midnite classic

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ws9876
ws9876 Solar Expert Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Can we expect the Midnite products to get a little cheaper in the next couple of years..?? Are there any competitors that have
new controllers coming out that are as good or better??
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: midnite classic

    I don't see Midnite lowering their prices, they are already priced in the same range as inferior Charge Controllers.

    There are controllers that are arguably better in situations, Outback integrate with other Outback products a bit, and the Xantrex XW will handle higher voltages. Rogue will have a smaller 30 amp Controller out soon, and Midnite will introduce their own soon.

    If your planning for a system on down the road, you can keep your eyes open for Northern Arizona Wind and Sun (NAWS)to have a 5% off sale, from time to time. I purchased 2 Classic Lites, on their July 4th sale last year but didn't use them until Dec. NAWS does have the best prices I've seen on Midnite products.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: midnite classic

    Midnite is working on a smaller CC with lower output capability, as I read it on their site.

    As whit said, the Classic line of CCs is the best, by far, for about 80 or 90% of the appications IMHO.

    If integration is very important with an OB or XW system, then perhaps an OB, or possibly the XW SCC. But both of these CCs are a bit dated by now. And the XW 80 Amp High Voltage CC has some applications with its ability to use 450 - 500 V string voltage, but it is a bit expensive ...

    A further opinion is that there is upward pressure on prices for hardware in general. Metals are expensive, and a CC has quite a lot of metal in it. The Classic CC are manufactured in the state of Washington, and labor and overhead is generally getting more expensive almost everywhere.

    Several years ago, MidNite was able to reduce the prices of CCs and all other products that they offer by changing the structure of distribution for the USA (my interpretation ). And again as whit said, N AZ Wind & Sun has very very good pricing on all the MN products.

    The Classic CCs are very capable, and MidNite is aggressive in adding functions to the Classics very often, which makes the Classic a better and better investment the longer you use it.

    Opinions, am just another very happy user of Classics and all the other MidNite products. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: midnite classic
    ws9876 wrote: »
    Can we expect the Midnite products to get a little cheaper in the next couple of years..??

    Midnite actually just increased their prices according to my contact that I buy from. I was able to get another CC at the same price (old stock?), but other components were higher.
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: midnite classic

    You made me do a double take on the price so I went to look on our price page.

    Looks like it hasn't changed, yet, anyway.

    http://www.midnitesolar.com/printPriceList.php#21

    I don't see prices dropping for American made products in the near future, but I certainly hope that isn't the case.

    boB
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  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: midnite classic
    boB wrote: »
    You made me do a double take on the price so I went to look on our price page.
    Looks like it hasn't changed, yet, anyway.

    http://www.midnitesolar.com/printPriceList.php#21

    I don't see prices dropping for American made products in the near future, but I certainly hope that isn't the case.

    boB

    Perhaps the price increases took place a while back and have taken time to trickle through with the new stock? I noticed that some of the prices I paid are exactly the same as on that list (except in Canadian $, which is odd), whilst the CC I was quoted on is considerably less than what's listed on the Midnite price list.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #7
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    Re: midnite classic
    boB wrote: »
    I don't see prices dropping for American made products in the near future, but I certainly hope that isn't the case.

    boB

    boB,

    You want to feed your family every day and pay your employees too? ;) (running a business is always tough--right now in these changing times, it has got to be extremely difficult).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: midnite classic

    If your ready to buy NAWS is having a 10% off sale on Earth Day April 22nd!

    I will need another Classic lite by the end of summer, and I might even try to pick up another on Monday!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: midnite classic
    northerner wrote: »
    Perhaps the price increases took place a while back and have taken time to trickle through with the new stock?

    We have never had a price increase on the Classic. In fact, the Classic 200 list price was dropped to that of the Classic 150 a while back.

