how to reduce modem power draw?

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The Original Ralph
The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
i know this is going to sound anal retentive, but it's annoying the heck out of me.

Been trying to "slim" down my power needs before starting a solar build. I've nearly cut my daily current use in half but one item i had not looked at closely till last week, my comcast provided arris modem that apparently is a current hog (relatively) at 60+ watts.

for the life of me, i couldn't believe the modem could take more current than my sony desktop (w/19" display) could - the sony only uses 50w when browsing the web. Between the modem and my wireless router, there's 100w constantly drawing. I'm now realizing the reason that damn modem is always warm.

btw, for those interested, my computer's draw went from 80+ watts to 50w when i installed a solid state drive.

did a little research, as i figured owning my own would also knock that $7 monthly rental fee comcast charges in rent for the modem. But in reading forums on this, it seems while comcast publishes a list of acceptable modems for their broadband, they make it impossible or nearly so, to use non-comcast owned modems, by failing to "activate" a non-comcast owned modem - or folks with their own, seem to complain about monthly or so having to call into comcast tech svc to have their modems "re-activated". I can see where it's a nice little profit center for them but that isn't my concern or goal in life

broadband is a must have, my home based business is web dependent, plus the kids & wife enjoy netflix. Even scheduling turning the thing off totally when not in use, would still mean 15-16 hours per day of run time, so the savings might be $3.50 monthly at 11.57 cents per kWh.

any suggestions? -
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #2
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    I will let you know what happens with the Comcast Modem (Got at $80 Motorola "Surf" modem of some sort from Costco). Yea--$5 to $7 a month, 40% increase for "modem rental" (modem probably cost comcast all of $30)...

    If you are off grid--I have been using my Andriod Smart Phone with PDA Net ($20). Tethers nicely to my PC and uses my Verizon unlimited (now no longer available) networking plan. But--if you have cable, that is a whole nother level of service (~5 GB per month for Verison $50; Comcast ~250 GB per month for their "unlimited plan").

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • arghhh
    arghhh Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭
    #3
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    The Original Ralph wrote: »
    i know this is going to sound anal retentive, but it's annoying the heck out of me.

    Been trying to "slim" down my power needs before starting a solar build. I've nearly cut my daily current use in half but one item i had not looked at closely till last week, my comcast provided arris modem that apparently is a current hog (relatively) at 60+ watts.

    any suggestions? -

    That is quite impressive, that thing must be roasting! I just putt the kill-a-watt on my Motorola SB6120 and got between 4-5watts and 14VA. Do you also have the modem that has the comcast digital voice?

    If you are just using internet you can get a modem for $80 or less and avoid that crazy $7 fee. Never had any problem using my own modem with them, just call them up and tell them you want to provision your own modem and should be cake.

    Regards,

    Jeff
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    60 Watts for just the modem? My system here uses 45 Watts max to power the UPS, Motorola SB5101 cable modem, VOIP adapter and DLink wireless router. On average it runs between 20 and 30 Watts.

    How nice that you get to pay all that money for something that is so badly designed.
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    BB. wrote: »
    I will let you know what happens with the Comcast Modem (Got at $80 Motorola "Surf" modem of some sort from Costco). Yea--$5 to $7 a month, 40% increase for "modem rental" (modem probably cost comcast all of $30)...

    If you are off grid--I have been using my Andriod Smart Phone with PDA Net ($20). Tethers nicely to my PC and uses my Verizon unlimited (now no longer available) networking plan. But--if you have cable, that is a whole nother level of service (~5 GB per month for Verison $50; Comcast ~250 GB per month for their "unlimited plan").

    -Bill

    i've used the same PDA net w/tmobile but most i used (using it every nite 3-4 hours, whether on the road or on the couch w/laptop, was just shy of 6 gb per month. But netflix would bust that way way up -

    the motorala surf models were on the comcast approved list, but showing lower certification approvals (and i really really believe those certification approvals are held back by comcast, kind of like the old proverbial "butcher's thumb" to favor the rental modem.

    be curious to see what your experience with the motorala modem is in 2-3 months

    two links that might make the transition a little easier, in case - first one lists the default "user name" and passwords for the modems, by model/mfgr
    http://www.dslreports.com/faq/comcast/2.1_Modems#11213

    the 2nd one, lists the comcast certified modem list
    http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    arghhh wrote: »
    That is quite impressive, that thing must be roasting! I just putt the kill-a-watt on my Motorola SB6120 and got between 4-5watts and 14VA. Do you also have the modem that has the comcast digital voice?

    If you are just using internet you can get a modem for $80 or less and avoid that crazy $7 fee. Never had any problem using my own modem with them, just call them up and tell them you want to provision your own modem and should be cake.

