can get drunk at night and discuss useless scenarios in conference rooms during the day and they play "War Games". They give it military-sounding terms like GridSecCon.

    Basically a big joke and a total waste of time and taxpayer money so a bunch of Big Wigs can go live it up in Florida for a few days.
    --
    Chris
  • solarix
    solarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

    Ever seen the Netflix series called "Revolution" where the grid goes down and doesn't come back on?
    Pretty ridiculous plot line but you never know. Complexity and age are not the friends of reliability.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    It's not even a drill. It's called GridEX II and they had the first one back in 2011. It's a big freaking conference is all it is, where they can get drunk at night and discuss useless scenarios in conference rooms during the day and they play "War Games". They give it military-sounding terms like GridSecCon.

    Basically a big joke and a total waste of time and taxpayer money so a bunch of Big Wigs can go live it up in Florida for a few days.
    --
    Chris

    I do not doubt you Chris--The more I read the article, the more it sounds like a 5 star boondoggle.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    solarix wrote: »
    Complexity and age are not the friends of reliability.

    So that's what's wrong with me! :p:D
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    BB. wrote: »
    I do not doubt you Chris--The more I read the article, the more it sounds like a 5 star boondoggle.

    -Bill

    I'll ask him, but I bet I know 'someone' who wasn't invited - which would prove it isn't legitimate.

    (Bill knows who I'm referring to.)
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    It's a big freaking conference is all it is, where they can get drunk at night and discuss useless scenarios in conference rooms during the day and they play "War Games".

    What a relief! I was worried that something might go wrong and that they'd take down the grid. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    vtmaps wrote: »
    What a relief! I was worried that something might go wrong and that they'd take down the grid

    Wouldn't affect us even if they did. This is the US transmission grid network:

    Attachment not found.

    We live way up there in Northern Wisconsin where there's only two green wires. And nobody knows what they're for :confused:

    --
    Chris
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    We live way up there in Northern Wisconsin where there's only two green wires. And nobody knows what they're for :confused:

    --
    Chris

    They're green so they must be grounds. :p
  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    They're green so they must be grounds. :p

    Well, you see - that's the problem. This area was settled by Scandinavians. We know how to hunt and fish and trap and fell trees and skid logs and saw lumber with off-grid lumbermills. But when it comes to wires, black goes to minus and red goes to plus. And that works with jumper cables and everything. If it's green just sure as shootin' somebody is going hold it up in the air and ask, "just where the %^&* does this go?" :blush:

    --
    Chris
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

    Bill;

    I was right; he hasn't heard of it. Imagine not including the guy who designed most of the grid control systems in NA in something like this.

    I think Chris has it spot-on; an excuse for a booze up while pretending to do something about a real problem.
  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    I think Chris has it spot-on; an excuse for a booze up while pretending to do something about a real problem.

    Well, I tend to go by history a lot because you can learn things from it. So I don't see any reason why this one is going to be all that much different than the last one in 2011.
    --
    Chris
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

    i'll bet those politicians have plenty of backup power so i doubt they give a crap about the grid and what the public will have to deal with.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Well, I tend to go by history a lot because you can learn things from it. So I don't see any reason why this one is going to be all that much different than the last one in 2011.
    --
    Chris

    Someone WILL get drunk, trip over the power cord at the back of the room, and blackout half the country.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

    No, what they do is that NERC calls out outages, then all the "players" who are "affected" announce what they're doing about the outage while NERC then evaluates how bad it is. This goes on for a couple hours until somebody decides to announce "we're screwed on this one - lets take a break and go get a massage at the spa".

    It's three days of playing games for a few hours, and the rest of the time Livin' Large at a big resort/spa/conference center in Jacksonville, FL. You didn't actually think they would hold a conference at like a university, or something? Of course not - they hold these things at posh hotels and resorts.
    --
    Chris
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Wouldn't affect us even if they did. This is the US transmission grid network:

    Attachment not found.

    We live way up there in Northern Wisconsin where there's only two green wires. And nobody knows what they're for :confused:

    --
    Chris


    Looks to me like Chicago and area is an electrical "black hole" (all RED lines). Maybe that is where they should go?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    westbranch wrote: »
    Looks to me like Chicago and area is an electrical "black hole" (all RED lines). Maybe that is where they should go?

    We're not sure because we never go to Chicago. We're used to being in a place where people are not at the top of the food chain because wolves outnumber people 3 to 1. When I go to a city anymore I feel trapped and uncomfortable. Can't hear the sound of the wind blowing thru the trees, no birds singing, the place smells artificial. I look at the people that live there and they remind me of rats trapped in the bottom of a 55 gallon drum. They climbed in because there was some corn in the bottom of it and it looked real good. But now they're scrambling the walls trying to get out but they can't.

