Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

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  • SkippySkippy Solar Expert Posts: 308 ✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    Finally got around to looking it up . . Ontario Canada . . . bill amount 97.61 $ energy used 645.46 KWH gives you a price per KW at .15

    Not too bad for heat - hydro - and hot water . . all electric . . in the middle of winter.
    2 - 255W + 4 - 285W PV - Tristar 45 MPPT CC / 3 - 110W PV -wired for 36V- 24V Sunsaver MPPT CC / midnite bat. monitor.
    1 KW PSW inverter 24V / 2.5 KW MSW inverter-24V ~ 105 AHR battery.
    3 ton GSHP.- 100 gallon warm water storage / house heat - radiant floor / rad
    9 -220W PV - net meter - Enphase inverters and internet reporting system.
    420 Gallon rain water system for laundry.***  6" Rocket Mass Heater with 10' bed for workshop heat.
    Current project is drawing up plans for a below grade Hobbit / underground home.
  • NilaNila Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    http://tneb.tnebnet.org/tariff_new.html

    If i use 1000KWH / 2 month.. I pay around 4714 rupees
    4715 Indian Rupee equals 86.89 US Dollar so it is 0.08$/kwh which may raise again soon lol..

    But If i use 500KWH /2 month
    1330 Indian Rupee equals
    24.51 US Dollar that is 0.04$ ;)

    Since our govt will provide some sort of subsidy for the lower end users.

    I am trying to get into that 500KWH bracket so i can save a lot..

    Here they bill us once 60days.. I was assuming that we were actually paying dirtcheap compared to USA,CA and other big countries etc now it seems its not the case anymore after the recent tariff raiese.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    Nova Scotia, Canada. Just got my bill for 2 months, 11 Dec to Feb 12.
    Base charge, regardless of any energy used or not used: $10.83/month X 2 months = $21.66
    Cost per Kwh went up during this period from $0.13336/kwh to $0.13790/kwh.
    Kwh used during this time (when I was running heat pump, not cold enough for the wood fire) 69kwh. Cost, taking in change in price: $9.41
    Total bill including taxes = $33.05
    The all in cost per Kwh on this bill: 33.05/69 = $ 0.48
    BTW, earlier NSP was predicting a 10% increase in cost. That's been changed obviously. They often speak of huge increases, then come in with something much smaller, resulting in people thanking them for the smaller increase. When is the last time you thanked your utility for price increase? Hahahaha
  • tmarchtmarch Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    Access charge-$22.00 per month to have access to the grid. Plus the following rates per KWH
    first 500 KWH cost 0.2161
    next 500 KWH cost 0.1168
    next 500 KWH cost 0.1054
    next 500 KWH cost 0.0799

    I very seldom use 1000KWH a month so basically my average rate is close to 0.18 per KWH. With my current 6K of solar I produced 9500 KWHs the first year which is a lot better ROI than some things I've owned.;)
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?
    tmarch wrote: »
    Access charge-$22.00 per month to have access to the grid. Plus the following rates per KWH
    first 500 KWH cost 0.2161
    next 500 KWH cost 0.1168
    next 500 KWH cost 0.1054
    next 500 KWH cost 0.0799

    I find this interesting because it is inverse of what some companies (like BC Hydro) do; charge you more per kW hour above a certain threshold.
  • Lee DodgeLee Dodge Solar Expert Posts: 112 ✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    According to this link, the average electrical rate for the U.S. in 2011 was 11.72 cents/kWh. The highest rates are New England, the Middle Atlantic, and Hawaii (very high). I assume these rates do not include the connection change, but I am only guessing. They quote a rate of 11.27 cents/kWh average for Colorado, close to what I pay at 10.8 cents/kWh, not including the connection fee. If I include the connection fee in computing the average rate, the rate they charge me is infinite, since my net use is below zero. :D They refund about 3 cents/kWh for excess generation from my PV system.

    It is also interesting that the average usage in the U.S. is 940 kWh per month, with the highest usage rates in the south, presumably for A/C. Some of you off-grid guys are not contributing your fair share to electricity use. :roll:
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    We do not get a utility bill so I can't compare that way. But for the month of January we used roughly 940 kWh in our home. With replacement cost of batteries, generator fuel, and amortized equipment cost over its lifespan, I figure roughly 35-37 cents/kWh for our off-grid power at 900-950 kWh/month.
    --
    Chris
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    Chris, I was going to figure what my bill would be for the amount of electric you used but my electric bill lacks all the info. About 3 months ago they quit putting the amount I was accumulating in my accountt. Just the previous meter reading and the present. They still showed all the charges and the monthly connection fee. I called them for 2 months and they put the kwh balance in account but dropped the info that tells you the monthly distribution, generator charges ect. On my bill it said if I want to know the kwh charge to call them. The monthly connection charge is for billing and meter reading. I havn,t had to pay for any electric for more than a year, so guess I will have to be happy that they are showing electric generated, used and kwh balance in my account. My monthly billing charge has fluxiated around $10 per month so that is a preety cheap battery. By the way, my new Max Burton induction hotplate is great and I can cook on my new macy,s stainless cookware (Beligique) without burning stuff. Best way to cook bacon that I have ever seen. :DSolarvic:D
  • tmarchtmarch Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?
    tmarch wrote: »
    Access charge-$22.00 per month to have access to the grid. Plus the following rates per KWH
    first 500 KWH cost 0.2161
    next 500 KWH cost 0.1168
    next 500 KWH cost 0.1054
    next 500 KWH cost 0.0799