    Regards,

    Jeff

    nope - no voice svc over the net, just std broadband

    you're running that modem on or with comcast broadband? is this your 6120? http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=67&e=0&d3=0&s=&so=&sc=1170

    and believe me, it flipped me out - kept trying to find i was wrong - unplugged the computer and UPS (APC 1000) entirely, and still got 101 watts for the modem & router, plug the computer back in (with the UPS), in sleep mode got 103W, computer on with lit display but no activity - 126-130w, go out on web browsing and draw goes to 149-150w

    checking the mfgr's label on the arris wbm760 modem, shows "115V, 0.5 A max"
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  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #7
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    BB. wrote: »
    I will let you know what happens with the Comcast Modem (Got at $80 Motorola "Surf" modem of some sort from Costco). Yea--$5 to $7 a month, 40% increase for "modem rental" (modem probably cost comcast all of $30)...

    If you are off grid--I have been using my Andriod Smart Phone with PDA Net ($20). Tethers nicely to my PC and uses my Verizon unlimited (now no longer available) networking plan. But--if you have cable, that is a whole nother level of service (~5 GB per month for Verison $50; Comcast ~250 GB per month for their "unlimited plan").

    -Bill

    I have the same Verizon deal plus 500 minutes phone, had it now at least 5 years I went to them to upgrade to 900 minutesd and the REP checked my usage and laughed. Apparently with all the netflix I watch I am in the top 5% of the Country for usage and he informed me I should NEVER let this unlimiuted service go and they certainly would not let me upgrade without limiting my Kb's.
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    SirSparks wrote: »
    I have the same Verizon deal plus 500 minutes phone, had it now at least 5 years I went to them to upgrade to 900 minutesd and the REP checked my usage and laughed. Apparently with all the netflix I watch I am in the top 5% of the Country for usage and he informed me I should NEVER let this unlimiuted service go and they certainly would not let me upgrade without limiting my Kb's.

    don't know about verizon, but suspect you have the same ability with them as T-mobile
    - at Tmo, i can go to my acct online and monitor daily useage, minutes (talk) or data

    i was unlimited but was curious if i was coming close to their then 10GB "unlimited" point where they'd choke or throttle the data speed down to 2g speed

    even when they dropped the ceiling to 5GB monthly, they never throttled me at 6GB, so suspect it's subjectively enforced
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    Sat modem, uses ~12 watts, router about the same, VoIP about the same.

    Tony
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  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #10
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    The Original Ralph wrote: »
    don't know about verizon, but suspect you have the same ability with them as T-mobile
    - at Tmo, i can go to my acct online and monitor daily useage, minutes (talk) or data

    i was unlimited but was curious if i was coming close to their then 10GB "unlimited" point where they'd choke or throttle the data speed down to 2g speed

    even when they dropped the ceiling to 5GB monthly, they never throttled me at 6GB, so suspect it's subjectively enforced


    When they checked my usage 6 months ago it was about 35 Gb. I don't get throttled but If I leave it on with NO movie playing it will disconnect after 30 mins to an hour.
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #11
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    As a start you could change the power supply to a switched mode version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply that should make a bit of a dent.
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    stephendv wrote: »
    As a start you could change the power supply to a switched mode version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply that should make a bit of a dent.

    appreciate, but you might as well ask me to perform brain surgery as employ one of those - you don't get more electronically illiterate than i am

    if i can bring it down to what others have indicated theirs' are running, 4-5 watts, i'd be happy. Brought another watt meter home to check mine and getting the same result within 1 watt, ie showing 59 watts reading the modem by itself.

    called comcast tech and got thru to someone that indicated they'd had some problems with this and to dis-continue use until they can get a replacement here. Just ordered a motorola sb6120 (did more research) and taking the desktop offline for a few days.
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #13
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    Maybe just a case of different terminology over there ;) The "power supply" is the box that sits between your wall socket and the modem that converts your normal AC power into DC power that the modem uses.
    The ones that come with the modem are usually the cheapest kind that are very inefficient. If you check the stickers on the modem it will say what DC voltage it uses. Then you could go to any electronic store and ask them for a "switch mode power supply" for X DC volts. Like this one: http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-voltage-2500ma-switched-mode-power-supply-49063
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    My Motorola SB5101 cable modem on Comcast draws 5 watts.

    D-Link 24 port gigabit switch is drawing 6 watts.

