AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

System

I am wondering if anyone here has any experience or opinions on AM Solar's RV and MPPT optimized AM100 panel.

Here is what they have to say about it:

The AM100 is custom made exclusively for us by BP Solar and is designed to be a perfect match to the Heliotrope Current Boosting series of MPPT Solar Charge Controllers.

By incorporating 44 high efficiency polycrystalline cells, the AM100 operates at a much higher operating voltage than standard 36 cell solar panels. This higher voltage provides the Heliotrope MPPT Controllers with what they need to achieve the maximum possible boost to the output charging amperage.

When combined with Heliotrope's Current Boosting MPPT Charge Controllers
You will regularly see a 35% to 65% boost over the AM100’s normal operating amperage!

Considering that weight is an issue with RVs. The AM100s weight of 20.8 lbs.
is 6 to 12 lbs. lighter than the competitors models.

More here: http://www.amsolar.com/am100.html

I am looking for the optimal panels to install onto my small RV. I have at most just 61" x 30" of roof space to play with. Is this a reasonable panel to go with?

- Chris // www.technomadia.com

nigtomdaw

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

Have a look at this Thread

System2

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

I saw that thread - but the issue raised doesn't seem particularly valid. AM Solar seems to be pretty clear (at least on their website now) that their panel is intended for use with an MPPT controller only - I didn't find their claims particularly misleading or deceptive in this regard.

They claim to have done a lot of head-to-head testing:
http://www.amsolar.com/test.html

Any thoughts?

- Chris // www.technomadia.com

mike95490

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

97.61 watts.
watts are watts. If you shuffle them around with a MPPT charge controller, you can get 50A @2V or 6.5A @ 15V , it's still 97.61W (plus internal losses)

Per watt, that's an expensive panel. If it fits, that's what counts. What is the "Limited " in the warranty for ?

nigtomdaw

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

I agree Mike sometimes trying to help seems a thankless task ! If youve formed your opinion why ask the question ?

System2

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

My apologies! I haven't already formed my opinion - I am just trying to understand the tradeoffs and make sense of the marketing claims. The thread that was linked to said:

The supposed advantage from their panels comes from the mppt controller(s) not the inherent advantage of their panel. If you read the link carefully they point that out, but not in a way that the novice would understand.

I don't know whether they have changed the wording on their website - but it was pretty clear to me that they are saying they are designed for use with an MPPT controller.

The real question is this - are there any theoretical advantages to a 44 cell panel / higher voltage for RV and/or high temperature use?

This is what AM Solar says:
In high cell temperature conditions ALL panels experience a voltage drop. Crystalline panels will perform well as long as they have at least 36 cells and an operating voltage of about 17 volts. Check out our 44 cell AM100 Solar Panel that operates at a whopping 21.5 volts. With high voltage like that, you never have to worry about voltage drop due to high temperatures.

Is this a real advantage, or marketing BS?

-- Chris // www.technomadia.com

BB.

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

A good quality solar panel made by a good manufacturer is nice. The panel is a bit on the expensive side. The quote from the solar panel page:

When combined with Heliotrope's Current Boosting MPPT Charge Controllers You will regularly see a 35% to 65% boost over the AM100’s normal operating amperage!

Is true of any decent MPPT controller connected with a panel that outputs more than the minimum 17.5 volts or so at Vmp.

The claims from the "Test" page--according to the date stamp--have not been changed/updated since Feb of 2007. So the original issues are still true.

Very little documentation. Appear to be comparing MPPT with PWM controllers--if you connect a PWM controller to a "high voltage" Solar panel (like the AM100 or any grid tie designed solar panel out there) will deliver less amp*hours to a 12 volt battery bank.

This test proved that the combination of two of our 44 cell AM100 solar panels and our HPV-22 Current Boosting MPPT charge controller was able to deliver more amp-hours per day than either of the other equivalent systems. One being 200 watts of ICP panels combined with their ICP Pro "On/Off" type of charge controller. The other being 200 watts of Kyocera panels combined with a Morningstar ProStar 30 "PWM" type of charge controller.

How much "more amp-hours per day"? What were the test conditions (temperature, wind)?

Generally, there are probably enough variations in the setup (using battery banks instead of calibrated loads) and hand waving (no graphs of efficiency)--that there is nothing really there to comment on.

In the end, this may be a very good MPPT charge controller, or a not so good one. It is really hard to tell...

If anyone here has first hand experience--would be happy to read about it.

-Bill

niel

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

i think it to be a bit of bs mixed in with some obvious facts to make the product seem better than any others. nearly ANY mppt controller will out-do a pwm controller, with bz products as the exception as they have been reported to be junk. i'm not familiar with the brand you specify to say anything about it be it good or bad. mppts will typically give about 10% more current, but that varies given other factors as this could be 0% to even 40% on the extreme. to be sure you know, you will not be needing an mppt controller for one pv. higher voltages than normal would necessitate a downconversion if losses are to be kept down, but there's no need for you to go with a high odd voltage as you can run a normal pwm controller with something like this pv from kyocera.
http://store.solar-electric.com/kyso130wa12v.html
you would get more watts in that space with the kyocera with a bit of room to spare and you won't need the extra expences of the mppt as you're buying more pv power instead. don't get me wrong as i don't knock mppt at all for i have it myself and you could opt for it and it could be used under 17.5v if you desired to do so. my point is you aren't gaining anything with the proposed system you site over what i just pointed out and though i haven't priced your proposed system i suspect you'll get more for less with the kc135 and a standard pwm controller. btw, any controller you purchase should have provision for a battery temperature sensor that you should utilize to better track the charge voltages necessary to properly charge the battery given a battery's temperature and not the controller's or the ambient air temperature.

