equalization of Batteries

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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #32
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    On the C-35 there is a resistor that you can clip and that will give a extra 2 volts ( 17 V ) to the Bulk Range. This would allow you to get what you need. Also the C-35 can be used as a dump load controller, but not both at the same time. I have it clipped on mine because I feed it with a cranked up battery charger I use to equalize with. You'll have to set it with a voltmeter once you clip it, it messes the scale up.

    " If using NiCad or NiFe batteries, the required charging
    voltages may be higher than the designed settings of the
    C-Series controller. Charging voltages can be augmented a
    little, if required. This can be accomplished by clipping the
    wire connecting the R46 Resistor to the circuit board. This
    augmentation will raise the designed charge parameters by
    2 volts for 12-volt systems."
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  • rake1
    rake1 Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    #33
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    Once clipped is that it? In other words no going back if I am not happy putting that much into the batteries? This is only the bulk correct doesn't effect the absorb or float correct. Are you comfortable putting that much voltage into your batteries at all times? Once clipped you are charging at 17v all the time from your array is that OK?
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #34
    Re: equalization of Batteries
    rake1 wrote: »
    Once clipped is that it? In other words no going back if I am not happy putting that much into the batteries?
    You could re-attache it. It sticks up on the board, you could put a switch on it. All it does is give you more adjustment on the setting potentiometer. Instead of stopping at 15 v , it'll go to 17v. On a C-35 the Bulk / Absorb is controlled by one potentiometer and the Float is controlled by a second one. They are independent of each other. Absorb is fixed at 1 Hour. So, you have control, but it's not real sophisticated.

    Attachment not found.
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  • rake1
    rake1 Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    #35
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    isn't that a little much for day to day charging????
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #36
    Re: equalization of Batteries
    rake1 wrote: »
    isn't that a little much for day to day charging????
    Thats not what you do, the Voltage is not fixed, it's adjusted to what you want with the potentiometer, the upper limit is 17 V. Example : you could adjust it to 15.4 v if thats what you wanted.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #37
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    Just to add another bit of confusion:

    Since the C35 is a PWM type controller its output Voltage is also limited by its input Voltage. Most "12 Volt" panels have a Vmp around 17 to 18 Volts, so the controller would not be passing more Voltage than that under charging conditions. Throw some hot panels and line loss in the mix and even though you adjust the controller to the 17 Volt maximum it doesn't mean you'll be able to get that much out as there may be less than 17 Volts available at the controller's input.
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #38
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    Hi rake1,

    It IS important to be able to increase the charge voltage (quite probably), and the Absorb time and so on.

    BUT, am wondering how you are doing on that important measuring tool -- the Hydrometer?? May have missed your recent reference to it. But it is an essential tool to rell you just how you are doing on gettting the SGs up, and just where you want them.

    Do you have a Hydrometer?
    Good Luck, Thanks, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #39
    Re: equalization of Batteries
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Just to add another bit of confusion:

    Since the C35 is a PWM type controller its output Voltage is also limited by its input Voltage. Most "12 Volt" panels have a Vmp around 17 to 18 Volts, so the controller would not be passing more Voltage than that under charging conditions. Throw some hot panels and line loss in the mix and even though you adjust the controller to the 17 Volt maximum it doesn't mean you'll be able to get that much out as there may be less than 17 Volts available at the controller's input.
    Thats true and you could definitely not have enough to Equalize in that upper range.

    I thought he was just trying to get above 15 V, so thats a work around to clip it. I really doesn't effect anything else, just a extra 2 v of headspace.
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #40
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    Bear in mind that the TS will override any too-high voltage from the C35. E.g. if the C35 is configured for absorb at 15V and the tristar is configured for absorb at 14.4V, then when the C35 pushes the battery voltage up to 14.4 and attempts to go towards 15V, the TS will start dumping and keep the battery voltage at 14.4V. So effectively you can use the C35 to adjust voltages that are lower than the TS, but it can't push the battery voltage higher than what is set in the TS.

    They should both be configured for the same voltages and the same interval for performing EQ, if not you could end up with the one controller trying to raise the voltage and the other trying to reduce it. And the TS will always have veto rights on high voltage :)
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #41
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    Restatement :: After re-reading the Results from Clipping that Resistor and Adding the 2 extra Volts you CANNOT get the Float Voltage below 14.5 Volts. this probably makes it a non starer as a charge controller. While not a issue when equalizing, it would be a long term problem. You could put a switch on it, I am sure you'd have to re-adjust everything.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #42
    Re: equalization of Batteries
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    Restatement :: After re-reading the Results from Clipping that Resistor and Adding the 2 extra Volts you CANNOT get the Float Voltage below 14.5 Volts. this probably makes it a non starer as a charge controller. While not a issue when equalizing, it would be a long term problem. You could put a switch on it, I am sure you'd have to re-adjust everything.