    I very seldom use 1000KWH a month so basically my average rate is close to 0.18 per KWH. With my current 6K of solar I produced 9500 KWHs the first year which is a lot better ROI than some things I've owned.;)

    And just got a notice they are going to raise the rates by an average of 3.25% making my plan for an additional 4K of solar look even better.
  • northernernortherner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    This is my last bill for a residence in a small town in northern Alberta, Canada:

    RETAILER CHARGES

    Administration fee fixed $9.00
    Total energy use charge - electricity $27.53
    (310 kwh x 0.0888 = $27.53)
    GST (5% tax) $1.83
    Current Energy Billing (sub total) $38.36

    DISTRIBUTOR CHARGES

    Transmission Charge $8.55
    Distribution Charge $80.85 ouch!:grr
    Rate Rider $0.98 CR
    Local Access Fee $5.13
    GST (5% tax) $4.68
    Current Distributor Billing $98.23

    ____________________________________________________
    Total Charges for Site $136.59

    The rate of 8.88 cents per kwh somehow became over 44 cents per kwh!
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?
    tmarch wrote: »
    Access charge-$22.00 per month to have access to the grid. Plus the following rates per KWH
    first 500 KWH cost 0.2161
    next 500 KWH cost 0.1168
    I very seldom use 1000KWH a month so basically my average rate is close to 0.18 per KWH. With my current 6K of solar I produced 9500 KWHs the first year which is a lot better ROI than some things I've owned.;)

    I guess your using about 650Kwh a month, so if you add in the $22/650 or another 3.5 cents your getting closer to being an effect charge to go off grid! I suspect we'll see more of this as connection rates appear to be increasing in many areas.

    I pay a bit over 20 cents a Kwh, with my $25 connection/line fee added in, our rates (rural Missouri) also are cheaper as you use more, not nearly as pronounced as yours, I think 9.8 cents for first 1000Kwh, 8.8 for 1000-3000 and 8 for >3000Kwhs.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?
    northerner wrote: »
    This is my last bill for a residence in a small town in northern Alberta, Canada:

    RETAILER CHARGES

    Administration fee fixed $9.00
    Total energy use charge - electricity $27.53
    (310 kwh x 0.0888 = $27.53)
    GST (5% tax) $1.83
    Current Energy Billing (sub total) $38.36

    DISTRIBUTOR CHARGES

    Transmission Charge $8.55
    Distribution Charge $80.85 ouch!:grr
    Rate Rider $0.98 CR
    Local Access Fee $5.13
    GST (5% tax) $4.68
    Current Distributor Billing $98.23

    ____________________________________________________
    Total Charges for Site $136.59

    The rate of 8.88 cents per kwh somehow became over 44 cents per kwh!
    Wow, your bill is unreal. It doesn't make any difference that Solar can have a few detractors in your case. Good Luck with you new expansion.

    I suspect that you'll have to completely disconnect from their system to avoid the charges. Thats what my gas company has done, even though the gas is cheap, they have used fixed system charges to stick it to me and any conservation is worthless endeavor. The only way to get rid of them is to cut the line and disconnect.
    .
  • northernernortherner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?
    Wow, your bill is unreal. It doesn't make any difference that Solar can have a few detractors in your case. Good Luck with you new expansion.

    I suspect that you'll have to completely disconnect from their system to avoid the charges. Thats what my gas company has done, even though the gas is cheap, they have used fixed system charges to stick it to me and any conservation is worthless endeavor. The only way to get rid of them is to cut the line and disconnect.
    .

    That's the conclusion I have come to, yes. But it's all good, as the solar will be displacing a dirty source of power. Were it not for that fact, I would not be going this route. But I also have plans down the road to use the system on an acreage not serviced by power. So that makes it double good.

    The distribution and transmission charges are also based on usage. I've heard of others that use more power paying $500 per month for their electric bill. This is about 3 to 4 times the rate of power in the neighboring province of BC, where electricity is relatively cheap.

    I just did a quick calculation using the energy calculator on this site and determined that electricity here is about 10 times the cost of equivalent heat energy as natural gas. Wow!
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,438 admin
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    Distribution/transmission charges may be based on either actual (peak) usage and/or the size of your service (breaker capacity).

    With your system, you may be able to drop from (for example) a 200-400 amp service to 125 amp or less since you are already going solar (just use as source of backup power/AC battery charging where you can control the maximum average draw on your mains.

    In California--Dropping electrical connections and going off grid can incur "stranding charges" (I have not heard of folks actually being charged for residences leaving the grid). This is to "pay" for loans taken out in "our name" for grid and generation capacity projects that have 20-40 year loans that need to be retired. May also have issues with cities that "red tag" homes without utility connections.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • northernernortherner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?
    BB. wrote: »
    Distribution/transmission charges may be based on either actual (peak) usage and/or the size of your service (breaker capacity).