    The people that live in Chicago come to where we live and it's almost comical. They camp in a campground in the North Woods here and a bear comes in in the middle of the night and raids their garbage can. So they all scream and run for the car. It's like, what's wrong with these people? If the bear raids your garbage can you pick up a good stout 2 x 4 or other suitable club and go club him over the head with it a couple times while he's tearing the garbage can apart. And if he takes a swipe at you, club him right across the face with it. I clubbed one so hard once with a piece of 1 1/4 Schedule 40 pipe that it sent him tumbling a$$ over teakettle twice before he staggered to his feet and high-tailed it out of there. If the bear is a big one over 150 lbs, then forget the club and go get the 12 gauge. After about twice the bear learns that if he raids the garbage can he's gonna get clubbed over the head or blasted with some #6. So he don't do it anymore. But not for the Chicago people. When they're all screaming and running for the car, the bear looks at 'em just like I do and wonders just what is wrong these creatures?

    So that's what I've seen with a place where there's a lot of red wires coming into it. The people that live there aren't right. But they're scared to live where there's only two green wires.
    --
    Chris
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

    Yea, neighborhood dogs are yappin these nights, just waiting to have one bruno go for my bee hives, and the buckshot comes out. E-fence seems to work most of the time...I believe we should call it conditioning. We have lots of transient Grizz at the new place, so not sure about hives, unless in a steel shipping container.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    The people that live in Chicago come to where we live and it's almost comical. They camp in a campground in the North Woods here and a bear comes in in the middle of the night and raids their garbage can. So they all scream and run for the car. It's like, what's wrong with these people? If the bear raids your garbage can you pick up a good stout 2 x 4 or other suitable club and go club him over the head with it a couple times while he's tearing the garbage can apart. And if he takes a swipe at you, club him right across the face with it. I clubbed one so hard once with a piece of 1 1/4 Schedule 40 pipe that it sent him tumbling a$$ over teakettle twice before he staggered to his feet and high-tailed it out of there. If the bear is a big one over 150 lbs, then forget the club and go get the 12 gauge. After about twice the bear learns that if he raids the garbage can he's gonna get clubbed over the head or blasted with some #6. So he don't do it anymore. But not for the Chicago people. When they're all screaming and running for the car, the bear looks at 'em just like I do and wonders just what is wrong these creatures?

    Just don't come out to California and try that with brown (grizzly) bears. Whole different kind of bear, quantitatively and qualitatively.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    The people that live in Chicago come to where we live and it's almost comical. They camp in a campground in the North Woods here and a bear comes in in the middle of the night and raids their garbage can. So they all scream and run for the car. It's like, what's wrong with these people? If the bear raids your garbage can you pick up a good stout 2 x 4 or other suitable club and go club him over the head with it a couple times while he's tearing the garbage can apart. And if he takes a swipe at you, club him right across the face with it. I clubbed one so hard once with a piece of 1 1/4 Schedule 40 pipe that it sent him tumbling a$$ over teakettle twice before he staggered to his feet and high-tailed it out of there. If the bear is a big one over 150 lbs, then forget the club and go get the 12 gauge. After about twice the bear learns that if he raids the garbage can he's gonna get clubbed over the head or blasted with some #6. So he don't do it anymore. But not for the Chicago people. When they're all screaming and running for the car, the bear looks at 'em just like I do and wonders just what is wrong these creatures?

    Interesting. Bears around here are scared of people. They won't let you get closer than 50 feet.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

    Was at a California (may have been Federal) camp ground recently--The ranges go through at night an make a huge deal (including fines) if you leave any food out that is not in (a park supplied) bear box/cabinet. As the person two sites away from ours learned.

    If the bear becomes habituated--They end up usually having to be killed.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

    NOTE: Do not try Chris's bear treatment on grizzlies; they are homicidal psychopaths to the bear.
  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    westbranch wrote: »
    so not sure about hives, unless in a steel shipping container.

    The bears are such a headache with our bee hives and apple orchard that it's constant educational process to keep them out. My wife bought a brand new Weatherby auto-loading 12 ga shotgun this last spring just for bee hive defense. The older bears have mostly learned that it's really painful to try to raid the hives. The younger ones have to be taught every year.
    --
    Chris
  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    NOTE: Do not try Chris's bear treatment on grizzlies; they are homicidal psychopaths to the bear.

    We don't have no grizzly bears here. We just got black bears. And they're pretty much a nuisance. Find one in the apple orchard and try to chase it out, and most of time they refuse to leave. They'll climb up a tree, then sit there and look at you. So we've come up with various methods to keep them out, including killing the persistent ones.
    --
    Chris
  • Joe_B
    Joe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

    Sheesh, I thought I was having trouble with all the damn gophers tearing up my septic field but a .22 to the head seems to discourage them. Although about a month ago, I looked out my window to see a 300# bear strolling through my back yard. I did not try the .22 on him though!!!
  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    Joe_B wrote: »
    Although about a month ago, I looked out my window to see a 300# bear strolling through my back yard. I did not try the .22 on him though!!!

