Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

OldManOwen · June 2013

Hello all,

My first post here and I have been reading several hours a night for the last week. I think I have the basics down but would like as much input from the community as I can get to meet my needs without making costly mistakes or overspending where not required. I plan on using my F250 Super Duty pickup with camper shell for extended fishing and hunting trips (2 weeks up to two months) in Wyoming and Montana and would like help choosing the exact components for my build.
I plan on powering my 17" Dell laptop for movies at night (and Internet when I get into town), one or two LED lights, a cell phone charger, electric shaver charger and an ARB 50qt fridge/freezer that I would like to keep connected full time to keep fish frozen and drinks cold.

I have already purchased a Honda EU2000i and plan to use it to power small tools and as the primary way to charge the battery (or batteries) during cloudy/snowy periods.

Items I am looking at and subject to be updated here with your input...

-Solar Panel... http://www.solar-electric.com/kyocera-kd140sx-ufbs-140-watt-polycrystalline-solar-panel.html $290.

-Solar Charge Controller... http://www.solar-electric.com/mosumpsochco.html $230

-Battery Gauge... http://www.solar-electric.com/mnbcm.html $50

-Battery... (I am assuming I will need only one, space is an issue obviously but I could make two work)... http://www.solar-electric.com/concorde-sunxtender-pvx-1080t.html $300

-Battery Charger to be used with the Honda EU2000i... http://www.solar-electric.com/ioen12vo15am.html $115 with the IQ4 option.

-Inverter... http://www.solar-electric.com/mosu300wasiw.html $240 Wired to a standard outlet. I am unsure about this as well, I believe I want a pure sine-wave inverter but not sure how big or what brand as these vary in price range considerably. The laptop would be the largest draw i'm sure as the ARB fridge/freezer is 12 volt and would not require use of the inverter.

I know that with the weather and locations I will be in use of the Honda EU2000i to supplement the solar panel is unavoidable and i'm OK with that because if my logic is correct i'll be able to run the Charger and say watch a movie with the laptop charging directly from the generator for a few hours. I'm sure over time i'll be able to get more creative with other things I can do to get the most of the Generator while running, sort of electrical multi-tasking.

Please keep in mind this is my first solar/DC project and I realize I may be way off here. I'll update my links and prices to reflect the suggestions of the community here and keep you updated as I purchase and install everything.

I have read in many posts that http://www.amazon.com/3M-Heavy-Duty-Mounting-Black/dp/B0016HM7SE/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=3RN3ZFZ3EVKPK&coliid=I1RVVK4JCDBICG can be used to mount the panel to the top of the camper shell (some companies offer the mounts with the 3M tape already on them) but I do have concerns about it's properties in extreme cold per 3M's websight and PDF found here... http://solutions.3m.com/3MContentRetrievalAPI/BlobServlet?lmd=1257832956000&locale=en_IN&assetType=MMM_Image&assetId=1180621617056&blobAttribute=ImageFile

Let me know what you think, if I have to i'll mount with traditional stainless hardware but obviously not drilling holes into the top of the shell has it's advantages for waterproofing.

Thank you all for taking the time to read my tedious post and I can't wait to get some solid advice so as to proceed with my project.

Nathan M Owen
SSGT USMC RETIRED

Katie Couric, while interviewing a Marine sniper, asked:

"What do you feel when you shoot a terrorist?"

The Marine shrugged and replied: "Recoil."

Cariboocoot · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Welcome to the forum.

Let's look at some of your equipment choices and see how they fair.
Battery first, because this sort of system depends on the battery. Your pick is 108 Amp hours (roughly). That's not a whole lot of power on hand: maybe 600 Watt hours DC. Without having measurements of your loads it's hard to say if that will be enough. Having the generator on hand will negate problems of running out of power so long as the gasoline holds out. Worst case: start the truck and feed the "house" battery from the alternator. But you might want to measure your available battery space carefully and see how much you can tuck in.

KD140 solar panel. This will work fine for charging ~100 Amp hour battery. Again having the generator eliminates the "no sun" problem so no sense going crazy on panels. You might want to think about the slightly smaller and cheaper Solartech 130: http://www.solar-electric.com/solartech-spm130p-s-n-130-watt-multicrystalline-solar-module.html

MS 15 MPPT controller. This is overkill as your panel is 12 Volt & 7 amp. You don't really need to adjust the Voltage any and there's not going to be that much current. Maybe you want to change this for a less expensive PWM type like this: http://www.solar-electric.com/ss-10.html Possibly you could put the money difference towards a second panel. That would depend on the final battery size and how much sun you can expect.

The 45 Amp battery charger is really overkill. That would handle 400+ Amp hours of battery and you won't have that much. Really the 15 Amp is large for that one battery. http://www.solar-electric.com/ioen12vo15am.html

Aside from the DC 'frige, everything you list is very low power. All under 100 Watts so there's no sense buying a big inverter for it. Morningstar's 300 Watt unit is highly recommended by those who use it, but by the same token even that is big for your needs. You could probably get away with this tiny Samlex 150: http://www.solar-electric.com/sa150wa12vos.html Or even the 300 which is still less money than the MS unit.