    We also introduced the Classic Lite in order to be more competitive with some of the competition and also because some of those
    features, mainly the MNGP LCD remote can be used with another MNGP on the network and save a bit of $$$ there.

    boB
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  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    #10
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    Re: midnite classic

    why does the sizing tool only download a blank pdf form? II enter the numbers, get the result, but the download is a blank PDF
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: midnite classic
    bmet wrote: »
    why does the sizing tool only download a blank pdf form? II enter the numbers, get the result, but the download is a blank PDF


    What PDF viewer are you using ?
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: midnite classic
    boB wrote: »
    What PDF viewer are you using ?

    I have seen some problems with Safari if the actual Adobe PDF viewer plugin is not installed. The result is sometimes a blank page in the browser and a downloaded file which is not a valid PDF.
    It appears to depend in part on what ContentType is declared in the HTTP Response the web server sends.
    And when using the Adobe plugin, I find that I cannot save the (correctly displayed) page directly from the browser and get anything usable. I have to use the save or View in Preview button on the web page itself (visible only when I mouse over the bottom of the page.)
    Not sure if any of these symptoms are related to the OP's issue.
    I would recommend using the actual Adobe Acrobat viewer plugin for whatever browser he is using.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: midnite classic
    boB wrote: »
    We have never had a price increase on the Classic. In fact, the Classic 200 list price was dropped to that of the Classic 150 a while back.

    We also introduced the Classic Lite in order to be more competitive with some of the competition and also because some of those
    features, mainly the MNGP LCD remote can be used with another MNGP on the network and save a bit of $$$ there.

    boB

    Well, that's good to know boB! Perhaps I have been misinformed from my dealer, who orders through a supplier. As mentioned I got a quote for the Classic 150 at the old price (no increase from last year). Other BOS items were higher than last years prices. This is the quote from my contact
    Midnite Solar increased pricing - nothing we can do - unfortunately many websites are not updated.
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  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    #14
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    Re: midnite classic

    I was trying to download using my smartphone. I could try downloading a different browser to see if I got a different result
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: midnite classic
    northerner wrote: »
    Midnite Solar increased pricing - nothing we can do - unfortunately many websites are not updated.


    Was this an online dealer or maybe a distributor ?

    boB
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  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
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    Re: midnite classic
    boB wrote: »
    Was this an online dealer or maybe a distributor ?

    boB

    A Canadian dealer of solar products actually.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
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    Re: midnite classic

    there's that border effect again:grr now it is translating the prices and the words too:blush:
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Robin Gudgel
    Robin Gudgel Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 58 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
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    Re: midnite classic

    Actually your dealer was sort of correct. Jan 1, 2013 MidNite had its first price increase in 7 years! The increase was not on every product and was not on any Classics.
    For those of you wanting a less expensive Classic, we will have the Kid in about 6 months. It should be about 30 amps with a VOC of 120V. It will be stackable up to 2 Kids. It will also do wind and hydro and will also work with the Whiz Bang Jr. We may try to make a 40 amp/60VOC version too if we can get ETL to approve 40 amps through a 30 amp terminal block. That may be a tough sell since the terminal block will only accept a 10AWG wire. Other than this little detail, it will probably do 40 amps for the same price as the 30 amp version (what ever that is)?
    We will want dozens of beta sites. Keep your eyes open here or on the MidNite website for information on a beta test offer. I have a feeling NAWS will be handling a large portion of the beta test program for consumers when we are ready. What that means is that you all can get a special price to be the first adopters of the Kid.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
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    Re: midnite classic

    cool and thanks robin for the opportunity for those here on naws to be first in line. it's nice to know we rate with you as much as midnite rates with us.:D
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #20
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    Re: midnite classic
    Robin Gudgel wrote: »
    we will have the Kid in about 6 months. It should be about 30 amps with a VOC of 120V. It will be stackable up to 2 Kids.

    Very cool :cool: ... I think.... actually, I don't understand what 'stackable' means in the context of charge controllers. Please enlighten.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Volvo Farmer
    Volvo Farmer Solar Expert Posts: 209 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #21
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    Re: midnite classic

    Really? You guys really named one of your products "Whiz Bang Jr"? I think I will have to buy one just so I can put those words in my signature line. That is the coolest name for a product of any kind that I have ever heard. When I grow up I want to be an entrepreneur, so I can name my products cool names like that, and write things like "Been mooned yet?" on my tshirts 8)
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #22
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    Re: midnite classic
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Very cool :cool: ... I think.... actually, I don't understand what 'stackable' means in the context of charge controllers. Please enlighten.

