Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

icarus

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Now convert it to waste oil fuel, make friends with the local fast food joint, and you can run it foreveVer for next to nothing!

Tony

Ralph Day

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Chris,
Are you sure the diesel will stay warm all the time? When the Honda runs, won't it be pulling in some of that -30degree air? Are you thinking that the residual heat from the Honda run will keep the shed warm enough to start the diesel anytime between Honda runs? Of course you know when you'll be running the diesel, you can dedicate another heat lamp or something to heat the unit before the startup...unless the heat load turns on the Honda which sucks cold Wisconson air into the shed and cools it down...etc etc. Just some thoghts. You're probably working on the solution to this last month.

Ralph

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Tony, the problem with biodiesel is that it derates the generator and it's tough to store and handle in cold weather. I tried some B20 from the fuel supplier before and my trucks wouldn't run on it when the temp was below zero. Just throw a little Power Service in #2 and it will flow with no problem at -40. The problem with a diesel generator is starting it in the winter, not operating cost.

Ralph, I'm pretty sure the Honda will keep it warm in there. The stat will regulate the temp during operation at about 70 degrees like it does now. So it only pulls in cold air intermittently. The fact that it's warm in there a couple times a day will prevent the little diesel from cold-soaking so it will start. It don't need to be thoroughly pre-heated - it should should start at temps around freezing and I doubt it will get below freezing in there. As long as it starts that's all I need because I can run it at fast idle for 5-10 minutes to warm it up before putting it to work. The throttle system on the Robin is such that you can do that, and it has a "notch" with a catch lever that sets it to the proper operating rpm when you put it online.

As I said before, the diesel would NOT be suitable for peak load support because it has a pressure lube system and requires at least 5 minutes warmup time before putting it to work. If you try to load it before it's fully warmed up it misfires and smokes and will put out a cloud of smoke that's worse than LA smog. Large standby gensets for hospitals and such are kept at full operating temp at all times with electric heaters because they're required to start and accept full campus load within 10 seconds of a power outage. The Honda does the same thing here for us on peak load. But it does it without even a single complaint. That's not possible, or practical, with a diesel.
--
Chris

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Well, I got the new powerhouse pretty much finished. Just need to bury electrical service and control wires to it tomorrow and the Honda can move it. I'll bore the hole in the wall for the Honda's exhaust once I get the generator in there and figure out where it has to be.



That flap door above the window fan opens all by itself when the exhaust fan starts.



--
Chris

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

And here's the conclusion to this project. Don't even ask about that mess on that bank of relays. I have to fix that yet. But at least the Honda auto-starts for now

Screw up a couple wires when I was wiring up the auto-start. I drew a wiring diagram and everything before I pulled it all out of the old enclosure. But my scribbling was illegible when I went to rewire it in the new powerhouse. The gen cranked OK but it wouldn't start. So it took me two hours of tracing gen control circuits from the XW-AGS all the way to the generator plug and thru that bank of relays with a mess of wiring on them that even Nicola Tesla couldn't figure out. I finally found the problem - no power to the engine's ECU because I had a couple wires swapped around.







I did make one change when I buried the service wire to the powerhouse - and that's to only bury one 8/3 w/ground Type UF instead of two. 200 feet of that 8/3 wire was $249 for pete's sake. I decided that it wasn't worth another $249 just to be able to run the Robin diesel on AC1. It's not auto-start anyway. So when I want to use the diesel I'll just pull the plug out of the Honda and plug it into the Robin diesel, and hence use the Robin diesel on AC2.
--
Chris

Ralph Day

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

A good workaround Chris. Do you think the Robin would hold frequency enough to be used on AC1? I know my Robin/Subaru 5K wouldn't, it's voltage regulation is not stable enough (good for heavy loads, but holding frequency during charging would only work on AC2 for me).

Ralph

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Ralph, yes it works fine on AC1. I ran it on the Champion's hookup (got one of those outdoor generator plugs wired into AC1) when I first got it and it didn't have any problems at all.
--
Chris

NorthGuy

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Ralph Day wrote: »

Do you think the Robin would hold frequency enough to be used on AC1? I know my Robin/Subaru 5K wouldn't, it's voltage regulation is not stable enough (good for heavy loads, but holding frequency during charging would only work on AC2 for me).