    LinkSys wrt54g wireless router is drawing 4 watts.
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    stephendv wrote: »
    Maybe just a case of different terminology over there ;) The "power supply" is the box that sits between your wall socket and the modem that converts your normal AC power into DC power that the modem uses.
    The ones that come with the modem are usually the cheapest kind that are very inefficient. If you check the stickers on the modem it will say what DC voltage it uses. Then you could go to any electronic store and ask them for a "switch mode power supply" for X DC volts. Like this one: http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-voltage-2500ma-switched-mode-power-supply-49063


    thanks - i was focus'd on the terminology of the wikileaks descript, and didn't realize they come ready to use - the arris wdm760 modem runs straight to a 120v receptacle - no DC supply transformer between the wall and the modem.
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  • Slappy
    Slappy Solar Expert Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    after reading this, I had to check mine. modem and router together use .57 amp @12v. the netgear router had a 12v wall wart, so hooked straight to battery, and the charter modem ran off of a 10v wall wart, but still hooked it straight to battery, running for 2 months straight so far and has not smoked yet (knock on wood). even when the batts get to 14.4 volts. still no hick up. I not saying to do this, I just got tired of all the wall warts. so just took a chance. and no the modem does not get any hotter than it did before doing this. So @ 12.8 volts X .57 amps = 7 watts. to run both items. :D
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    slappy,
    you are taking a bit of a chance running 14.4v to a 10v item. it may not blow right away, but could degrade with excessive heat shortening its lifespan. if you are familiar with diodes and feel comfortable putting them inline it could reduce the voltage by .5v-.75v per diode. i usually see .5v-.6v with 1n4001 and others in that lineup of diodes. i would put 3 or 4 inline as i would figure you are roughly 2v higher than the circuitry was originally nominally intended for.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    Niel is right re reducing the higher voltage, and I would definitely do as he suggests. That said, I've found that with the exception of electronically regulated (expensive and relatively rare), consumer electronics wall warts, the open circuit voltage is almost without exception, substantially higher than their stated voltage. Not at all uncommon to see a 9 volt "AC adapter" putting out at least 12 volts, or a 12 volt model spitting out 15, 16. or more volts. Of course this comes down somewhat, or a lot under load, depending on the load it drives. but that doesn't make it right. However it tends to be the way the industry works. Some of it could also have to do with what's coming into our homes. For instance the grid supplied 120 VAC entering my home, I've seen it as high as 138 volts. But I suspect the power companies like it that way, as many appliances will end up consuming extra power as they run. Extra power that consumers can be charged for. Whatever happened to the old 110/220 VAC? In my case, and many others in these parts, it became as high as 138/276 VAC. Pretty excessive in my opinion, and I wonder how long before Insurance companies get involved with that?
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    for the hey of it, yesterday i separated or isolated the APC "Smart-UPS 1000", unplugged the few items connected, and read it by itself - was a little shocked to see it drawing 96-98 watts with absolutely no load.

    While the internal batteries are somewhat old (4 yr, 4 months since purchase), the backup has never had a major outage where it kept the computer going for any length of time - the program is set to start the shutdown sequence 1 minute after power loss. and the diagnostic program is showing the batteries at 100% of charge

    talked to APC tech svc this AM, guy pulled up the specs on my unit and calculated the normal current useage for this unit is .9 amp 120V. wtf?? at $0.1157 kWh, that's $8.33 a month for the UPS backup just to sit there.

    that thing's going on ebay - i'm not worried about computer crashes but am about voltage surges or spikes (we seem to be famous here for those). I've got a Panamax 5500 AC Regenerator (an electrician friend pushed me to get one of these years ago to protect the entertainment system), very little draw on it - i'll just run the computer cord over to it.

    I might just make my goal of 350 kWh a month (non A/C months) - i know a lot of folks are way below that, but i do run a business out of my home as well.
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  • Urbandialect
    Urbandialect Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭✭✭
    #20
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    I put the inline amp meter on the positive lead on my inverter and hooked it up to the battery to see the amp draw on my computer w/it hooked up, My computer has a Quad core processer so i'm not sure if that makes a differences, but on boot up i had a 20 amp spike then it settled to 15 amps, then it bounced from 10amp to 15amps as Fans where coming on and off, then it settled at 8amps, until i started surfing the net, when i started surfing the net it went up to 12 amps, and when I streamed a video off youtube it was around 14 amps..the amps went up as I heard fans inside the computer come on and the amps went down when fans in the computer truned off.

    But it looks like my computer is a energy hog :(
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #21
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    Urbandialect wrote: »
    My computer on boot up i had a 20 amp spike then it settled to 15 amps, then it bounced from 10amp to 15amps.

    But it looks like my computer is a energy hog :(

    No looking about it. Your computer IS an energy hog! :cry:
    That's also what shocked me about my former computer, it was sucking back more power than my fridge! Went to a 17" LED laptop, the consumption dropped to less than 20 watts while at the same time it is faster and does more things better. :D
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #22
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    The Original Ralph wrote: »
    for the hey of it, yesterday i separated or isolated the APC "Smart-UPS 1000", unplugged the few items connected, and read it by itself - was a little shocked to see it drawing 96-98 watts with absolutely no load.....talked to APC tech svc this AM, guy pulled up the specs on my unit and calculated the normal current useage for this unit is .9 amp 120V.