System2

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

Thanks for the excellent advice and the pointer to that Kyocera 135W panel.

Right now I am likely to go with the MorningStar SunSaver MPPT controller, so I am not tied to 12V optimized panels.

Do you have any other recommendation of a higher voltage panel that would fit my 62" x 30" roof area?

Any pointers towards other panels to consider would be much appreciated.

- Chris // www.technomadia.com

niel

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

"Do you have any other recommendation of a higher voltage panel that would fit my 62" x 30" roof area?"

off hand no. you can look over the pv dimensions yourself as a few may be close to those measurements. be advised that in a downconversion such as 24v to 12v that the current will double in the downconversion from an mppt controller that can downconvert. if the pv is say 5a at 24v it will then go to 10a at 12v and then add a touch more because of the mppt action. i tell you this so that you are aware of how quickly the limits of the controller can be approached though i doubt 1 pv will do that for that controller given that physical area of illumination capability.

BB.

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

Some of the large (~200 watt solar panels) intended for Grid Tie are that large:

BP Solar 195 watt; 66.14” x 32.95”x 1.97” $936 each

Electrical Characteristics2 SX 3195 SX3190
Maximum power (Pmax)3 195W 190W
Voltage at Pmax (Vmp) 24.4 24.3V
Current at Pmax (Imp) 7.96A 7.82A
Warranted minimum Pmax 177.5W 172.9W
Short-circuit current (Isc) 8.6A 8.5A
Open-circuit voltage (Voc) 30.7V 30.6V
Temperature coefficient of Isc (0.065±0.015)%/ °C
Temperature coefficient of Voc -(111±10)mV/°C
Temperature coefficient of power -(0.5±0.05)%/°C
NOCT (Air 20°C; Sun 0.8kW/m2; wind 1m/s) 47±2°C
Maximum series fuse rating 15A
Maximum system voltage 600V (U.S. NEC rating)

You have to compare this against the ratings of the MPPT controller you are thinking of using...

-Bill

niel

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

bill,
i believe he did not want the pv to be larger than the 62x30 inch dimensions he speced and i am having difficulty finding any 24v pvs smaller than that, though a few came close. do note that the controller is rated 200w with a 12v battery so i don't think, as i had said, that he'll find a 24v pv that'll be too much for the controller and still be 62x30 inches or smaller.

Crotalus

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

I am trying to track down a link referred to by “nigtomdaw” on May 26, 2008 at 12.47. The reference is to a scam located at http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=444&highlight=AM100 However I cannot find any references to am100 anywhere in the 5 pages of posts. What post number is the information in? A search retrieved this http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=545&highlight=am100&page=3 But it is a question raised by “mike90045” post 24 on page 3 May 13, 2007 at 22:07 PDT. The next post number 25 is by “niel” at May 14, 2007 at 7:35 PDT. The comment was he could not use it with his controller. No mention of a scam in any way, but would work with a MX60. By doing a search I was able to only find two threads.

This one http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=2931&highlight=am100
This one http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=545&highlight=am100

I am interested in what the scam would be and why it was posted as one. Would anyone know what page and post number in the Scams where I could find the discussion?

Thanks!

BB.

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

I did not see any posts for "am100" in this forum listed in the scam/hype section.

If you run this google search (exactly as typed):

am100 site:wind-sun.com

You will get a hit in the scam section. However it appears to be a false hit on "100 amps"...

-Bill

Crotalus

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

Bill,

nigtomdaw wrote: »

Have a look at this Thread

This is the link I am talking about. It directs you to the Skeptics, Hype, & Scams Corner. However I cannot find any references to the subject. Where are they hiding? What post number should I be looking for?

If you do a GOOGLE search on "am100 site:wind-sun.com" it will bring up this current thread that you are looking at.

I know a couple that have their products and they say that they are very happy with what they bought. I am trying to find what was said about their products.

BB.

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

Don't see why Nigel pointed at that Thread... I looked through the "soft deletes" (there are none) and the edits (nothing related to AM Solar)--So, there may have been a "hard delete" -- but that leaves nothing behind for me to see.

I looked at the first page in Google Cache... Nothing there.

If there was something there--I guess it is long gone.

-Bill

dwh

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

Crotalus wrote: »

Bill,



This is the link I am talking about. It directs you to the Skeptics, Hype, & Scams Corner. However I cannot find any references to the subject. Where are they hiding? What post number should I be looking for?

If you do a GOOGLE search on "am100 site:wind-sun.com" it will bring up this current thread that you are looking at.

I know a couple that have their products and they say that they are very happy with what they bought. I am trying to find what was said about their products.

I searched for both am100 and amsolar and didn't find many mentions. Doesn't look like much was said other than they might be boasting a bit and aren't particularly cheap.

Why?

Windsun

Re: AM100 44 cell panel - any opinions or experiences?

A few months back I did a mass delete of any "scams" posts that had not been active for 24 months or more, on the theory that any scam that had not had a reply in two years was no longer active.

However, the post in question was not so much about the AM100 panel, but the somewhat misleading statements made by the vendor in comparing that panel WITH an MPPT controller to a Kyocera panel WITHOUT an MPPT controller, and claiming that their panel won.