Do you have XW? Then you can re-program frequency and voltage bounds on AC1 (and on AC2 for that matter) to allow for wider variations.

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

NorthGuy wrote: »

Do you have XW? Then you can re-program frequency and voltage bounds on AC1 (and on AC2 for that matter) to allow for wider variations.

Yes, AC1 and AC2 work identical with a generator as far as I can tell. They call it different things in the menus, AC1 being more grid-oriented and AC2 being more gen oriented. But in actual operation I can't tell any difference. Our Honda puts out more stable power than you get from the utility grid. The Robin and Champion both require a little more leeway on voltage and freq. Even though the Robin and Champion are the same size, the Robin has much better surge capacity, however. The nice thing about a capacitor regulated brushless gen head with no AVR is that the harder it's loaded the stronger the field gets so there's no voltage drop under load like there is with a conventional AVR unit. So voltage isn't a problem at all with the Robin.
--
Chris

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Ralph, I don't know how your 5K Subaru-Robin holds up. But this is a photo I snapped of the little 3300's output, and the inverter is operating in Gen Support Mode for it. We have very heavy loads on this afternoon because of the AC unit running and my wife doing laundry, plus the water heaters going on two elements (rarely happens, but it can happen).

So I started the little Robin diesel to let it do its thing because we don't have enough incoming RE to cover the loads, and not high enough load to auto-start the Honda. Perfect time to "test" my theory that I can power these heavy continuous loads cheaper with the little diesel than I can by digging into the batteries to do it

Attachment not found.

Note that this DOES require gen support. There's no way on god's green earth the little Robin could power 5,200 watts worth of loads. But with Gen Support operating (and just enough RE incoming to cover the inverter's part of it) it's working nicely and the batteries are staying at Float.

The voltage could be a little higher but 111/112 is within "legal" range for utilities on a 120/240V service (110-126/220-252 is the "acceptable range" for utility power). So I'll leave it where it is for now.
--
Chris

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Here's my solution to feeding AC1 with the diesel and AC2 with the Honda, with only one service coming from the powerhouse. This may be a useful idea for other folks with dual generators and inverters with dual AC inputs. It allows running either genset without having to make changes in the inverter programming. And since you can't run both at the same time anyway, there's no sense to having separate services run from the powerhouse to the utility room.

This could've been done in a single box with two breakers but I already had the one box installed for the Honda, and I previously had AC1 hardwired to our Trace T240 transformer and that fed by an outdoor generator plug for the Champion. I discontinued all that, with the chances of the Champion being used for backup now very slim. And instead installed a second box for the AC1 input. Both of these boxes are fed by the same underground service from the powerhouse. No need to use a transfer switch here, or interlock breakers because you can feed both AC inputs on the inverter with the same generator at the same time and it doesn't hurt anything. The inverter just selects whichever AC input you have set as priority.

So bringing the little diesel online for prime power is now as simple as turning off the AC2 box, turning on the AC1 box, going to the powerhouse and pulling the plug out of the Honda and plugging it in to the Robin, start the Robin diesel, bring it up to speed and throw the genset breaker on. Previously I had to reprogram the Gen Support settings for the little generator, then remember to change it back when I took it offline.







I've also always felt that it's very important to label everything - every switch, breaker and gauge and meter - for an off-grid system. Us guys usually take care of everything. But if you're gone someplace and your wife is at home, being she doesn't work with it all the time she can be lost when it comes to figuring it out in the event something needs to be adjusted or changed. If it's all labeled, it's one heck of a lot easier to explain to her what to do over the phone than it is if she was looking at a maze of unlabeled breakers and switches with not a single clue what any of them does.

For most off-grid systems this might not be as important. But our system is pretty complicated compared to most and I got more ways to route power and bypass stuff, just by throwing breakers and switches, than Con Edison.
--
Chris

Ralph Day

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

I know the feeling Chris. SWMBO is retiring in 8 days. One of my first duties will be to develop a detailed, concise protocol for all the re stuff. It's all labelled to my satisfaction, but not anyone else's. I've done the remote-control-by-telephone thing and it's not the best way to do things. "Which black box on the wall? Which breaker? " And my plumbing? Oy. That is all labelled, but still a lot to absorb when switching out the SDHW or the Takagi propane unit.

