Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

System

http://www.linutop.com/

It certainly wouldn't suit everyone... but thought some of you may be interested

this one is much cheaper at $85US

http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjrsx/index.html

and another

http://www.zonbu.com/

and one that is quite pricy

http://www.aleutia.com/


Posts merged - Windsun

nigtomdaw

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

Interesting but looking at the first one (link) Linutop by the time you have added a Monitor and keyboard your at the same price as a budget laptop, with less funtion or portability and I expect similar power usuage,

It has its market place but I IMHO cant see a advantage in my off grid home over a laptop.

SavingEnergy

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

nigtomdaw,

There actually is an advantage. If you want to monitor solar performance, a "headless" PC, or microcontroller, is the way to go. For example, I run a Systronix TStik TINI board that interfaces with my TS60. It uses .12 amps at 12 volts, or 1.44 watts. Since it runs 24/7, a very low current draw is important. It has no keyboard or display, so I use my PDA to view the data in a browser.

John

nigtomdaw

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

I did say it had its market place, and there will always be applications to justify almost anything, living off grid involves batteries so you need a Battery Monitor first to check your system they are not cheap , being able to monitor your solar sysyem on the internet is cool and I can see where such a product fits in , or remote monitoring data logging yes great, but I was commenting on living off grid and its added expense over a laptop which is so more versatile!

With a laptop you can surf the internet, wirelessly monitor your solar, ring the world for free, watch TV, do your accounts write letters send email ,play games, video calls, sit with it in the garden or the bedroom , in one neat little package ,without any add ons and its portable to boot ! So as a low power PC replacement for your off grid home the unit comes well second best to a Laptop IMHO that was the point I was making,

Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts is misleading, as to be of use versus my laptop it would need a keyboard, mouse,webcam,dvd cd drive, monitor , speakers the list goes on how much power now? and at what cost ? However to allow you to monitor your solar system online sat on its own in the corner great but not cheap, and then dont have a family PC do you. The Laptop is the universal no brainer ...... the other is a niche product. Typed whilst sitting in the sun in the front garden watching the News, on my laptop using its internal battery:p

lamplight

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

those flash based computers are virtually worthless if you want to do anything other than the basics. forget about installing your favorite applications/ customizing, or even significant storage options. one of those had a 486 processor (10+yrs old!!) granted a slimmed down linux os on a flash drive as these are. it does offer all the basics if thats all you need. these are little more than internet stations and have no upgrade path. i like having some notable storage space on my pc, decent processing power, the ability to upgrade some or all of the components, and the applications. if you want a real computer look at via processors, you can get them in desktop or laptops. i use my via based laptop as a headless web/file/application server AND as internet station for my wife, when i want a head i open it
uses about 13-17 watts with the lid closed/monitor off. you can get older ones (and ive run them in desktops) that use even less power (via eden) and are fanless -but i now need the extra speed of the newer processors (via c7-m)

System2

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

If all you do on the computer is use office, surf the web and check your emails... for $85 it's not a bad deal. All you need is a 20watt 15 inch monitor.

Despite all the extra functionality and power laptops provide, I still think people use computers 95% of the time doing the above tasks.

Most laptops nowadays seem to use around 60 watts. This is too heavy for my two battery system. Can anyone recomend a good low power laptop? Any links to my other options?

System2

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

also somewhat related for those who play games

Wii = 16-18watts
XBox360 = 160 watts
PS3 = 320 watts

you won't be playing GTAIV on the Wii, but it's amazingly low powered in comparison to other consoles

lamplight

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

hp has a new one out for around $2500: 12w idle. my via c7-m based laptop im using now uses around 17w. average. more w/screen open of course

narky wrote: »

If all you do on the computer is use office, surf the web and check your emails... for $85 it's not a bad deal. All you need is a 20watt 15 inch monitor.

Despite all the extra functionality and power laptops provide, I still think people use computers 95% of the time doing the above tasks.

Most laptops nowadays seem to use around 60 watts. This is too heavy for my two battery system. Can anyone recomend a good low power laptop? Any links to my other options?

System2

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

Do you know the model number of the HP you are talking about.

I've also been looking at http://eeepc.asus.com/global/ that uses about 22 watts, but isn't much more of a useful computer than the little linux boxes

System2

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

The ACER 4320 laptop I'm using right now, uses 17 to 20 watts, depending on settings.
Paid around $350 Cdn for it on sale.
Wayne

lamplight

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

Hi, sorry for late response didnt have time, then i couldnt find the magazine, mustve given it away already, if found it here:
the hp/compaq on the list had a idle wattage of like 12 watts, this incredible pc magazine article was a dream come true;l they actually measured power usgae of a bunch of pc's in a special green issue in march. i wish theyd do that for all electronics
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2275503,00.asp

yep, ive read detailed rerviews on the eepc: low power, flash, linux, very cool: but its a highly modified linux distribution that was very tricky for the reviwer to install applications on, and most failed. have you looked at the nokia things? they have everything too, pretty neat.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokias-n810-makes-first-appearance-drops-jaws/

BTW: the everex zonbu on that list is similar to what i use for my linux webserver direct off 12v solar powered.(has the ultra low power VIA processors)

narky wrote: »

Do you know the model number of the HP you are talking about.

