Magnum charging profile

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #32
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Having good quality meters is great--But even though I can afford one, I am still too cheap as the little amount I would use it does not justify the expense.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    #33
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    vtmaps wrote: »
    yes, this thread did get hijacked. --vtMaps

    The "constant current" portion of the graph looks more like a PV sunrise. (a very linear sunrise):roll:

    -Alex
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #34
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    -Alex,

    Think that you have correct ... tried to add that comment yesterday but the Net was down for me ... That graph is typical Bulk V and I for off-grid PV systems with good to fairly good view of the sun in the AM.

    The terminology is typical descripiton for grid driven chargers ,, Constant Current, Constant Voltage etc.

    Bo, thanks for adding the sig line -- this helps. More later, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    #35
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    While we're picking nits;

    Shouldn't the DC current go to -0- after Absorb, before the voltage falls to the Float setting. After it falls to the Float set point, the current will resume at a lower level.

    I had a customer see this happen and think that her equipment was malfunctioning. She could not figgure out why her battery amp meter showed that the batteries were discharging when they first went into Float stage. With no loads, it could be several minutes before incomming current was required to maintain Float voltage.


    -Alex
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #36
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    I think the end of absorb can be set at ~1-2% of the battery bank's rated AH capacity (200 AH would see 2-4 amps at the end of the absorb cycle).

    Switching to Float, I can see the battery supplying power to loads a little bit as the battery drops from ~14.5 volts (absorb setting) to 13.x volts (float setting).

    Of course, there is the problem that the battery bank may still be taking 1-2% current during the end of absorb, but it you have other DC loads (pumps, lighting, radio, etc.), those will add to the apparent consumption as seen by the charge controller--Hence why many charge controllers have some sort of absorb timer alternative to terminating charging too.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #37
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    SolaRevolution wrote: »
    While we're picking nits;

    Shouldn't the DC current go to -0- after Absorb, before the voltage falls to the Float setting. After it falls to the Float set point, the current will resume at a lower level.

    I had a customer see this happen and think that her equipment was malfunctioning. She could not figgure out why her battery amp meter showed that the batteries were discharging when they first went into Float stage. With no loads, it could be several minutes before incomming current was required to maintain Float voltage.


    -Alex

    In theory, yes the current should drop to zero. In practice, don't count on it. It should be very low (with no loads) though.
    A battery's resting Voltage is lower than the Float Voltage, so even during Float some current will flow to the battery to keep the Voltage up.
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  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    #38
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    A battery's resting Voltage is lower than the Float Voltage, so even during Float some current will flow to the battery to keep the Voltage up.

    I was referring to the time it takes while the battery voltage is falling from the Absorb voltage to the Float voltage. If there are no loads, and the inverter's idle current + other phantom loads are small enough, it can take several minutes for this to happen. If loads are drawing power, this will typically happen much faster. It is possible that the charge controller will still be putting out current while the battery voltage will still be decreasing. Of course this will depend on such things as how responsive the CC is and how steady the loads are...

    Also, as Bill was pointing out, ideally the battery current at the end of the absorb cycle should be the same as the float current. (Finish/ending Amps) Terminating the Absorb stage based on ending amps is a setting that requires the ME-ARC. (The"Advanced" version). The ME-RC can only be adjusted for absorb time or on a time setting based on the programmed battery capacity. (Different firmware versions)

    -Alex
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #39
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Alex,

    Speaking of nits.

    You cannot be saying that the Battery Charge Current at the end of Asorb is ideally also the battery Float current. Sure not even close at all in my systems.

    Net batt charge current is about 14 Amps going INTO the batts at Asorb end, and nom Net Float current is about 1 -- 2 Amps.

    There are some variables, of course, and battery temp could also be a factor.

    Mileage does vary. picking over ... Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #40
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    The "constant current" portion of the graph looks more like a PV sunrise. (a very linear sunrise):roll:

    -Alex
    Vic wrote: »
    -Alex,

    Think that you have correct ... tried to add that comment yesterday but the Net was down for me ... That graph is typical Bulk V and I for off-grid PV systems with good to fairly good view of the sun in the AM.

