I'm diving into Grid Tie

autoxsteve
autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
Well, I'm diving into a solar grid tie system. 22 Evergreen 190W panels, a Fronius 4kW inverter and all of the associated additional items.

I should be online in late April. More to come as I'm extremely excited about doing the right thing.

Thanks to all of you for your help in educating me in making this decision!
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Comments

  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    Congrats on your decision, we do expect weekly updates with pics:D:D
    This time next year I maybe doing the same thing depending on how well my off-grid test system does this summer.
  • Roderick
    Roderick Solar Expert Posts: 253 ✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    How exciting! Take pictures of EVERYTHING!
  • t12zh
    t12zh Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    I asked the people down the street what there 12k system cost and they told me that the instalation was 16 thousand.
    Spent way too much on the roof inside to put the 12 pannels up.
    Aquila power co here in pueblo colorado gave them a rebate of 10 thousand.
    They said tax's will give them anouther 2k.
    so they have a grid tie batteryless system for 4k
    Just info i found out about i thought might help you.
    Greg
  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    Thanks for the info on that system. Technician came out last Fri and did the site survey. He indicated that the roof layout for solar panels is ideal (other than spanish tile). I should have plans to review in about a week or so, with an install coming as soon as mid March...

    More to come...
  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    ok. Things are going to start happening FAST.

    Since my last post (signed docs on Feb 5) REC Solar has:

    - submitted rebate paperwork. SCE is in process of reviewing rebate info and no problems are expected.

    - performed a site survey
    - developed, delivered for my approval and submitted plans for the install to the city
    - City approved and issued permit
    - checked stock on product (racking, panels, inverter, etc) - all in stock
    - contacted me to inform me that installation can occur as soon as next Tue or Wed for sure (they will call me Fri to confirm date)

    I've got some work to do prior to that. I need to move some equipment in the garage from the wall where the inverter will go so they can install everything (tv, telephone, bench grinder, tennis ball machine, other junk). I also need to discover how to make a web page to place pics of the install for you all to see.

    I am very excited that in 10 days I'll have the capability to generate more power than I may consume.

    I'll be home during construction and will take pictures.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie
    autoxsteve wrote: »
    I also need to discover how to make a web page to place pics of the install for you all to see.

    Feel free to plagiarize my site.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    They're here....

    today REC Solar appeared and started the install on my home's solar system.

    Today they:

    installed 28 Z angle brackets onto the roof (underneath the S tiles),

    installed 15 of the 28 threaded stainless rods (they rise up from the Z angle brackets, thru the S tiles)

    Discovered that the conduit and wiring from the panels to the inverter can be routed thru the attic and into the garage (big time saver and also makes shorter run)

    Started routing conduit from Garage into attic (vertical rigid conduit goes straight up along side water heater exhaust vent).

    Dropped off inverter, dc disconnect box, and some other hardware

    Tomorrow's plans are to:

    1) complete roof install of threaded rod
    2) install racking equipment on roof
    3) install conduit and run wiring from garage up to roof and install whips (wiring from roof junction box to each panel)
    4) possibly moiunt inverter and other equipment in garage
    5) drop off panels

    There's a decent chance that this entire install could be completed Fri. We shall see.....

    More tomorrow on progress and excitement!
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie
    Discovered that the conduit and wiring from the panels to the inverter can be routed thru the attic and into the garage (big time saver and also makes shorter run)

    You want to make SURE the system Lighting grounding, does NOT go inside your roof. Keep Lighting grounds outdoors. Or what ever city codes say you need to do.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    he may not have a choice because of wiles' ruling for the nec on the matter.
  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    Well, today was another most excellent day for progress!

    Today (with three guys - one of them a rookie/helper) they:

    1) completed roof install of threaded rod
    2) install racking equipment on roof
    2.5) replaced a couple of broken tiles on the roof (I had spares from a 200 sq foot addition I did a few years ago)
    3) install conduit and run wiring from garage up to roof and install whips (wiring from roof junction box to each string)
    4) mounted inverter and DC disconnect in garage
    5) drop off panels
    6) took my check

    Tomorrow they will:
    1) call for an afternoon inspection
    2) install panels
    3) wire up roof
    4) wire up dc disconnect to inverter and inverter to electrical panel
    5) perform tests (tests are good)
    6) obtain signed off permit
    7) be done
    8) await call and letter from SCE to 'go live'
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    are you getting any pics of all of this as that would be nice to see as it goes along?
  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    pics yes. It is my understanding that this forum does not host pictures. I will post them on a space that my ISP provides (do not know if they allow others to see them or not).

    Today I took a picture of the parts that tie the horizontal mounting rails to the roof, under the roof tile. I will take a picture of the railings prior to them installing the panels.

    I've also taken a pic of the interior of the garage and will take a pic of the flex conduit run in the attic...
  • xiphias
    xiphias Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    You can set up a free account at www.photobucket.com that will host the photos and post a link to the album here. Would like to see how all this is put together!
  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    ok. done. I'll add to it tomorrow.

    Autoxsteve's solar install album
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie
    autoxsteve wrote: »
    pics yes. It is my understanding that this forum does not host pictures.