Ralph

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Yes, my wife knows that if she's running a lot of big things to check the load on the inverter and see if the loads have started the generator or not before adding any more. And if it hasn't and she intends to run several more big things, I installed the manual start switch for the XW-AGS in the utility room to bring the genset online. This is easier for her than trying to navigate the menus to change the Generator Status to Manual On:



I also put in the enable/disable switch so it's easier for me to disable the autostart when I want to service or change oil in the generator.

It might all seem frilly things that you don't really need because you can do it all right at the SCP. But the wires are there in the XW-AGS to install this stuff. Taking the time to do it means that when your wife has to interact with the system, flipping that momentary toggle switch to "Start" to start the generator, and flipping it to "Stop" to stop it, means less chance of her pushing the wrong button in menus that's she's not totally familiar with and potentially screwing something up.
--
Chris

NorthGuy

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Taking the time to do it means that when your wife has to interact with the system, flipping that momentary toggle switch to "Start" to start the generator, and flipping it to "Stop" to stop it, means less chance of her pushing the wrong button in menus that's she's not totally familiar with and potentially screwing something up.

Very nice solution. It's much easier to flip switches rather than navigating hyerarchical menus. I always try to buy things with switches rather than menus.

icarus

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Been there, done that!

My brother was staying at my place one time, and the batteries were not getting enough sun, so I told him to run the genny. After running the genny for several hours a day for a couple of days he said they were still falling in SoC. What I neglected to tell him was to turn the breaker ON on the battery charger 120 vac circuit. It never occurred to me that A it was off and B he wouldn't notice that the charger was not putting any current out in spite of having the Trimetric right in his face!

Labels are on everything, instruction sheets for everything in Lamar's verbage, and still people who don't know...don't know and can scew things up!

Tony

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

icarus wrote: »

Labels are on everything, instruction sheets for everything in Lamar's verbage, and still people who don't know...don't know and can scew things up!

That's right. Something that's obvious to us is just not obvious to somebody who is not familiar with this stuff. My wife was totally familiar with the old SW+ system. When we got the XW system I showed her how to navigate the menus to find the Gen Status and change it to "Manual On" to start it. She looked at it and asked "What is X-WAGS?" It took me by surprise for a bit and then I saw what she was asking about - the default name in the Device Menu for the Auto Gen Start is XWAGS. So I told her that and she says, "Well - why can't it say that then instead of X-WAGS?"

So I renamed all the defaults so it's more human friendly.

But even so, being she only uses a manual gen start maybe once or twice a month, she has trouble finding the option in the SCP to manually start the genset. The toggle switch that activates the start/stop sequence in the AGS fixed that - it's simple.

It's not that we should just expect our wives or somebody unfamiliar with it to understand it all in one glance. But stuff should be labeled because when you explain something like that to somebody, even though they may not totally grasp it right away, the labels help them remember what you told them.
--
Chris

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Well, this system has been in operation for a few days now and it works good, running our AC unit. The chances of anybody else ever using a prime power setup like this are probably nil to none. But it still might be useful to document an unconventional solution to a continuous high load problem for off-grid folks.

It takes the right genset for something like this. A gas set is not suitable for continuous operation. The generator I chose is hard to find (a Yanmar YDG would've been my second choice). The Robin, originally called the Wisconsin-Robin WRD1-270, has been used by the US armed forces for over 20 years for their small 3 kW gensets. They have a reputation for running 10,000+ hours between overhauls, and many times twice that on prime duty where they don't get thermal-cycled a lot. Deutz built some air-cooled diesel gensets at one time that would run those kinds of hours between overhauls. But they're few and far between. So just any generator isn't going to work, or it'll be wore out before its time.