    That makes me laugh. About four years ago a badger decided to take up residence in our apple orchard. Well, my wife and badgers don't get along. So she decided to burn him out. She lugged a 5 gallon can of biodiesel fuel in there and poured it down his hole. Then she dumped in a gallon of gasoline and lit it on fire. I was working by the shop when I seen the smoke and wondered just what the heck that woman is doing in there?

    The next thing I seen was my wife coming out of the orchard on a dead run and she kept looking behind her. She's got long blonde hair about to the small of her back, and it was streaming straight out behind. Then I saw the little furball come out of the orchard after her and stop. Then my wife stopped and bent over with her hands on her knees looking back at the little animal. The little animal turned around and went back in the orchard.

    So I jumped on the four wheeler and went over there to see what's going on. Here she was standing there watching the badger's home burn up and expecting to see a flaming badger come out of the hole and run for his life. Well, that badger wasn't stupid and he just came out the back door instead. And the first thing he sees is a crazy blonde woman standing there watching his home burn and this badger immediately decided she was the source of all his problems.

    I never laughed so hard in all my life, although my wife did not think it was all that funny.
    --
    Chris
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    About four years ago a badger decided to take up residence in our apple orchard. Well, my wife and badgers don't get along. So she decided to burn him out.

    I've never tried it on a badger, but pouring used cat litter down the hole is very effective for making groundhogs go away. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    vtmaps wrote: »
    I've never tried it on a badger, but pouring used cat litter down the hole is very effective for making groundhogs go away. --vtMaps

    That's because groundhogs fear cats. Badgers (or wolverines, which are from the same family) fear nothing. They have been known to get into a fight with bears and win. A friend of mine up in Canada happened to get a fight on film between a honey badger that was out foraging and two stupid coyotes that thought they were going to have a meal. Although he doesn't mention it in the video, he found the first coyote that left the fight dead a couple days later. It had gotten its lower jaw bitten and crushed the bones in it, and severed an artery in its neck. It drowned in its own blood.

    [video=youtube_share;mMujMEmPf80]http://youtu.be/mMujMEmPf80[/video]

    If you see a badger - don't mess with it. They normally don't hurt anything as long as you leave them alone. If you accidentally corner one or make it mad, there is no unarmed human that is a match for one.
    --
    Chris
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    The bears are such a headache with our bee hives and apple orchard that it's constant educational process to keep them out. My wife bought a brand new Weatherby auto-loading 12 ga shotgun this last spring just for bee hive defense. The older bears have mostly learned that it's really painful to try to raid the hives. The younger ones have to be taught every year.
    --
    Chris

    Bee keepers in my area (brown bear country) are told to use a fence with alternating hot & ground strands. Minimum 5KV, .7 Joule, Low Impedance charger. But I've got the 12ga too. Fences - even chain link/cyclone fences with posts set in concrete, are not bear proof, they just swat them down. Maybe if the Hulk swings a 2x4, it will get the bear's attention, but you wont see me mixing it up with one.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: Oh--what could go wrong--Gov to do grid joint drill simulation

    Well, I am very confident that these folks will be addressing the major causes of power failures... Oh, look! Squirrel.

    Squirrel Power!
    I was curious, just enough to set up a Google news alert: squirrel power. But as the summer progressed, and the local news reports of power outages caused by squirrels piled up in my in-box, my interest in power outages caused by squirrels became more obsessive and profound.

    I know: it’s hard to accept that a single squirrel can disrupt and frustrate thousands of people at a time, switching off our electrified lives for hours. But since Memorial Day, I’ve cataloged reports of 50 power outages caused by squirrels in 24 states. (And these, of course, are only those power outages severe enough to make the news.) Fifteen hundred customers lost power in Mason City, Iowa; 1,500 customers in Roanoke, Va.; 5,000 customers in Clackamas County, Ore.; and 10,000 customers in Wichita, Kan. — and that was just during two particularly busy days in June. A month later, there were two separate P.O.C.B.S., as I’ve come to call power outages caused by squirrels, around the small town of Evergreen, Mont., on a single day.
    ...
    The industry has also researched discouraging squirrels by spraying utility poles with fox urine and painting equipment red, though both of these tactics have failed; it’s not even clear whether squirrels can see the color red. Some utilities have installed the kind of plastic owl used to keep pigeons off building facades. However, an industry study notes, “one utility reported that the fake owl was attacked by a hawk which in turn caused a substation outage.”

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset