absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

North

I'm a single guy looking to get off the grid. I don't really have as much energy needs as some people. I don't really know what to look for, so I'm kind of just looking at wattage as my guide, but solar seems pretty reasonable for me. Also, I should mention that I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania.

Heres what I imagine as my max capacity, some of these numbers are known, some are averages because I couldnt find real info:
Item-watts
Computer 108
Monitor 55
Router 22
Modem 22 (modem and router can be one unit I suppose, but right now it isnt)
Computer Speakers 10
Small fridge 90


bedroom, living room, kitchen, bathroom (lights)

108+55+22+22+10+90+(40)*4 = 467 watts

for heat, I imagine I could just use good old fashioned fire wood.

I was looking at the following set of panels, if I bought two it should be fine (total 1000 watts): http://www.amazon.com/Premium-RENOGY-solar-Panel-System/dp/B00B8F4UZ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368412088&sr=8-1&keywords=solar+panel+500w

(I dont know what else is needed to go along with that, so if someone could set me in the right direction that would be great)

The only thing is, right now I dont know what to do about food. I use a foreman grill but it uses way too much power, I dont know what the best alternative is. I only really eat meat, fruits and vegetables, so my cooking needs aren't exactly complicated, and I don't do any fancy stuff, so whatever is beyond a firepit in the back yard should do.

Cariboocoot

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Welcome to the forum.

Let's ask the crucial question: Why do you want to go off grid?
If it's to save money on your electric bill, forget it; off-grid power can't compete with utility power per kW hour.
If it's because you're building/buying somewhere that grid power installation would be expensive or impossible it's possible.
If it's to make a political/ecological statement, that's a matter of personal choice.

Just know in advance that it is expensive.

In any case your best move is to get a Kill-A-Watt meter and start measuring the actual power consumed of everything you want to run under typical conditions. This will help no matter what the power source is because it will identify high-use items; replacing them with lower-power equivalents will help no matter what.

Next, for off-grid you do not start with the panels; you start with the batteries. They are what supply the power; the panels recharge them. Until you have usage figures you can't really pick system Voltage and battery capacity, so it is far to early in the design process to be looking at panels.

Photowhit

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

I think you are looking at momentary wattage, a computer and monitor that use 160 watts an hour together, might use 1600 watts if used for 10 hours. Big users of electric in most households are Water heater and Refrigerator, of course Electric heat and Air conditioning are generally to high a wattage to even consider.

There is a bit of a trade off in that panels rated at 500 watts will generally produce around 1000 watt hours of usable electric energy.

If your would just like a primitive existence, solar can help provide some minimal 'extras' at a reasonable cost but not if your trying to live a 'normal' existence.

Organic Farmer

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Welcome.

North wrote: »

... I should mention that I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania.

... for heat, I imagine I could just use good old fashioned fire wood.

... The only thing is, right now I dont know what to do about food. I use a foreman grill but it uses way too much power, I dont know what the best alternative is. I only really eat meat, fruits and vegetables, so my cooking needs aren't exactly complicated, and I don't do any fancy stuff, so whatever is beyond a firepit in the back yard should do.

The 'Kill-A-Watt' meter is great. Get one.

I am going to take this in a different direction. The regular posters on this forum are great for geeking out on solar design and technical parts.

I live in Maine, in a house I built, I associate with a lot of permaculture and off-grid sustainable lifestyle folks.

I heat with wood. A well insulated house in this area can winter-over with 4 cords of wood. But this is NOT an ordinary house, and it is not using a fireplace. To use wood to it's optimum, you need a house designed for holding heat and a wood system that had thought put into it. My wood stove heats water. I circulate heated water into a thermal-bank. Warm water from our thermal-bank is circulated through our radiant flooring. Since we have the thermal-bank and radiant flooring already in use, we plan to one day include a solar-thermal array to heat water for us in addition to our woodstove.



Food:
Stir-fry over a rocket stove is very efficient.

Some people would argue about a 'raw food' diet.

There is a lot to be said for a stew pot sat on a wood stove. Meat, veggie, herbs combinations are very easy. Actually in this culture, after you have done it for a few weeks, you may really impress folks with how good stews can be.

You are right that electric grills use way too much power, as do coffee pots.

Good luck

North

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Just for information sake, I looked at my energy bill and here's some kWh records:

From 4-26-2012 to now
Min: 131
Max: 353 (this is a major outlier but is probably related to leaving the ac on)
Average: 210

Last month I used 144 kWh

My interests are pretty close to organic farmer's. I plan on doing the whole permaculture thing :-)

Panamretiree

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Organic Farmer wrote: »

I am going to take this in a different direction. The regular posters on this forum are great for geeking out on solar design and technical parts.

I heat with wood. A well insulated house in this area can winter-over with 4 cords of wood. But this is NOT an ordinary house, and it is not using a fireplace. To use wood to it's optimum, you need a house designed for holding heat and a wood system that had thought put into it. My wood stove heats water. I circulate heated water into a thermal-bank. Warm water from our thermal-bank is circulated through our radiant flooring. Since we have the thermal-bank and radiant flooring already in use, we plan to one day include a solar-thermal array to heat water for us in addition to our wood stove.

Your radiant flooring for a house on or off-grid is possibly the way to go. It as been proven that if you keep your feet warm, the rest of you stays warmer as well. The heat also stratifies and heats a space better than most other heating. Chris Olson has proven that you can use electric hot water heating in an off-grid application, even without a huge infrastructure investment by using generator support. He has a great video on it. Our friends in Vancouver installed hot water radiant flooring in the entrance foyer and main bathroom in their house in False Creek, and it was absolutely one of the best renovating decisions they made, also helped sell the house.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Cheers

Ernest

Photowhit

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

North wrote: »

From 4-26-2012 to now
Min: 131
Max: 353 (this is a major outlier but is probably related to leaving the ac on)
Average: 210

Last month I used 144 kWh

Those are pretty reasonable numbers, is this the home you would like to use solar in? Is there a desire to be independent of the electric company or "Off Grid"? How do you heat water?

Actually a Forman grill while it uses a good bit of electric, I think the small one uses 650-770watts, it isn't used for a long period of time and is very reasonable to run off batteries, I do it all the time since I increased my array to @1000 watts on a 24V 220 Amp battery bank. I do try to use it during the day time. There are other ideas about what works and doesn't work in the "Energy Use & Conservation" section.

My low month is around 100 Kwh and my high around 440 even higher during last summers unusually hot summer. With the high use in summer for Air Conditioning. I was going to try and go off grid with 4000 watt array, but have extra to install due to some good fortune. I'll heat with wood and will use an air conditioner. Not sure how hot and humid your location is...

Panamretiree

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Photowhit wrote: »

Actually a Forman grill while it uses a good bit of electric, I think the small one uses 650-770watts, it isn't used for a long period of time and is very reasonable to run off batteries, I do it all the time since I increased my array to @1000 watts on a 24V 220 Amp battery bank. I do try to use it during the day time. There are other ideas about what works and doesn't work in the "Energy Use & Conservation" section.

We have a George Foreman grill as well. Told the Mrs she would have to do without it when we go solar. Think I'll dig it out and do a trial with the K-A-W and see what it draws. We have some chicken to cook tonight. Thanks for the idea.

Cheers

Ernest

bmet

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

I have the 2 patty GFG, and here are it's power numbers according to K-A-W meter.
P.F. 0.99 - 1.00
Amps 6.17
VA 727
Watts 727

It takes 5-6 minutes to grill two good-sized chicken breasts, 4-5 minutes for ground beef patties. This is very doable with solar.

Panamretiree wrote: »

We have a George Foreman grill as well. Told the Mrs she would have to do without it when we go solar. Think I'll dig it out and do a trial with the K-A-W and see what it draws. We have some chicken to cook tonight. Thanks for the idea.

Cheers

Ernest

North

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Photowhit wrote: »

Those are pretty reasonable numbers, is this the home you would like to use solar in? Is there a desire to be independent of the electric company or "Off Grid"? How do you heat water?

Actually a Forman grill while it uses a good bit of electric, I think the small one uses 650-770watts, it isn't used for a long period of time and is very reasonable to run off batteries, I do it all the time since I increased my array to @1000 watts on a 24V 220 Amp battery bank. I do try to use it during the day time. There are other ideas about what works and doesn't work in the "Energy Use & Conservation" section.

My low month is around 100 Kwh and my high around 440 even higher during last summers unusually hot summer. With the high use in summer for Air Conditioning. I was going to try and go off grid with 4000 watt array, but have extra to install due to some good fortune. I'll heat with wood and will use an air conditioner. Not sure how hot and humid your location is...

I would like to be able to do solar where I live now, but its an apartment. Within the next 2 years, I will be buying land and I can then have more say with everything. I will also be buying more efficient appliances (fridge for example)

I want to be off the grid.

I also dont know how the water is heated in my apartment.

rich

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

I purchased a pair of these, I contacted the seller and made a lowball offer, he accepted it...getting two of these to my door for about a buck fifty a wat....maby U can try this, they seem very easy to deal with...tc and good luck.

Photowhit

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

rich wrote: »

I purchased a pair of these, I contacted the seller and made a lowball offer, he accepted it...getting two of these to my door for about a buck fifty a wat....maby U can try this, they seem very easy to deal with...tc and good luck.

Did the Mods remove a link? maybe you could at least tell us what you had delivered for $1.50 a watt...

