Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

13

Comments

  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Unfortunately I think The UK is going the way of the USA,,, my oldest is an UK certified electrician and he pays a fortune to be on top of code so he can then fail your installation to make a fortune on your code failure, Love leckys I do my son is one !:confused:
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?
    nigtomdaw wrote: »
    Unfortunately I think The UK is going the way of the USA,,, my oldest is an UK certified electrician and he pays a fortune to be on top of code so he can then fail your installation to make a fortune on your code failure, Love leckys I do my son is one !:confused:


    I would love to see the UK code ! :D

    boB
  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    bob 2 keep things in perspective in UK we have no wind no sun but a great sausage (no meat in them thats why they tastes fab :p) ,,,,,, Seriously though, although were meant to be The Common Europe differences are vast, in UK our mains sockets which are usually individually switched are wired on a ring main the the live protected by MCB,s only in Spain they dont use ring mains only radial circuits and use MCB's on the live and neutral wires, for each radial and there mains sockets are un switched. (Domestic Wiring)
  • GreenerPowerGreenerPower Solar Expert Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?
    BB. wrote: »
    Quote:Battery Circuit

    The DC-rated fuse or circuit breaker between the battery and the XW Solar Charge Controller must have a maximum size of 1.25 × 60 A (the maximum current rating of the XW Solar Charge Controller). That is, the fuse or circuit breaker must be rated equal to or above 75 A.
    A bit of confusion in the manual... Maximum would be never exceed 75 amps. Equal or above would mean how high? 80A? 100A? This is where one needs to read the NEC (don't have) and see what it requires (round up? round down? use a higher temperated insulation to allow larger breaker?)
    I found several errors like this in Wiles articles (PV Best Practices). The calculated amperage value for wires is for minimum carrying amperage whereas the value for circuit breaker is maximum value allowed. When you lump these 2 together, that's where confusion arises.
    690.8 (B1) wrote:
    - The circuit conductors and over curent devices shall be sized to carry not less than 125 percent ...
    This is certainly Wiles mistakes carrying into the NEC text. The next sentence is correct when refering to 240.4
    The rating or setting of overcurrent devices shall be permitted in accordance with 240.4(B) and (c)
    240.4 (B) wrote:
    The next higher standard overcurrent device rating (above the ampacity of the conductor being protected) shall be permited to be used ...
    This indicates the breaker value is maximum allowed. 240.4(B) makes acception to bump up to the next higher available breaker size.
    For breaker, you can always use smaller breaker than the value calculated as long as it doesn't cause nuisance trip, the wire is still protected. It doesn't make sense to use the calulated value as the minimum breaker size i.e. calculated 1.25*60A = 75A and use 100A breaker (100A breaker doesn't protect 75A wire).
    GP
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 907 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Off topic but...boB, your previous avatar freaked me out, but this new one makes me feel positively paranoid, knowing you're always there...watching me!

    Ralph
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?
    Ralph Day wrote: »
    Off topic but...boB, your previous avatar freaked me out, but this new one makes me feel positively paranoid, knowing you're always there...watching me!

    Ralph

    I know when you've been naughty or nice, So be good for goodness sake !

    boB:D
  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Can anyone expand on Avatars ?:confused:
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?
    nigtomdaw wrote: »
    Can anyone expand on Avatars ?:confused:

    The Avatar is your personal ID picture that appears in the upper left corner of the message. Like this...
    [IMG]file:///C:/boB/nigtomdawAvatar.jpg[/IMG]
  • timtim Registered Users Posts: 20
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    My xw will not self start, have to go in and hit reset for it to work. Any help appreciated.

    Tim:confused:
  • crewzercrewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Tim,

    Tell us more about your PV energy system:

    1) Array configuration [i.e., six ES-180 modules wired 2 (in series) x 3 (in parallel)]
    2) Battery bank specs
    3) General location and environment (i.e., morning shade from trees?)

    The more info you can provide about your system and its environment, the better. I see you've also posted over on the Xantrex forum.

    Regards,
    Jim / crewzer
  • timtim Registered Users Posts: 20
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Thank for the reply crewser

    2 in series 3 in parallel
    510 ah 24 volt DR2424
    no shade after 7:00 am got 7 kwh yesturday


    Regards
    Tim
  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    OP, Looking on with interest ;)
  • crewzercrewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Tim,

    Based on the ES-180’s STC specs, your 2 X 3 array specs should be as follows:

    Voc: 65.2 V
    Vmp: 51.8 V
    Isc: 20.85
    Imp: 23.34 A
    STC Power: 1,080 W

    Considering the array size and voltage specs, this configuration should work just fine with your XW controller and a 24 V (nominal) battery bank. Operationally, the XW should wakeup on its own once the array voltage exceeds the battery voltage by some nominal amount.