Longer term operation of the Robin, running our AC, I'm not happy with the voltage output at 60 Hz. It's running at 226-228 @ 2.3 kVA load and 60 Hz, and it rises to 232 or so under increased load. It's got two 20uF capacitors on the exciter. I'm going to replace one of those with a 30uF and that'll bump the voltage up closer to 240 at nominal prime load so the heavier draw items like the AC pull fewer amps. This genset was built back when 220V was the nominal for split phase power in the US. Capacitor regulated brushless generators don't have an AVR that you can adjust, so replacing the capacitors is the only way to adjust it.

And after longer term operation I made yet another change to the airflow in the powerhouse. I studied where the heat seems to accumulate and how the air flows in there with either genset. The Honda runs cool compared to the diesel. But the Robin is, after all, a diesel and diesel fuel burns hot. The exhaust temp of the Honda runs at 550-580°F. The exhaust temp of the Robin hits over 1,000°F in overload, and runs at 875-900°F during normal operation. The diesel cycle, being a true heat cycle, as opposed to spark ignition engines which are pressure based, means more heat. The Robin DY27 runs at 23.5:1 compression ratio. The Honda is only 8.5:1

I found out that placing the circulation fan above the genset forces the warm air down to the floor instead of letting it rise. It gets more readily picked up by the airflow coming in the fresh air side and gets carried up the wall to the exhaust fan and right out the hole. Just making that change, instead of blowing the air directly at the side of the genset, reduced the temp in the powerhouse by 7°.

I put together a sort of recap video of the whole prime power deal in operation, and showing the changes I made in the powerhouse

[video=youtube_share;EkoWb6LMEsM]http://youtu.be/EkoWb6LMEsM[/video]

--
Chris

Panamretiree

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Well, this system has been in operation for a few days now and it works good, running our AC unit. The chances of anybody else ever using a prime power setup like this are probably nil to none. But it still might be useful to document an unconventional solution to a continuous high load problem for off-grid folks.

It takes the right genset for something like this. A gas set is not suitable for continuous operation. The generator I chose is hard to find (a Yanmar YDG would've been my second choice). The Robin, originally called the Wisconsin-Robin WRD1-270, has been used by the US armed forces for over 20 years for their small 3 kW gensets. They have a reputation for running 10,000+ hours between overhauls, and many times twice that on prime duty where they don't get thermal-cycled a lot. Deutz built some air-cooled diesel gensets at one time that would run those kinds of hours between overhauls. But they're few and far between. So just any generator isn't going to work, or it'll be wore out before its time.

Longer term operation of the Robin, running our AC, I'm not happy with the voltage output at 60 Hz. It's running at 226-228 @ 2.3 kVA load and 60 Hz, and it rises to 232 or so under increased load. It's got two 20uF capacitors on the exciter. I'm going to replace one of those with a 30uF and that'll bump the voltage up closer to 240 at nominal prime load so the heavier draw items like the AC pull fewer amps. Why would you not replace both capacitors to keep it "balanced" so to speak? This genset was built back when 220V was the nominal for split phase power in the US. Capacitor regulated brushless generators don't have an AVR that you can adjust, so replacing the capacitors is the only way to adjust it.
--
Chris

Chris

Your documenting your adventure with your Robin diesel is worthwhile and is not so unconventional as you have stated. I submit that more and more people who may be thinking of doing a switch or partial switch to RE have in the back of their minds the question of how they are going to maintain what they are used to, but at the same time reduce to a simpler, greener, get rid of the electric bill lifestyle. The big question will always be about AC. The older we get as well seems to bring this into the equation even for those already off the grid.

There are also few people who would think about modifying their generator to meet their requirements. It will give the back yard enthusiasts another tool in their arsenal of tweaks.

So the question will always be, how do I put AC into the equation without breaking the bank, and your setup shows that it can be done. How this can be applied to an individuals requirements is the key. In our instance, I was already looking at generator support and generator assist as a key element for our system to keep the battery bank and solar array from getting to unwieldy. NorthGuy helped me in this respect by proposing a daily operating regime that would have the AC units operate for 4 hours a day with generator assist, something I did not think about. The generator size would handle the loads and provide supplemental charging during this period, which is very close to what you are doing with your setup. This can be tweaked depending on what is available in the generator department with regard to gas or diesel, and size of generator. I personally like your scenario of a smaller generator and use the generator support function.