I've also been looking at http://eeepc.asus.com/global/ that uses about 22 watts, but isn't much more of a useful computer than the little linux boxes

Solar Guppy

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

You can buy things like this on Flebay , just search for "HP thin Client", they sell for about 75 bucks, but you will have to be your own mod to get applications onto it. Come with either some minimal verison of Xp or linux

lamplight

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

unfortunately alot of thin client boards dont always have hard drive connectors, or the flash memory is read only, its taking a risk unless you know speciically the board specs and that it can be modifiable (either with user replaceable flash drive or hard drive).

System2

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

It was a good article. Unfortunatly they only reviewed 5 laptops, would have been more helpful had they reviewed more just for wattage consumption.

Maybe it would be worth making a website or thread that lists the power consuption for different brands and models of things people have in their home... maybe a power wiki.

I can set one up if anyone is interested.

lamplight

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

the magazine article had desktops as well and more info. you might still find it, march issue of pcmag

JDR*energy

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

Solar Guppy wrote: »

You can buy things like this on Flebay , just search for "HP thin Client", they sell for about 75 bucks, but you will have to be your own mod to get applications onto it. Come with either some minimal verison of Xp or linux

Solar Guppy,
Do you think your SC-View software would run on one of these HP thin clients? Looks like a good option for monitoring. I'd hate to waste power runing a PC 24/7 just for statistics. If I could find something <10 watts it would be nice. Still 10W x 24 hrs = 240Wh/day x 30 = 7.2kWh per month. Even 10 Watts adds up quick!

Solar Guppy

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

Don't know ... The hardware should be able to use regular XP ( have read people mod the boxes ) ... but I haven't taken the time to try it out myself

The mother boards look to be Via based generic low power PC's, its just the "disk" is flash based and I haven't looked into what it takes to re-flash it

The project stack is to deep at this point to go further for me ... you can buy a 300mhz laptop on eBay for 30-40 bucks and get similar power savings .. SG/SC-View work fine on old laptops

lamplight

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

ive got an ibm thinclient model 8362 you can have for $20 if you want to experiment. this model doesnt have hard drive connectors and runs linux.

devon IT makes thin clients ive used at customers that have CF hard drives, should be easy to modify, theyre linux vbased but witha CF based flash "hard drive" you might get windows going, thier prices are relatively cheap.

if the software is windows (sounds like it), a newer hp thin client with usb ports might let you run the program off a flash drive if there if the program runs from a simple exe not a full install. the newer hp thin clients arent cheap though!

mini-box.com has a flash hard drive based system i think too. that would be ultra low power if you could get the windows thin client version of the OS installed on that. im not sure if you can buy that outright, ive never seen it for sale.

one of my custs has some older wyse terminals we used, its the windows 3.0 based terminal server client and if it has usb (i forget) they are very cheap on ebay. just some thoughts..

oh, ultra low powered flash based hard drives are coming out now, they are expensive but building a via based system (mini-box.com for parts) with one of those would be sweet.

JDR*energy

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

Thanks for the offer, but until S-G makes a linux version of SC-View , I'll be stuck with windows.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll keep an eye out for a cheap HP thin client, while investigating those other options.

Yes I can't wait until the price of solid state hard drives come down to a reasonable price! That will be great.

mike95490

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

JDR*energy wrote: »

Yes I can't wait until the price of solid state hard drives come down to a reasonable price!

I've done it already.

Using a 120x 8GB CF card, and a laptop 44pin ide adapter.

Booting is a little slow, and the flash card may fade out in a year, but power consumption is way down.

JDR*energy

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

mike90045 wrote: »

I've done it already.

Using a 120x 8GB CF card, and a laptop 44pin ide adapter.

Good Thinking!!

I could never figure out why large CF cards are getting so cheap, but solid state drives are so expensive.. I guess it's because of the speed.

At B&H you can get a 16GB CF card for $199, with a $90 rebate from Sandisk you end up paying only $109!