    It will but the size is pretty limited.
  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    Installation was completed today and the permit was signed off by the City inspector. Test runs of inverter this afternoon (about 1:50pm) showed producton of 3.4kW in hazy skies.

    Now I await SCE to notify me that I can 'go live'....

    Here's pic of the panels on the roof
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    Any idea of how hot those critters will get, low down on the roof like that ?

    Do they face south ? west, east ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    mike,
    i don't think it will be much worse than any other roof being the pvs are apt to shade a good bit of it. i also wasn't aware that tiles could get hotter than asphalt shingles, but tiles could absorb more heat because of their larger density.
  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    Array is about 4 inches above top of S tiles (pic is deceiving - more space at bottom of S tiles).

    My array's azimuth is 205 deg True (192 deg magnetic) and at a 23 deg pitch.

    I can't wait for the 'go live' message from SCE so I can start producing. Today would have been a perfect day!
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    i know you are excited and i hate to sound like a downer, but i'm guessing that the 23 degrees would be the pitch of your roof. you will not have very good collection from the system in general due except for the summer solstice timeperiod +/- a few months. normally a system should at least have a pitch angle equal to their latitude to be an exacting angular compromise, with lat +15 degrees being very common for added winter pickup. add to this the fact that you aren't aimed due south and this could add a few more degrees to be needed for optimum as the sun doesn't reach as high in the sky in other directions. if your system is adjustable then forget what i just said.
  • xiphias
    xiphias Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    I'm a newbie so take this for what it's worth, but the data are from NREL's PVWatts at http://www.pvwatt.com/ so maybe there's something to it. I think downer is overstating.

    Don't know where you are in SoCal, but say you're at LAX.

    With a 23 degree roof facing 205 true, you get, on average,
    5.61 kWh/m2/day over the year, and could generate around 5967 kWh/yr with a 4.1 kW array. This is assuming a derate factor of 0.77, etc. per NREL.

    If you change the collector angle to the latitude at LAX (33.9 degrees), and change the orientation to due south (180 true), then the numbers change to 5.68 and 6013, respectively. Not statistically (or functionally) different, I'd guess.

    If you change the collector angle to lat+15 at 180 true, the numbers actually go down. Again, probably not significant either statistically or functionally. 5.46 and 5646, respectively. Looking at the monthly data, it appears that lat+15 results in decreased collection during the summer months due to the high angle. Yes, you get a little more in the winter, but not a heck of a lot, and the summer performance suffers.

    As I understand it, solar thermal is a bit more sensitive to angle than PV. And at least in my area, the lat+15 for winter pickup is good for two things: 1) increased output during heating season (for driving solar thermal heating systems), and 2) reduced collection during the summer (so you don't overproduce or cook the arrays if you don't have a good heat dump like a swimming pool).

    Anyway, my <$0/.02.
  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    xiphias,

    You're close. I am in Ventura county, about 50 miles almost due west of LAX.

    Yes. estimations are about 5900 - 6000 kWh per year.

    My neighbor has a system by the same installer and he's consistently getting higher than estimated #s from his system (I suspect due to our unique micro climate - sea breezes and inland enough to have the marine layer burn off early on most days, if it's present).

    Anyhow, time will tell...
  • newenergy
    newenergy Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    I didn't run the numbers but xiphias is certainly right or close anyway. A few degrees doesn't make that big a difference in production and is nowhere near the cost in money (or to most people aesthetics) to not just mount parallel to the roof.
  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    Well, today I received the GREAT news. SCE has approved my site for generation. I'll be online starting tomorrow and will provide a weekly and monthly update!
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie
    autoxsteve wrote: »
    Well, today I received the GREAT news. SCE has approved my site for generation. I'll be online starting tomorrow and will provide a weekly and monthly update!

    If you don't have a website, and want a space to post or u/l your data - send me a PM
    Mike
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    Well, at the conclusion of day 1 of my system, I produced 27 kWh of power (4180 W of DC).

    I consumed 14 kWh so I pushed 13 kWh back onto the grid.

    For comparison purposes, Mike90045 produced 21.4 kWh (with 4576 of DC) and Magneto produced 26.1 kWh (with 4620 of DC). Finally Mike Brown produced 32.4 kWh (with 5000W of DC).

    Sounds like I'm doing ok with a smaller system altho it is new....
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    " (4180 W of DC).
    (with 4576 of DC)
    (with 4620 of DC).
    (with 5000W of DC). "


    What's DC ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    Well, there's an unfriendly site. Whatever the java does, it's not doing it on my system. My spyware detector went ape when I clicked on it. I'll let somebody else be the guinea pig for it.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    DC - direct current. That is our system's max dc output.

    Regarding that link, that is to a java code file.

    This link is his solar web page and shows the screen shot of the java app. you might need a pc with java loaded to run it properly. it works for me.

    Sorry for the chaos.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: I'm diving into Grid Tie

    Well, his page explains what was going on, and why all the alarms went off. I'll have to research that a bit more before I allow "Java Web Start technology applications" .jnlp to run on my system. ( http://www.sans.org/newsletters/risk/display.php?v=4&i=12#widely2 says if I keep my java updated, I *should* be ok) but it's not exploit proof.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,