I think the thing you really need to design around is that refrigerator, as that is what you need to keep running 24 hours a day. Find out what the specs are on it for current/Watt hour consumption if you can. Duty cycle on it will always be a guess as it will cycle more if it has to work more (warm temps, frequent openings). That's where you should focus I'd say.

Surfpath · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

From the ARB Fridge Freezer web site.....

The all-new 50 qt model is able to maintain sub-freezing temperatures in 90° f heat, while only drawing an intermittent 1.35 amps per hour from a 12 volt power source. That's less than a single headlamp draws! Average DC power consumption: 0.7 to 2.3 amp hr.

And, hey, it's "Solar panel and generator compatible."

Boy, You sure can get all the options these days!;)

Also, from the Pdf manual:

Rated current
- 12 VDC 7.0 A
- 24 VDC 3.0 A

I am still a novice, but these claims seem slightly unconventional. Surely "drawing an intermittent 1.35 amps per hour" (12v) is confusionist. You either draw 1.35 amps an hour or you dont. Also they then conveniently say "Average DC power consumption: 0.7 to 2.3 amp hr" (but on a 12 or 24v system?).

Seems like a nice (but bit pricey) mini fridge. If you have to have a compressor fridge how bout this Whynter model for $300-400 cheaper?

"Voltage power AC (115V/ 60Hz - 65W/ 0.75A) or DC (12V/24V - 4.5A /2.5A Car Lighter Socket)"

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Cariboocoot thank you for the quick reply!

This is a link to the Fridge/Freezer... http://store.arbusa.com/ARB-Fridge-Freezer-50-Qt-10800472-P3626.aspx ARB lists the draw at "Average DC power consumption: 0.7 to 2.3 amp hr." I imagine that if it was initially brought to the correct temp via 110AC the DC consumption to "maintain" temperature would not often see the peak of 2.3 AMP HR? The fridge is designed to be run continuously on 12v/24v/ or 110AC so it would not have to be ever run through the inverter correct?

As for the panel I chose the 140 based on the fact that I have VERY limited space to work with, it is just a truck camper shell after all. I also wanted to "overkill" it for lack of a better word because of the fact MT is about as far North as I can get and much of the time I doubt the weather will be "ideal" for Solar. Open to any suggestions but remember space and weight to a degree is a huge factor.

I will adjust my purchase to reflect the 15 AMP charger if you think that is a good idea, I just noticed there is really a small increase in price between the two and I like the idea of "future proofing".

The MPPT Controller. I'm not sure what to think here, given my very limited space on top of the shell I was looking to squeeze the most out of the panel. The price difference here is quite large and maybe not worth the MPPT as you suggested

The Inverter, http://www.solar-electric.com/moin.html is this the one you are talking about? $240 seems expensive but I am the type of guy the buys things ONCE if at all possible so if the Morningstar is the best that will be the route I go.

For batteries i'm confused, I was actually thinking the 108AH was overkill for my needs. Two batteries is possible but will take up allot more space in the back of the truck where i'll be spending allot of time. I'm also very afraid of getting myself into a situation where the single 140 Panel will be unable to bring two batteries back to 100% and i'll run into the dreaded cycle of having batteries that only get back to 95% then 89% the following day etc etc thereby ruining them over time. I'm unclear what the name for this situation is called but i'd really like to avoid running the Honda every night to bring the batteries back to 100%.

If i have not explained myself or conveyed anything well enough please let me know and i'll look up whatever I need to in order to choose the correct components the first time. If at all possible I would rather spend more initially on a component than regret a purchase or have it limit the overall system in the future.

Thank you so much for your time and the information provided!

.

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Surfpath,

I'm not dead set on the ARB model but being an offroad guy and using ARB products for many years I know they build a quality product. The ARB has a 3 Year warranty and if you read the reviews from all accounts it is an exceptional product although I will admit it's pricey. I like the fact that it was designed from the ground up to be very rugged because it will get bounced around in the back of the truck quite a bit while traveling down washboard dirt roads etc etc. The power consumption part is a bit confusing but after several hours of reading on other forums about it's use 99% of the people using them are just plugging it directly into their "cigarette Lighter" and the fridge will run for an average of 48 hours or more before it detects low voltage and turns itself off to prevent a dead car/truck battery. It seems logical to me that having it on a dedicated system with a 108 AH AGM battery I would be ahead in that department. I don't have any real world experience though witch is why I came here, I can't think of a worse outcome that spending $800 on a fridge/freezer and having to run a Generator every single night to keep fish frozen!

mike95490 · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

I'd try to add a couple more batteries to take advantage of the charger when you run the generator.
Look for the Power Factor of the charger, the higher PF .95 is more efficient than a low PF of .62 and your
generator will burn less fuel.
Solar PV - well, your fridge will be your largest user. And to get solar to work, you have to park in full sun. Toasty!