    With your system, you may be able to drop from (for example) a 200-400 amp service to 125 amp or less since you are already going solar (just use as source of backup power/AC battery charging where you can control the maximum average draw on your mains.

    In California--Dropping electrical connections and going off grid can incur "stranding charges" (I have not heard of folks actually being charged for residences leaving the grid). This is to "pay" for loans taken out in "our name" for grid and generation capacity projects that have 20-40 year loans that need to be retired. May also have issues with cities that "red tag" homes without utility connections.

    -Bill

    I have only 100 amp service as is and I believe that is the minimum requirement for a home this size. So dropping service size is not an option.

    Our electricity is provided through 2 separate companies. Energy usage is through a retail company, and distributor charges through a major electric utility company. The distributor charges relate to usage, but I don't know how they actually calculate them. I notice though, that distributor charges are almost always higher than the energy bill, irregardless of how much energy is used. Even if no electricity is used, the bill still works out to around $50 per month.

    The only issue I am aware of here is the distributor will actually disconnect your power from the grid if the bill isn't paid. I know of a case where this happened (in winter) and it burst a hot water tank and buckled the foundation of the house due to freezing. The person in the house just walked away from it, before this happened. There seems to be more of an issue with people either late with, or not paying their bills. I do believe that they are now required to turn the power on periodically if in winter, to prevent damage from freezing.

    I do know of people disconnecting a structure or home from the grid without a problem in this region.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    I'm not surprised people are paying their bills late or not at all if they are being charged mysterious, unexplained, unjustified amounts. Sound like you hand them $80 a month for nothing. That amount alone would pay my BC Hydro for two months.

    You are indeed getting ripped off.
    (Everyone keep in mind that Northern Alberta isn't much different from Northern British Columbia in geographic terms. But BC Hydro is a Crown corporation whereas 'northerner' is apparently paying two separate private companies for his power.)
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    We have had it here to, one company owns the lines and someone else is the supplier. Even though we have a Public Utilities Commission that controls the rates they can charge, it's a loaded process. They put in Rate requests years in advance and they play Good Guy-Bad Guy on the rate increases, each blaming the other. Not enough of the public attend the hearings and it all goes through. They use the practices of other Utilities across the nation to justify their position, even if it doesn't apply to them. It's in Electric, Gas , Water, TV Cable and Garbage bills. They know they have you by the short hairs and you can't do much about them.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,438 admin
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    Yea, separating the generation/transmission companies from the distribution utilities that supply the power to the end customer.

    That was California's "brilliant idea" for "deregulation" (if we have more pages of/people doing the regulation, how can they call it deregulation with a straight face).

    It was a wonderful sight... Everybody pointing fingers every where (particularly ENRON). And nothing got fixed (for over a year) and we had a few brown outs with billions of dollars that evaporated (except for the 40 year state bonds to pay for a summer of "power").

    It is almost as if the government is doing all this on purpose.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    Here is a good one. I am on a Independent Telephone Company, it's over 100 Years old and owned by the same Family. They are the greatest, yeah their Rich, but nice people and give back. Three years ago we paid $14.00 for basic Phone Service, the ones not on them but on AT&T were paying $26.00 for basic Service a month. The Stupid Public Service Commission made them raise their basic charge saying it was to low for others to compete and was unfair. My Company was like our family does not take the all profit we don't need it, we have to invest it back into the same equipment the AT&T has and to offer the same services, we just do it cheaper.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    bc, somehow that does not surprise me. just because they aren't gouging their customers like the others are, that they are being forced to do so by a puc. sort of is contradictory saying it is a public utility commission as it is more a corporate utility commission.
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?
    niel wrote: »
    bc, somehow that does not surprise me. just because they aren't gouging their customers like the others are, that they are being forced to do so by a puc. sort of is contradictory saying it is a public utility commission as it is more a corporate utility commission.

    Well here at least they say it honestly, it is Arizona Corporation Commission.
    I do have to admit at least they have in the past been somewhat reasonable or upfront about why rates are what they are.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Corporation_Commission
    The Arizona Corporation Commission is the Public Utilities Commission of the State of Arizona, established by Article 15 of the Arizona Constitution. There are currently five members of the commission (recently expanded from three). Arizona is one of only a handful of states with elected commissioners. The Arizona constitution itself explicitly calls for an elected commission (as opposed to a governor-appointed commission, which is the standard in most states), because its drafters feared that governors would appoint industry-friendly officials. They are directly elected statewide, and serve staggered four-year terms.
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?
    northerner wrote: »
    The only issue I am aware of here is the distributor will actually disconnect your power from the grid if the bill isn't paid.
    And with Smart Meters, they can remotely open a contactor inside the meter and not even have to visit the property to shut you off.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • SulfurSulfur Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    I am paying 10.7 cents per kwh in Montana, including taxes. It is a flat rate. I use about 1800-2400 kwh/month
  • C_HeathC_Heath Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭✭
    Re: Cost per kWh: what do you pay?

    .0929 this month. my rate is flat (for now)
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