Wait a minute... I just checked newegg.com.. prices have come down since I looked last.. here they have a 16GB drive for $179.. though that is ExpressCard. Looks like the cheapest IDE is $249, and if you want SATA your up to $315 for 16GB

Solar Guppy

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

Better yet, boot from USB, I got a week ago a 16GB usb stick for 25 bucks on eBay

With either flash ( usb or ide ), make sure you turn off paging in windows!

mike95490

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

It's very important to check the speed rateing on the CompactFlash (CF) Card you order, the one that came in the camera at work, was a 10X. The fast one I bought to use as my C: drive was 150X. That ended up being half the speed of an ordinary IDE drive. In my old laptop, the CF card works fine, but the BIOS does not support footing from USB.

adapter:
http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad44midecf.asp About $30

150X 8GB OEM SAMSUNG COMPACT FLASH CF CARD:
http://stores.ebay.com/fastmemoryman now about $30 shipped

So a slow, 8GB CF drive in your laptop HDD bay - about $60
You have to format and install via a hard drive channel, you CAN NOT do it via a USB adapter.

lamplight

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

$700 for 120mb disk is coming down? ouchy. wish i could get one though..

so far i know laptop hard drives use less power than desktop hard drives
sata drives use less power than ide
flash drives use less than either

have any of you done power measurements on CF cards as a drive vs the new flash hard drives? i'd imagine the faster the speed of the flash the more power used. or the flash hard drives vs anything to see the power drop? im getting the itch to build a new system. (or get one of the expensive flash hard drives as it would be the easiest physical thing to do to swap out with the laptop's sata drive). if i could get my webserver install small enough, which would be a challenge as its a webserver for 2 websites, and a file server for my small business. I wounder if one sata flash hard drive and a CF flash card together would use less power than a sata drive? the sata laptop drive only uses a couple watts, so for larger amounts of storage i dont know if anything else makes sense. if anyone is in position to do power measurements please post!

JDR*energy wrote: »

Wait a minute... I just checked newegg.com.. prices have come down since I looked last.. here they have a 16GB drive for $179.. though that is ExpressCard. Looks like the cheapest IDE is $249, and if you want SATA your up to $315 for 16GB

lamplight

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

still wondering if anyone has used a eepc with the flash drives. was looking at one of the modekls that has 20gb flash drive, i would LOVE to know the powerdraw of the total system with and w/ouyt monitor on if anyone has one pls measure. this promises to be an ultra low pc, but i am not familiar with the processor they use though. w/a 2gb drive you should be able to install your own os if you had other uses for it besides the generic ones they market it for.

BB.

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

Here is another smallish laptop PC that is supposed to be out soon.

MSI Wind review

MSI Wind

The texture of our keyboard is made by the finest materials while the gaps between keys have been enlarged to 17.5 mm for better ergonomics standards. It is both easy to use and physically stress free. The embedded 80 GB memory storage capability so you may take all of your important data on the go. As for software, we chose the familiar Windows operating system as the control console, providing the friendliest environment and functions while using the Wind Notebook.
A Portable Computer Meeting the ECO Energy Saving Standards

Environmental consciousness has always been one of the major principles for MSI Notebook Computers. The MSI Wind Notebook has also applied the MSI NB ECO Energy Saving Standards to extent this year's agenda in helping the environment, paving the way for all future energy-saving notebook computers.

The concept of ECO has been demonstrated exceptionally well on the Wind Series in regards of energy saving. It only takes up 2.5 watts, which is less than 1/10 of the 35 watts used by the Intel Core 2 Duo. The operating time can last up to 6 hours, exceeding far above the 2.5 hours averaged in the notebook computer market. You can be free from the concerns of running out of power ever again.

Not cheap--but about the same price as a low end laptop.

-Bill

System2

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

Dell Mini Inspiron and Acer Aspire One might be also worth looking into.

Dabbler

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

Here's another option to consider. A little more than 8 watts, but a data point for the discussion. I use the Motion Computing m1400 tablet pc. It is currently using 12 watts with the display off, and 16 watts when it's on (measured with a kill-a-watt).

It's a 1.1 GHz low voltage Pentium processor running XP, 60 Gig hard drive, 1.5 GB ram, built in bleutooth, 802.11 wireless, biometric finger print sensor, pen based recognition, etc. They don't make this model anymore, but you can pick them up used for a reasonable price online now. New model is the LE1700, but I have not had one.

My m1400 runs 24 hours a day, connects via USB to a weather station, collecting wind speed, direction, indoor and outdoor temp and humidity, barometric pressure and rainfall, and publishes reports to a web site every 5 minutes, and delivers "realtime" data for those parameters to the same site every 4 seconds, via the built in wireless 802.11 radio. So, it's doing some work, but still uses only 12 watts. That includes keeping the internal battery charged up which provides about 4 hours run time in a power failure.

2manytoyz

Re: Want a computer that uses 5-8 watts

My Toshiba laptop with 15" display draws 40 Watts (measured). Nothing fancy, but very functional.



Bought it in 2004, has been run everyday for many hours. I have a stack of these at work as well. Bought a 17" model for the wife, but don't know the power draw.