    I’m afraid that you may well need some expert assistance from Xantrex on this issue. Hopefully, you’ll get some response to your post on the Xantrex forum

    This Xantrex forum thread is interesting, as the poster’s array size and congiration (1,020 W STC, 48 V / 24 V) is similar to yours. Note the following comment:
    The unit powered up at 6:30 am and spent 5 minutes on-line trying to decide if there was enough light. By 6:45 the unit was on for the day producing about 15 watts. As above the unit ramped up to 100 watts 30 minutes later and hit its peak of 850 watts with an 876 watt input.
    Best of luck,
    Jim / crewzer
  • timtim Registered Users Posts: 20
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    crewzer
    That should be 3x2 instead of 2x3. Still no exceeding the recomened voltage. I have seen 1421 watts 50.2 amps ( snow, cold). If not woke up the most it will put out is 54 watts.

    Regards
    Tim
  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    How cold?

    Oh, what do you mean by reseting the unit, the XW doesn't have a reset, are you power cycling the unit? and when the XW is only producing 54 watts, what is the charger/battery state, IE is the unit in float mode? the Charger can only produce energy if there is a load for the energy to go into. When the XW is first turned on it will go into Bulk so maybe there is some issue with your loads and the XW's Float to Bulk transition?

    What is the reported Array Voltage ( enable scrolling on the LCD to see all the input/output Voltage/Amps/Power and charger status

    7kWh from a 1.2kW array is outstanding ... to the point I'm wondering if your VOC is higher that you think ( very cold = higher VOC )

    If the VOC is OK, and the unit is in Bulk Charge then I would say contact customer service via the 800 number for help. Xantrex Customer Service does not monitor their forums
  • crewzercrewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    OK. Here are the new numbers for a 3 X 2 array:

    Voc: 97.8 V
    Vmp: 77.7 V
    Isc: 13.9 A
    Imp: 15.56 A
    STC Power: 1,080 W

    Allowing for the NEC’s 125% TCF for very cold weather (-40 C / -40 F), the array Voc shouldn’t be above 97.8 V x 125% = 122.25 V, which is well within the XW’s limits. Going by the specs, this shouldn’t be an issue.

    Regards,
    Jim / crewzer
  • timtim Registered Users Posts: 20
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    The unit give a reference voltage of 117 volts,and yes it does have a reset to factory defaults. I've tried it on two and three stage .Most usually when it is producing 54 watts it is in bulk or asorb.

    Regards
    Tim
  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    OK, its not a reset button, you commanding a reseting of the units parameters back to factort defaults .. so something your changing is causing the performance loss your reporting

    What do you have the battery size set to in ah? in the XW setup, to small a value will lower the allowed battery current.

    If the unit is in absorb, that means the batterys are near fully charged and the XW can only produce what the voltage limit is allowing, IE @ 28.8V the batterys will only draw the current needed, not what the charger can harvest from the array

    So what exactly are you changing once the unit has been restored to factory defaults and when the unit is producing 54 watts, please record the following:

    Array: Voltage, Current, Wattage
    Battery: Voltage, Current, Wattge
    Charger: State ( Bulk ect )
    Charger Parameters: Charging current limit
    Battery Size: aHr rating entered into the XW

    Please gather all the information, not just one or two, set the display to scrolling and you won't have to cycle thru the menus

    By the limited information, I would say you batterys are full and the unit is limited to what charging current is available. Restoring the factory defaults will restore the charger paramters to defaults, like battery size which the XW uses to determine maximum charger rate, the charging voltage and nomial battery voltage ( 12/24 ect ). So with the above information I can tell you which setting is limiting the controllers output OR you will see the battery bank is full ... again please record ALL the information at once when its in the state your inquiring about

    Also, do you have the tempature compensation enabled and the BTS connected?, for cold weather, that batterys need a much higher voltage and without the BTS the charger will think the batterys are charged when they are not

    Also, can one of the mods, split this off into its own thread , will help others in the future
  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Another few questions to possibly help.

    1. At what time were you resetting the XW, just after sun rise or near solar noon.
    2. Is the XW an upgrade controller if so what was the previous controller ? Or is the XW part of this original solar setup.?
    3. Over night loads ie when solar charging has finished what are your loads b4 the start of the next solar day?
    4. After a manual reset to wake up the controller what sort of power harvest are you getting at the end of the solar day ?

    Coincidently, The default factory settings for battery configuration on the XW60 are 440 ah flooded, (Tims stated he has a 510 ah battery bank) so a factory default reset would bring them fairly close, Tim are u altering the battery bank capacity to a new value ? if so what ?