Another plus is that AC units, whichever kind, are becoming more energy efficient and this makes AC more plausible for the off-grid setup.

The consensus is that an off-grid system needs a generator, and because of this, companies are starting to see more and more potential in the RE industry such as Yanmar and its slow-turning 5 kW diesel generator - http://www.generatorsales.com/order/yanmar_4kw.asp?page=yanmar_4kw . The literature for this diesel clearly states that this little diesel is ideal for a solar power application. Diesel generator sets like this one could also eliminate the need for having more than one generator as it has an auto-start feature as well.

I just finished reading the book "The New Solar Electric Home" by Joel Davidson and it is dated, and some of the concepts have evolved considerably. It shows me that what was revolutionary back then, and not so long ago, has now evolved to be mainstream and widely accepted. This too will happen with what you are doing. It makes sense, is practical and affordable. It will become an element to be considered when designing a system, not just whether or not to have a generator backup, but how it will be used within that system.

Enough of my rant and standing on my soapbox. This is my humble opinion FWIW.

Cheers

Ernest

vtmaps

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Panamretiree wrote: »

such as Yanmar and its slow-turning 5 kW diesel generator

I just looked at the specs on the Yanmar YDG diesel generators. They turn at 3600 RPM. Is that considered slow for a diesel?
Disclaimer: I know very little about diesel engines, but the diesel farm tractors I have used are well below 3600 RPM.

--vtMaps

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

Panamretiree wrote: »

Why would you not replace both capacitors to keep it "balanced" so to speak?

The caps are in parallel on the exciter winding in a brushless gen head. You can use any combination to set the capacitance of the circuit to what you need to adjust flux in the rotor core. The flux at the rotor's poles generates AC in the rotor core, which is rectified to DC by two rotating diodes in the rotor, and the DC flows thru the field winding. Two 25's will do the same thing as a 20 and 30. Going to two 30's would probably bump the field up enough so it would go over 250.

Whether the genset is 1800 rpm or 3600rpm for 60 Hz doesn't make any difference. 1800rpm engines have to be bigger, heavier, higher displacement and longer stroke. If the stroke in a 1800rpm engine is double that of a 3600rpm unit, the mean piston speed is the same and the 1800rpm unit actually has higher acceleration forces on the rod and piston, and much higher peak loading on rod bearings. So either type of genset will work. But you're going to spend a lot more money on a properly designed 1800rpm set because of all the extra iron in the engine, and a 4 pole generator instead of a 2 pole.

Thermal cycling is what eventually kills most standby generator engines. So in theory a liquid-cooled genset would be more ideally suited to prime power applications. Not that an air-cooled genset won't work, but take note of the design of my powerhouse to insure the air-cooled engines run at the right operating temp year 'round, down to even using thermostatically controlled ventilation in the powerhouse.
--
Chris

unicornio

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

vtmaps wrote: »

I just looked at the specs on the Yanmar YDG diesel generators. They turn at 3600 RPM. Is that considered slow for a diesel?
Disclaimer: I know very little about diesel engines, but the diesel farm tractors I have used are well below 3600 RPM.

if these motors are running to 3600rpm @ 60Hz, I was wrong. the poster says "slow turning", then therein lies? ... ;-)

I can not get that far in my analysis as Chris, but I always thought that lower rpm generators (1500 @ 50Hz and 1800 @ 60Hz) had a lower consumption, less wear and logically, lower maintenance requirements, and also much lower noise ...and 3600rpm is not "slow turning"...

I always wanted to have a generator that runs at 1500 rpm, maybe I was wrong? ...

I think that diesel engines used for small generators usually come from nautical market for small boats, where its use usually not over 1500rpm, then, I will be wrong again? ...;-)
even my old landcruiser lj70 suffers when it goes above 3500rpm...

icarus

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

The RPM is related to the AC frequency. 1500 (and it's multiples) is a 50 HZ genny, 1800 is 60 HZ.