    Ouch. And I'm using a similar unit for my DVR (which is by itself an energy hog). I've checked out most things in my house but I didn't think to check out the UPS with my Kill-A-Watt. Time to pull it out and check the UPS out tonight. :grr
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #23
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    techntrek wrote: »
    Ouch. And I'm using a similar unit for my DVR (which is by itself an energy hog). I've checked out most things in my house but I didn't think to check out the UPS with my Kill-A-Watt. Time to pull it out and check the UPS out tonight. :grr

    "ouch" and a few other things are what i said - i still don't understand the need for that kind of current draw, especially when the internal batteries are a total of 12V 12 amp hour, per their specs
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #24
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    I agree. You shouldn't get that kind of draw even with a fully discharged battery in a "fast recharge" mode.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #25
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    If you need a UPS--That is one reason I like laptops--the computer comes with a "free" high efficiency UPS (the battery pack).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #26
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    Ok, I have an APC ES 550. I have two, one of them has been sitting unplugged for a while. Figured that would be perfect so I could see what the charging amps are. So I plugged it into my Kill-A-Watt and I cringed as the number skyrocketed up to







    5 watts. 7 kva. Its been an hour or two and right now it is using 4 watts. To be sure the Kill-A-Watt was working ok I plugged a 4 watt nightlight into the UPS and the display went up by 4 watts. I can't believe the draw on mine is so low, but there it is.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • arghhh
    arghhh Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭
    #27
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    The Original Ralph wrote: »
    nope - no voice svc over the net, just std broadband

    you're running that modem on or with comcast broadband? is this your 6120? http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=67&e=0&d3=0&s=&so=&sc=1170

    I am running that modem on Comcast, bought it about a year ago now. That is the exact modem I have.

    I have had zero issues with it and have gotten 35mbit/sec downloads 8mbit/sec uploads on it.
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #28
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    techntrek wrote: »
    Ok, I have an APC ES 550. I have two, one of them has been sitting unplugged for a while. Figured that would be perfect so I could see what the charging amps are. So I plugged it into my Kill-A-Watt and I cringed as the number skyrocketed up to

    5 watts. 7 kva. Its been an hour or two and right now it is using 4 watts. To be sure the Kill-A-Watt was working ok I plugged a 4 watt nightlight into the UPS and the display went up by 4 watts. I can't believe the draw on mine is so low, but there it is.


    that's the kind of number i'd like to see - i'd already checked my watt meter against my neighbor's on the modem the other nite, and the svc tech at APC said .9 amps for current draw

    would love to know what it's doing with those watts - and just checked it again, computer plugged into APC-1000, (computer on w/display lit but no activity, no browsing etc), APC plugged into watt meter - showing 124-127 watts (desktop by itself showed 26-30 watts on idle yesterady,) so the APC-1000 is pulling 95+ watts
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #29
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?

    You are not confusing VA (volt*amps) with Watts? It is possible to have fairly high VA and low watts with some devices (lots of out of phase current draw--basically moving lots of current but not using much heat/power).

    With a 120 watts steady state, no load... Look for what is getting hot. If it is the batteries--it is possible the battery(ies) are toast. Or the charging circuit is over charging the battery bank (which will toast them anyway).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #30
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    BB. wrote: »
    If you need a UPS--That is one reason I like laptops--the computer comes with a "free" high efficiency UPS (the battery pack).

    -Bill

    appreciate the suggestion, and while you're correct, i'd rather, for now, keep funds available for the PV system. The desktop itself isn't drawing 50-53 watts when computer is working (browsing, loading heavy programs etc) and it's just 2 years old - plus i just installed a Solid State Drive - that alone dropped it's current draw down considerably plus makes it feel like i dropped a six speed gearbox in it, vs the old wide ratio 4 spd it had

    been doing a lot of catch up reading here and looks like what i dreamed of building for $4,500 - $5,000 is going to run more, so that desktop will be a fixture here for awhile
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #31
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    Re: how to reduce modem power draw?
    BB. wrote: »
    You are not confusing VA (volt*amps) with Watts? It is possible to have fairly high VA and low watts with some devices (lots of out of phase current draw--basically moving lots of current but not using much heat/power).

    With a 120 watts steady state, no load... Look for what is getting hot. If it is the batteries--it is possible the battery(ies) are toast. Or the charging circuit is over charging the battery bank (which will toast th
    em anyway).

    -Bill

    my meter will only read amps and watts

    you may be right about it overcharging or the batteries being toast - i'm just not literate enough in electronics to answer intelligently there. WHen i opened the diagnostics console (In APC software), it showed the battery at 100% charge state with one alert, that the battery was 4 yr 4 months old.

    here's a shot of the APC pulled out from under the desk, absolutely nothing plugged in, but turned on and its showing 93 watts

    APCon.jpg

    then when i turned it off it jumped up to 95 watts

    APCoff.jpg
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