    Yes; looks like the Float Voltage couldn't be turned down enough then.

    Someone clever could probably vary that resistor's value and adjust the range just enough to achieve the desired results. But I wouldn't recommend such a procedure to anyone who wasn't incredibly self-assured about handling circuits. :p

    This is one reason why fully-adjustable controllers cost over $500. :roll:
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  • rake1
    rake1 Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    #43
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    So clipping it probably won't work for me as my float will be to high.If on occasion I feel I want more I will have to go direct to the batteries from the array. The ts-60 will override anything over 15v is correct I am trying to switch the ts-60 so I could shut it down if wanted rather than disconnecting it when equalizing with my c35. I assume I have to equalize with the c35 since that is where the power from the array comes to first. Yes I did buy a Hydrometer and checked the new surrettes they were in the white just above the green 1.215 to 1.225 I thought that was low for new batteries. They may not of been full charged from the vender. They did sit for 6 months with no charge. They did charge at 17amp the following day for about 5 hours but not really any change to talk about in the readings.They did drop the previous night to 12.0 so they would probably need a good charge to get them up to full and proper readings.
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #44
    Re: equalization of Batteries
    rake1 wrote: »
    So clipping it probably won't work for me as my float will be to high.If on occasion I feel I want more I will have to go direct to the batteries from the array. The ts-60 will override anything over 15v is correct I am trying to switch the ts-60 so I could shut it down if wanted rather than disconnecting it when equalizing with my c35. I assume I have to equalize with the c35 since that is where the power from the array comes to first. Yes I did buy a Hydrometer and checked the new surrettes they were in the white just above the green 1.215 to 1.225 I thought that was low for new batteries. They may not of been full charged from the vender. They did sit for 6 months with no charge. They did charge at 17amp the following day for about 5 hours but not really any change to talk about in the readings.They did drop the previous night to 12.0 so they would probably need a good charge to get them up to full and proper readings.

    Because FLA batteries tend to have higher self-discharge than AGM, and since the exact lead allow used can also affect self-discharge, the length of time that a fully charged battery can safely be left off charge will vary. But for new FLA batteries to be left off charge for six months is not responsible ownership! Check with Surrette for their take on the situation, but in the meantime charge the batteries up as best you can.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • rake1
    rake1 Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    #45
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    Batteries are in my truck and going back to dealer for some fresh one from Surrette. I have enough concerns with batteries the last while, I am not starting out with one that I am already second guessing.
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  • H2SO4_guy
    H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    #46
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    Interesting idea on the cranked-up charger. I have a Trace C-40 I would like to do something similar, but typical battery chargers are too low of voltage. Can you share what charger you cranked up to feed the C-35 controller and possibly how to raise the voltage to a usable level to control with the C-35? I did ask about hooking several 10 amp chargers in series to the near max of the Midnite Classic 150 and have that work as a battery charger, but was advised against it here.

    Thanks,

    Skip
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
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  • rake1
    rake1 Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    #47
    Re: equalization of Batteries

    We were actually talking about cranking up the c35 itself to 17v so that the array would put the 17v into my batteries. It is designed to except up to 15v but we were talking about cutting the jumper so it would put the 17v into the battery.
    But Blackcherry04 discovered that we couldn't get the float below 14.5 so it ended up being a personal preference if you want your float at 14.5 then can certainly do this. I personally like the idea of occasionally throwing 17v at them in the bulk phase but would like to do it with some type of a switch.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #48
    Re: equalization of Batteries
    H2SO4_guy wrote: »
    Interesting idea on the cranked-up charger. I have a Trace C-40 I would like to do something similar, but typical battery chargers are too low of voltage. Can you share what charger you cranked up to feed the C-35 controller and possibly how to raise the voltage to a usable level to control with the C-35? I did ask about hooking several 10 amp chargers in series to the near max of the Midnite Classic 150 and have that work as a battery charger, but was advised against it here.

    Thanks,

    Skip
    I have 2 IOTA's a 12 V and 24 V. On the circuit board there is a 10 turn potentiometer ( blue in color, rectangular in shape w/ silver adjustment screw ) I can't remember the exact location. Anyway, IOTA's have two voltage outputs, one with the plug in the jack and one without. On the 12 V it's 13.4 v and 14.2 v. You can crank it up to about 15.5 V with the plug in and with a DVM on the output. When you do it will also raise the lower voltage the same ratio. With the 15.5 will give enough to Equalize with the C-35. With the 24 V you get about 32 Volts. The charger / Power converter will work as normal, just a higher output and is controlled by the C-35.

    The IOTA's are the plain models without the IQ4 built in.

    Disclaimer , if your not qualified, don't try this at home. Works perfect for me.
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