    --vtMaps

    Connected together on one system and sharing data so that they function as a single, larger controller.

    This would be great for the "I want to expand my system in the future" crowd. :D
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #23
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    Re: midnite classic

    What do you get when you 'stack 2 kids'? .... Perish the thought:cry:, holy terrors? :blush:
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #24
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    Re: midnite classic
    westbranch wrote: »
    What do you get when you 'stack 2 kids'? .... Perish the thought:cry:, holy terrors? :blush:

    First, you need bunk beds ...
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #25
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    Re: midnite classic
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Connected together on one system and sharing data so that they function as a single, larger controller.

    So then, this would be different from "follow me" on the classics, where two arrays are used with two controllers on one battery bank. Stacking the kids would mean one array on one battery bank being handled by two kids? Could the kids' inputs be stacked in series, yielding a higher Vmax?

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #26
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    Re: midnite classic
    vtmaps wrote: »
    So then, this would be different from "follow me" on the classics, where two arrays are used with two controllers on one battery bank. Stacking the kids would mean one array on one battery bank being handled by two kids? Could the kids' inputs be stacked in series, yielding a higher Vmax?

    --vtMaps

    Good questions.

    Since I don't work for MidNite we'll have to wait for Bob or Robin for answers.
    Or maybe until the unit comes out because they may not have finished the design yet. :D
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭✭
    #27
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    Re: midnite classic
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Good questions.

    Since I don't work for MidNite we'll have to wait for Bob or Robin for answers.
    Or maybe until the unit comes out because they may not have finished the design yet. :D

    This would mean parallel stacking... Different than Follow-Me that just coordinates charging stages (which is also good).

    Haven't figured out to do series yet. Don't know if it's actually possible except for higher battery voltages using
    2 or more charge controllers. That has been done many times. Not higher input voltage with one single
    array. That would be a job for the XW or the up and coming Morningstar 600V CCs at present.


    boB
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  • Robin Gudgel
    Robin Gudgel Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 58 ✭✭✭✭
    #28
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    Re: midnite classic

    OK, I tried attaching a photo of the WhizBang Jr. Not sure I'm smart enough to pull it off though. If it made it, try to figure out how it works with only one wire?
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #29
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    Re: midnite classic
    Robin Gudgel wrote: »
    OK, I tried attaching a photo of the WhizBang Jr. Not sure I'm smart enough to pull it off though. If it made it, try to figure out how it works with only one wire?
    Looks like a current shunt with some electronics receiving a small Pos current from the one wire. The electronics get their negative through the shunt. Is this part of the upcoming battery monitor? --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #30
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    Re: midnite classic
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Looks like a current shunt with some electronics receiving a small Pos current from the one wire. The electronics get their negative through the shunt. Is this part of the upcoming battery monitor? --vtMaps

    So technically there are three "wires" (two negatives; one on either side of the shunt). But how to get the data to the charge controller?

    Well if that red positive wire connects through a data port it can modulate much the same way as USB does for computer components; receiving enough power to keep the circuit running and sending the data to the controller along the same wire.

    Just guessing, of course.
    And I'm probably the only one who sees the irony here of MidNite equipment being housed in "black boxes". :p
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭✭
    #31
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    Re: midnite classic
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    So technically there are three "wires" (two negatives; one on either side of the shunt). But how to get the data to the charge controller?

    Well if that red positive wire connects through a data port it can modulate much the same way as USB does for computer components; receiving enough power to keep the circuit running and sending the data to the controller along the same wire.

    Just guessing, of course.
    And I'm probably the only one who sees the irony here of MidNite equipment being housed in "black boxes". :p


    You're a pretty smart cooky !!

    Smarty pants !
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