    The terminology is typical descripiton for grid driven chargers ,, Constant Current, Constant Voltage etc.

    Bo, thanks for adding the sig line -- this helps. More later, Vic


    This might be the case for a solar charger but this graph is from an Inverter/Charger charging from grid or a generator. The ramp up time should be seconds, not minutes or hours.

    As for current falling to 0 when transitioning from Absorb to Float, if there are NO loads other than the battery, Yes, charger current will fall to zero until the surface charge goes away and the
    Inverter/Charger (or solar or wind etc.) again has to give the batteries a bit of current to keep the voltage at the Float voltage.

    boB
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  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    #41
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    Inverter/Charger (or solar or wind etc.) again has to give the batteries a bit of current to keep the voltage at the Float voltage.
    Float on my 940 ah traction battery runs around 2 amps to the battery. All batteries should draw a little current once in float.
    My neighbor just bought and installed a Magnum MS2012 and I can't find any way the change the battery charge voltages from their default for a 12 volt battery. I would like his float to be at 13.8, bulk to be at 14.8 and eq to be at 16 volts for his battery bank. Does any one have a clue how to change these basic charge voltages, or is he just stuck with their default values? All I can change is absorb time and absorb current which his remote.
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #42
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Yea boB, missed the "linear" curve. Guess that it would be a Sinusoid for PV with a perfectly clear view of the sun.
    Mike, I know nothing of the Magnum inverter/chargers. Good luck, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    #43
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    Vic wrote: »
    Alex,

    Speaking of nits.

    You cannot be saying that the Battery Charge Current at the end of Asorb is ideally also the battery Float current. Sure not even close at all in my systems.

    Net batt charge current is about 14 Amps going INTO the batts at Asorb end, and nom Net Float current is about 1 -- 2 Amps.

    There are some variables, of course, and battery temp could also be a factor.

    Mileage does vary. picking over ... Vic

    Yea, I had one of those "duh" moments after I posted this. The higher the you are trying to maintain the voltage, the more current will be required.

    -Alex
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #44
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Alex, Actually, I occasionally have non-duhhhhh moments ... but only on occasion ... am reminded constantly.
    Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #45
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Mikeo. You need the ME-RCremote control to change anything on the inverter. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #46
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    mikeo wrote: »
    Float on my 940 ah traction battery runs around 2 amps to the battery. All batteries should draw a little current once in float.
    My neighbor just bought and installed a Magnum MS2012 and I can't find any way the change the battery charge voltages from their default for a 12 volt battery. I would like his float to be at 13.8, bulk to be at 14.8 and eq to be at 16 volts for his battery bank. Does any one have a clue how to change these basic charge voltages, or is he just stuck with their default values? All I can change is absorb time and absorb current which his remote.

    I think that with that inverter/charger, you can change the battery "type" and then you will have another voltage option or two.
    AGM, GEL, Flooded, etc. Magnum did add a "custom" choice where you could adjust the charge voltage to what you want to,
    but I'm not sure if the MS2012 has that feature or not. That may only be for the higher voltage units or maybe even
    just the AE inverters. Even then, I believe you will need their fancy new RC remote to do that.