    HTH
  • timtim Registered Users Posts: 20
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    array - vol amp watts
    27.8 10.3 281
    charger state- asorb
    battery size 510 ah
    input voltage amp watts
    75.4 4.0 303

    The only thing that i'm changing is the battery ah. From 440 to 510
  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    OK,

    "Array" should be "Battery" in your readings, btw,

    Your charger is in Absorb, this means its the XW is Constant voltage charge, current is dependant on the battery SOC ( state of charge ) and the unit is NOT in mppt mode. and only 10 amps into the battery bank would indicate the batterys are very close to 100% SOC this looks OK

    For the unit to mppt, the charger must be in the bulk state, this will only happen if the batterys are discharged and or there are loads on the battery bank.

    The only odd value I see is that your battery voltage is 27.8V , 28.8v would be an standard for LeadAcid , do you have a BTS connected? or did you miss type the battery voltage? If the BTS is connected, what is the actual tempature? 27.8v would indicate some really hot batteries?

    The only thing changing the ah from 400 to 510 is effect the transistion from absorb to float, I beleive its 2.5% of the ah value, so absorb to float would happen at 12.5 amps instead of 10amps ( default )

    When the unit is in the state you call "not wake up" ( 54 watts ), reports all of the same values and I can provided more guidance
  • timtim Registered Users Posts: 20
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Got these new numbers
    output volts 26.5 amps 2.3 watts 57 input volts 93.1 amps 2.3 watts 216
    absorb charging battery temp 16 c limit 60 amps ah 510. When i reset it this morning it went up to 1042 watts and 39 amps

    Regards
    Tim
  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Read your manual, pages 1-5, 1-6 and 3-7

    What looks to be happening is unit is properly going from bulk charge to absorb and for the charger to exit this mode and return to bulk, the Recharge Voltage Threshold must happen, it is not happening, so the unit stays in absorb.

    Page 3-7 showes the default value is 25V, both of your readings was above this value. Change this to a higher value, since you have a large battery bank and would appear you keep the SOC near fully charged, I would select 26.5V, this is above the resting voltage of a fully charged battery bank.

    Let us know if this resolves your issue
  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Something doesnt add up here !

    24v 510 ah hour battery bank isnt that big, yet overnight his batteries fail to drop below 25 v to force a bulk charge, then he resets and then gets over 7kwh of solar input.

    To get 7kwh of solar input at a nominal 24 v equates simply to 291 amp hours and roughly 57% dod no way can the battery be at 26.5 volts. or even 25v more likely below 23v !

    I could understand a no load overnight battery bank needing 0.7 kwh to top up but Im still not satisfied with whats going on :confused:

    I have a large IMHO 2100 ah 24v battery bank (4x Tims) at 15 % DOD it takes over 10 kwh of solar to bring it back to 100 % and under load over night with a mere 15% discharge the batteries are around 24.2 volts when the sun pops its head up !.

    As I said something doesnt add up !:confused:
  • timtim Registered Users Posts: 20
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    nigtomdaw

    I'm still grid tied . On it last night trying to get things sorted out.

    Regards
    Tim
  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    nigtodaw, Thats why I just ask for the battery/array/state values ... they just tell it like it is and have no assumptions of use

    Tim, an update with some details on your system and its use would be nice if this resolves your issue
  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Hmmm, guys grid tied so what , but can still accept 7kwh of solar into his 510 ah battery bank,


    Sos SG but the maths isnt gellin, sorry dont u have questions over this..... grid tie is a red herring non starter, Tim never replied to my previous post over night loads,

    How can a 510 ah bb take or soak up 7kwh of solar with a morning BB voltage of over 25 v .

    This is becoming laughable or Im an idiot !

    OK Im probably an Idiot:cool:

    Butt Im not !:grr
  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Niel, CreeZer, BB, boB wesbranch, Mr Vic, all other mates on this forum take a time to look at this, Im a diehard Xantrex fan but SG is off the plot with this I expect new gear to have Blips hell the MX 60 still burps a bit 5 years on, SG come on mate the maths is not gellin and u know it, the new XW will be a fanastic addition to RE NEW able life but dont hide Tims problems. F Fs:grr
  • timtim Registered Users Posts: 20
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    I ran it up to 27 volt would this be to much , that is the upper limit.Also the day that it put out 7 kwh (and that was not yesturday only put 1.6)the woman was washing clothes most of the day.have cupple days at 6500 kwh this with tracking by hand. And yes i do use most of it daily with frezzer ref. two tv and one computer and other incendetals light, washer ,dish washer etc.
    Regards
    Tim
  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW60 CC MPPT any feedback Yet ?

    Tim my head hurts, I Iike my american friends but Im gettin pissed ovr this
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