Tony

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

unicornio wrote: »

I can not get that far in my analysis as Chris, but I always thought that lower rpm generators (1500 @ 50Hz and 1800 @ 60Hz) had a lower consumption, less wear and logically, lower maintenance requirements

There's a lot of assumptions there. The thing that limits rpm in large engines is piston speed and stresses on components. An example that everybody is more than likely familiar with is the Japanese-built high revving inline four-cylinder air-cooled motorcycle engines that almost put Harley-Davidson out of business in the early 80's. The little inline fours develop roughly twice the power on half the displacement, get better fuel economy, and easily last 4x longer than the big slow-turning 45° Harley "Milwaukee Iron" V-twin.

So, basically, don't get hung up on genset rpm. There is no inherent advantage to low-speed engines, contrary to popular belief. If you don't need the full power output of the engine, then you can turn it slower and maybe save on some fuel. But HP = Torque x RPM / 5252. So if you reduce rpm of a given engine you have to increase torque to get the same power output. Torque takes bigger shafts and components because it places high loading on components. So there's tradeoff's.
--
Chris

unicornio

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

ChrisOlson wrote: »

There's a lot of assumptions there. The thing that limits rpm in large engines is piston speed and stresses on components. An example that everybody is more than likely familiar with is the Japanese-built high revving inline four-cylinder air-cooled motorcycle engines that almost put Harley-Davidson out of business in the early 80's. The little inline fours develop roughly twice the power on half the displacement, get better fuel economy, and easily last 4x longer than the big slow-turning 45° Harley "Milwaukee Iron" V-twin.

So, basically, don't get hung up on genset rpm. There is no inherent advantage to low-speed engines, contrary to popular belief. If you don't need the full power output of the engine, then you can turn it slower and maybe save on some fuel. But HP = Torque x RPM / 5252. So if you reduce rpm of a given engine you have to increase torque to get the same power output. Torque takes bigger shafts and components because it places high loading on components. So there's tradeoff's.

I can not argue with if you go deep in terms of mechanics, and I'm used to that in the life is very easy to be wrong when you touch the issues in a superficial way. in any case, if you think it's true that consumption and wear are not greater when the rpm rise, i need to agree with you...

in the same way, when I bought my atv (yamaha grizzly) hallucinate when I saw that they had made (yamaha) ​​a 660 cc engine with a single cylinder ... another good mechanic like you explained to me that the reason was to equalize the diameter of the piston with the engine displacement is to get the elasticity that make an engine can give high torque in both, high and low rpm ... I assumed this as a constant, and the truth is that the grizzly is a very good machine, but consume many liters of gasoline! ... ;-)

by the way, one day maybe you tell me what are in the picture of your avatar!...;-)

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

unicornio wrote: »

by the way, one day maybe you tell me what are in the picture of your avatar!...;-)

That's one of my wind turbines - a 4.0 meter machine with me standing by it. I was servicing it at night in the dead of winter and my wife wondered why I never came in for supper. She seen me out there working on it so she came out and took a photo :cool:

Well, I couldn't find a 30 uF capacitor in my Box Of Stuff. But I found a 16 uF one. So I put that in parallel with the two 20's. Lookit what we got now from the little Robin. It was a little more capacitance on the exciter coil than I wanted, but it's only a couple volts high now. Which is better than being too low

Attachment not found.

--
Chris

unicornio

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

ChrisOlson wrote: »

That's one of my wind turbines - a 4.0 meter machine with me standing by it. I was servicing it at night in the dead of winter and my wife wondered why I never came in for supper. She seen me out there working on it so she came out and took a photo :cool:

hehehehe, very good, it appears as drone helicopter!...good to have a time for not being able to go to any site! ... ;-)

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Well, I couldn't find a 30 uF capacitor in my Box Of Stuff. But I found a 16 uF one. So I put that in parallel with the two 20's. Lookit what we got now from the little Robin. It was a little more capacitance on the exciter coil than I wanted, but it's only a couple volts high now. Which is better than being too low

it's funny ... in generators with brush, the output voltage is managed by the avr putting more or less (DC) volts on the driver, i know this because you help me when I have broke my avr ... however, the brushless generators it marks the output voltage when capacity is higher or lower ...