Cariboocoot

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Photowhit wrote: »

Did the Mods remove a link? maybe you could at least tell us what you had delivered for $1.50 a watt...

Nope. No editing done at this end.

rich

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Oh sorry, renergy 100 watt panels ,monocrystaline...if I was a little richer right now I would have purchased more of these ,in my opinion they seem to be better quality than the eco-worthy panels that regularly go for about 1.50$ a watt (or less)...these are multicrystaline....ok I don't evan see the post I was replying to...lol, not sure what happened....

Photowhit

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

rich wrote: »

....ok I don't evan see the post I was replying to...lol, not sure what happened....

Likely your just on the second page of the thread...

I'm in the states, but figured since it appear to be hard for our Northern Neighbor to find reasonably price small wattage panels that others might like to know. Thanks!

niel

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Nope. No editing done at this end.

coot don't you know we are suspected as being at fault automatically in the case of a brain fart. so who is responsible when we have a brain fart? i know, let's suspect pwhit.:p just kidding pwhit.

westbranch

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Nope, I'm sure it was Kilroy, he left his card...Attachment not found.

Photowhit

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

It was me, I did it!

I use to run a press room/back shop and I hated that people were always worried who was to blame, so it became 'Whit's Fault' and we addressed fixing the problem.

Cariboocoot

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Ugh. Part of my old job was to point out who really was to blame when something came up defective. When you get to say "it's engineering's fault; they designed it wrong", "it's manufacturing's fault; they're not building it right", or "it's quality control's fault; they're letting in defective parts" why everybody just loves you.
I was the most unpopular guy in the place. The only one who liked me was the division president because, he said, I took some of the fire away from him.
When my stupidvisor started telling me not to do that (my job), I quit.

No joke. Lots of money, ten times as much stress.

Photowhit

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Funny...

I was laided-off today. In truth I was happy about it....

I had been stressed out since the BOD decided they needed to do the hiring, and we needed some one on duty every day since April 1st and no one was hired until mid May. I was working close to every day I think 26 out of 30 at one point and likely 41 out of 47 and the gate went down (security) 2x and I came in Sunday at noon and had 30 hours in when I went home Tuesday at 8am.

I the new person had not been inside of the park (2 miles of road) Wed before Memorial day. So since I hadn't been given permission I donated a couple hours and a guard from last year drove her around for a couple hours. Friday I got a call about 10:30 that I wasn't scheduled for the weekend (our busiest) I had told the manager I obviously no longer met their needs and needed to be laid-off last Saturday, so he did. They only budgeted $30K for security for the year and we used $39K last year with every one laided-off and me reduced to 16 hour weeks last fall. So I would have been laided-off then anyway, and I'd rather have a clean break since I've been the only one on call for the last 8 months.

So every day I had to call in, even when I was working 16 hour weeks, to see if I was needed to check in campers or do some other late night business. I like the place and even donated 2 days a week during the 4 month lay off to give some idea that someone was around. My cabin is located inside the park. Watch the 'for sale' threads if anyone is in the St Louis area!

niel

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

wow, i don't know if i should say so sorry or be happy for you. are you moving as a result?

inetdog

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

Photowhit wrote: »

It was me, I did it!

I use to run a press room/back shop and I hated that people were always worried who was to blame, so it became 'Whit's Fault' and we addressed fixing the problem.

My wife and I agreed, even before we were married, that to avoid arguments the assigned fault would rotate weekly. My fault week, her fault week, San Andreas Fault week (CA joke).

Photowhit

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

niel wrote: »

wow, i don't know if i should say so sorry or be happy for you. are you moving as a result?

Oh be happy for me! I actually asked for it, things were getting too out of hand and I basically was told I would be laid-off in the fall again.

I'm gong to stick around, Have far too much to catch up on after the last 2 months, I finally got the fork lift battery moved over here yesterday after I heard, and it's on my trailer waiting to get moved around into position. It rained this morning, but I got my mower going and mowed some today, need to clear a path and work on a pad to 'drop' it on. I hope it'll dry out enough to do Sunday. I have 2 -18" square concrete pads to level up and use for a base. Built the new battery box with ground contact 4x4's at the base, it's near level so I hope I don't have to worry about a washout underneath, but built smaller than the 4x4' previous box.

Still need to build a chicken tractor and setup either the array from the cabin or the 2.6kw in my guest room...
...Then all the things to get the cabin ready to sell.

Likely I'll piddle, I use to do some crafts and I might do some on line things, but I've positioned my self where I don't need a lot to survive...

Still looking for a 'like button' for the Fissycist's post!

niel

Re: absolute beginner here/solar feasibility check

i guess post 22 is good if it works. now i had a joke in mind about asphalt, but i have to be good here and set a good example.:-)

you can rate the thread, but not a post.