    It's been a while now since I've played with a Magnum inverter except for simple On/Off stuff.
    boB
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #47
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    I have the MS-AE 4024 and know for sure you need the remote for them. In the overview section of my remote manual, It states. The ME-RC remote is used on all Magnum models ME, MM, MMS, MM-AE, MS-PAE and RD series. You need the remote to monitor and customize the operating parimeters for the magnum charger inverter. So I take it that you need the remote. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    #48
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    You need the remote to monitor and customize the operating parameters for the magnum charger inverter. So I take it that you need the remote.
    In my post I mentioned that I could change some parameters from the remote, but no custom settings for charge voltages could be found. Only the defaults that is set by the battery type. So I guess the answer is no, you just have to take what they give you for a generalized battery bank. That seems to be a bit of a drawback to me as it would have been so easy to add in their firmware so that these parameters could be adjusted for aging battery banks and different base SG levels used in some LA batteries.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #49
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    mikeo wrote: »
    In my post I mentioned that I could change some parameters from the remote, but no custom settings for charge voltages could be found. Only the defaults that is set by the battery type. So I guess the answer is no, you just have to take what they give you for a generalized battery bank. That seems to be a bit of a drawback to me as it would have been so easy to add in their firmware so that these parameters could be adjusted for aging battery banks and different base SG levels used in some LA batteries.
    With the Xantrex SW 2000 & SW 3000 ( pretty much the same inverter ) the OEM Preset / Custom settings can be changed by the Service center with their software. I am unclear if the change is in the SPC or in the Inverter it's self. I'd contact Magnum, maybe all you have to do is send the remote in and they can do it.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #50
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Mikeo In the battery type menu go to custom. i think that is what you are looking for. There you sett the charge parimeters and in next menu that is called charge rate. :Dsolarvic:D Hope I understand that is what you are looking for. I read your original post and the info I gave you is correct. Just play arounf with the remote, not too hard to figure out.
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  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    #51
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Some older versions of the ME-RC do not have "Custom" as an option for battery type.
    A remote can be updated with the latest firmware if you send it in to Magnum.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #52
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Again, I don't have a Magnum, but in the Xantrex the setting's must be on the system board firmware on the Inverter. You can plug the same remote ( SPC ) into two different inverters and the menu's will be different and the changes you can make are different. When you plug the remote in, it will Identify the Inverter you have and that model shows up on the system version. All the 100's of settings that are on the Remote's Owners Manual just aren't there. What you see on the remote is just a mirror of the system board variables.

    I asked the tech at the service center in a passing conversation about making changes and he said to bring the unit in, but I was unclear about what unit he was talking about, I am thinking he must have meant the Inverter.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #53
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Blackcherry. We are talking about a MAGNUM INVERTER, NOT AN XANTREX. I actually have and use a MAGNUM INVERTER, so know a few things about it. Since solarevulation has a good point and has experience with Magnum I feel he knows a little about Magnum too. He answered a couple questions I had when I first got my Magnum about AC coupling. There is a button on the remote called tech. You can find there what revision the remote has. My remote is revision 2.63 and has these custom settings we talked about. . If mikeo cant find the custom battery setting on his remote then he needs to check revision number and call Magnum and see if the revision for the remote needs updated. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #54
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    solarvic wrote: »
    Blackcherry. We are talking about a MAGNUM INVERTER, NOT AN XANTREX. I actually have and use a MAGNUM INVERTER, so know a few things about it. Since solarevulation has had experience with Magnum I feel he knows a little about Magnum too. There is a button on the remote called tech. You can find there what revision the remote has. My remote is revision 2.63 and has these custom settings we talked about. . Solarvic
    What Model do you Have ?? Do you have a MS2012 ?? Do you know what settings it has ??
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #55
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    What Model do you Have ?? Do you have a MS2012 ?? Do you know what settings it has ??