i think that more high voltaje is best, but some but how many more volts that we can not burn the tv or refrigerator... I want to adjust to 250v generator output but ... you think i have danger to burning something with 250v? .... hehehehe, but with 250v i will charge 2500w instead 2200 a 230v...;-)

also I want to ask you (sorry the offtopic) if I want to raise the frequency of the output, would have to play the acceleration screw, no? ... my genset usually work with 45-48 hz, around 2900 rpm, i want to raise a little too! ... (better if over than below) if you could explain a bit how this works, how to manage engine acceleration??? ... who moves the throttle??? ... ;-) 've ever thought this, in gasoline genset there an actuator that moves the throttle on the carburetor, but diesel engines do not understand any of what happens ...;-)))

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

unicornio wrote: »

it's funny ... in generators with brush, the output voltage is managed by the avr putting more or less (DC) volts on the driver, i know this because you help me when I have broke my avr ... however, the brushless generators it marks the output voltage when capacity is higher or lower ...

Yes, brushless heads have stronger flux in the rotor core under higher load, and weaker flux under lighter load. That phenomenon is used to regulate the voltage in conjunction with a capacitor on the exciter coil.

i think that more high voltaje is best, but some but how many more volts that we can not burn the tv or refrigerator... I want to adjust to 250v generator output but ... you think i have danger to burning something with 250v? .... hehehehe, but with 250v i will charge 2500w instead 2200 a 230v...;-)

Theoretically you can go that high with a 230V/50Hz European system. The voltage range is +10%/-6% for European power. So the max is 253, the min is 216. Your stuff should be fine with 250V.

also I want to ask you (sorry the offtopic) if I want to raise the frequency of the output, would have to play the acceleration screw, no? ... my genset usually work with 45-48 hz, around 2900 rpm, i want to raise a little too!

Yes, you need to tweak up the governor a bit. You should adjust it for 50Hz @ rated continuous load. It should rise to no more than 52 Hz at no-load. For US/Canada 60Hz power the acceptable range is 58-62 Hz - 60 is nominal, no less than 58 at full surge power, no more than 62 at no-load.
--
Chris

unicornio

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Theoretically you can go that high with a 230V/50Hz European system. The voltage range is +10%/-6% for European power. So the max is 253, the min is 216. Your stuff should be fine with 250V.

is the same calculation that I have done, but i am afraid because maybe is very close to the limits .... lol
I thought I could put it at 245 to get a little more than to 230 ... the voltage range varies slightly depending on the load ...

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Yes, you need to tweak up the governor a bit. You should adjust it for 50Hz @ rated continuous load. It should rise to no more than 52 Hz at no-load. For US/Canada 60Hz power the acceptable range is 58-62 Hz - 60 is nominal, no less than 58 at full surge power, no more than 62 at no-load.

thanks so much, Cris, I will experience it one of these days and I'll tell you ... it's like fine tuning, or an optimization ... hehehehe

ChrisOlson

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

unicornio wrote: »

is the same calculation that I have done, but i am afraid because maybe is very close to the limits .... lol
I thought I could put it at 245 to get a little more than to 230 ... the voltage range varies slightly depending on the load ...

Well, ideally you want to stay as close to the nominal as possible. And that can vary by locale in Europe. In Sweden it's 240V, Germany and the UK is 230V but some areas are 240V, Denmark is a mix of 230 and 240V. The standard in the EU is supposed to be 230/415 50Hz. So if you are off-grid I would set the generator to whatever the inverter runs at under normal conditions (should be 230V), and don't "tweak" it to try to get more out of the generator.
--
Chris

unicornio

Re: Robin RGD3300 Diesel Genset

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Well, ideally you want to stay as close to the nominal as possible. And that can vary by locale in Europe. In Sweden it's 240V, Germany and the UK is 230V but some areas are 240V, Denmark is a mix of 230 and 240V. The standard in the EU is supposed to be 230/415 50Hz. So if you are off-grid I would set the generator to whatever the inverter runs at under normal conditions (should be 230V), and don't "tweak" it to try to get more out of the generator.

Well, it is a little check, touching limits ... hehehehe
I am looking for some information about the governor of this small genset engines, and I do not quite understand yet how it works, if it is a electric device, or maybe mechanical like the old ...