    I don,t have the Ms2012, Do You? I have the ms4024-AE and feel that a magnum remote probably doesn,t work on an xantrex inverter but will work on a magnum inverter. This inverter is even newer than mine so preety sure the remote should be up to latest revisions as it came with the inverter. According to my manual they made the same remote for all the magnum inverter series lines so there is no cross-platform confusion. Again, This is Magnum, not xantrex. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #56
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    solarvic wrote: »
    I don,t have the Ms2012, Do You? I have the ms4024-AE and feel that a magnum remote probably doesn,t work on an xantrex inverter but will work on a magnum inverter. This inverter is even newer than mine so preety sure the remote should be up to latest revisions as it came with the inverter. According to my manual they made the same remote for all the magnum inverter series lines so there is no cross-platform confusion. Again, This is Magnum, not xantrex. :Dsolarvic:D
    No, I don't have a MS 2012 and have said so 3 times in this thread. I do have a friend with a MS 2812 and the remote ( less than a year old ) and is has no " custom " settings for battery type.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #57
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Will wait and see if Mikeo finds the custom setting. I have Pm him and gave him all the info he needs to see if he can find the custom settings for his neighbors inverter. It was recently purchased from our sponsors so should be up to date. Snce I dont have the particular ms-2012 I can,t say for sure that it has the custom feature but I don,t see why they would leave that feature out. I didn,t notice it at first even though the manual points it out on page 12 table 3-3 of the remote manual. Would I use a chevy owners manual to ask questions about my dodge truck? It seemed that when I was trying to help someone with thier magnum you were clouding up the info and comparing it to what xantrex does. What is revelent to xantrex probably isn,t revelant to Magnum is the point I was trying to raise. I know the outputs of the different magnum models are different but think (only guessing) that the voltage settings are the same for all the inverters relative to what voltage they are using. The remote is good to use on all Magnum inverters.
    :Dsolarvic:D
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #58
    Re: Magnum charging profile
    SolaRevolution wrote: »
    Some older versions of the ME-RC do not have "Custom" as an option for battery type.
    A remote can be updated with the latest firmware if you send it in to Magnum.


    This may require the "ADVANCED" RC... or the ME-ARC

    http://magnumenergy.com/Products/ME-ARC.htm


    I am unaware of newer software for the ME-RC but that may very well fit the bill as well here.




    PS... From page 24 of the ME-ARC manual...

    3.0 Setup
    03B Battery Type - Used to select the battery type, which determines
    the battery charge profi le and ensures the batteries are receiving the proper
    charge voltage. The fi xed voltage selections are GEL (for Gel batteries),
    Flooded (for liquid lead acid batteries), AGM 1 (for Lifeline AGM batteries),
    and AGM 2 (for East Penn/Deka/Discover/Trojan AGM batteries). The
    ‘Custom’ selection allows the Float and Absorb charge voltage settings to be
    individually adjusted. See Table 3-3 to determine the specifi c charge voltage
    based on the Battery Type selected.

    Custom4
    12 VDC 12.0-16.0 VDC 12.0-16.0 VDC 15.0-16.0 VDC
    24 VDC 24.0-32.0 VDC 24.0-32.0 VDC 30.0-32.0 VDC
    48 VDC 48.0-64.0 VDC 48.0-64.0 VDC 60.0-64.0 VDC

    Note 4: requires inverter with enabled software to operate.

    So, maybe only some inverters allow this adjustment. I'm pretty sure that all of the "AE" versions do.

    boB
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #59
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    Bob You might be right about the Me-ARC remote that is more advanced to use with magnums Generator start kit and the magnum battery monotor. The basic less cost remote control ME-RC is the one I was refering to. The ME-RC remote is the one that our forum sponser is or was giving to anyone who bought new magnum inverters. The ME-RC manual has the same table 3-3 as the manual you displayed in your post but doesn,t Have the note about inverter software. I hope Mickeo or someone else lets us know if they get the ME-RC remote work in the custom battery menu. Vicko
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  • bbbuddy
    bbbuddy Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭✭
    #60
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    I know this thread has been dead for a bit, but wanted to add for informational purposes that I had a Magnum 2012 plus ME-RC, and yes it did have the custom setting, in fact I used it to change the "default" setting for my batteries.

    Inverter was dated from 2nd quarter, 2008, I'm guessing the ME-RC did too as I bought them together used from a previous owner.
    Magnum4024PAE, 2 Midnite Classic 150s, 3100watts solar, 432ah lifepo4 battery.  Off grid since 2004.
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  • kellystalker
    kellystalker Registered Users Posts: 1
    #61
    Re: Magnum charging profile

    I have been having problems with my Magnum inverter. I have 2024PAE version and out of the blue all of the default settings have changed to what appears to be 12V settings. I didn't even know that was possible. Is there a menu or setting I haven't come across yet that specifies a 24v system.

    Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.

    Kelly
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