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

mike95490,

I couldn't find a PF rating for the iota charger but it does say "Typical Efficiency >80%"? I'm not sure if that's good or not but the iota is all I have to look at because i'm looking on the Wind-Sun store. When I google I keep getting Bass Boat chargers LOL.
As for parking in the sun most times i'm trying to get warm but I can see how at certain times parking in the sun for Solar would not be ideal for temps inside the Camper Shell but generally it's pretty cool out and at night it's a non issue.

Cariboocoot · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

So the 'frige may use 1.35 Amps or 2.3 Amps or 7.0 Amps. This is why it's hard to determine how much power it will pull. The "intermittent per hour" business means when it is running it pulls the current, but it does not run all the time. I wonder if they haven't got their AC current draw mixed with the DC current draw? Or are confusing Amp hours with Amps?

Let's look at a worst case scenario of 7 Amps. If that were steady current in 12 hours it would use 84 Amp hours. That would be dead battery time. If it cycled 1/3 of the time it would use 28 Amps hours, which would be fine. Now divide 28 Amp hours by 12 hours and magically get ... 2.3 Amps per hour average. Hmm. Could be coincidence.

But at that rate 100 Amp hours of battery would hold it overnight. In fact 20 hours consumption at that average rate would be 46 Amp hours. That's almost half your battery capacity, which is about the maximum you'd want to go.

This is why I suggested seeing how much battery you can fit in the available space and planning around that. Refrigeration equipment is always an unknown.

And let's not forget you want some power available for your movie night. A Laptop may use 35 Watts or so. Two hours of running would be 70 Watt hours or 6 Amp hours on the battery. Not unreasonable, and your particular one may do better. Or worse.

If you actually have the refrigerator, laptop, et ceter you can measure their real current draw and calculate running times and get a more accurate picture of the power consumption. The big thing is to keep the 'frige on overnight; come the morning you can start the gen if needed. But it would be nice not to need to.

Blackcherry04 · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

OldManOwen wrote: »

mike95490,

I couldn't find a PF rating for the iota charger but it does say "Typical Efficiency >80%"? I'm not sure if that's good or not but the iota is all I have to look at because i'm looking on the Wind-Sun store. When I google I keep getting Bass Boat chargers LOL.
As for parking in the sun most times i'm trying to get warm but I can see how at certain times parking in the sun for Solar would not be ideal for temps inside the Camper Shell but generally it's pretty cool out and at night it's a non issue.

Don't believe all that PF hype, I tested it , it's just talking points for the uninformed. In theory it might work, in real life it doesn't.

http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?19402-Meanwell-PB-1000-vs-Iota-DLS-75&highlight=meanwell

If I was going to get the IOTA, I would get it with the Plug- in IQ4 module. It's the same price, but it can give you more options, since you can unplug it. and reset the charger.

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Cariboocoot,

Here is what I could find on the ARB...

Current Draw: 0.87 amps/hour*
*Power consumption tested at 3°C cabinet temperature, 26°C-31°C ambient temperature range, test duration of 66 hours and supply voltage of 12V DC

That was from an actual user on expeditionportal with a 60 Watt Panel.

http://www.arbusa.com/uploads/Newsletter/ARBmegaFridgeComparo.pdf Is a link to an actual test, I am however confused by the chart witch says "47.49 AH/48 Hours" Do they mean it used 47.49 AH TOTAL over a 48 hour period? If that's correct that sounds very reasonable for my setup. The fridge will be no more than 3 feet from the battery as well, not that that really helps if it's a 12v DC connection though I guess. I'm trying to wrap my head arround these figures, it's the AH that confuses me.

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

More info on the ARB Fridge/Freezer....

Fridges need less power than you think, and they don't kill your battery

Of course, each brand and model comes with their own performance nuances. Taking from the results of a test performed by Graham Jackson of Overland Journal (Summer 2010 issue), the four significant brands out there (Whynter, ARB, Engel, and National Luna) consume between .83 amps (ARB, National Luna) and 3.33 amps (Whynter). Keep in mind that a fridge doesn't run at all times, either. That means, for example, your 55 amp hour Optima yellow top battery will power the worst performer (Whynter) for about 16 hours with your engine off if the fridge ran non-stop. And it won't run non-stop. The ARB and National Luna will stay alive for over 60 hours, same conditions. Sure, that's not the whole story, but why bore the crud out of you with windy blather about amps and wire gauge and all that jazz?

Additionally, these fridges won't just keep things cool. No way, you paid dearly for one and it'll hold up its end of the bargain. You can keep popsicles frozen so solid they'll stick to your tongue on the first lick, even on a beach in Mexico in June. You won't be saying that about an $80 electric cooler.

About Battery Connection and Battery Protection -
Simple. They connect through a standard cigarette lighter style plug. Relieved? They're easy. And smart: don't worry about killing your battery. Fridges from ARB and National Luna just shut off when they sense the battery is getting too low, and you can adjust that setting yourself if you want.

I don't want to get too off topic, i'm hoping this is enough info about the ARB fridge/freezer? If my limited understanding of this math is correct .89AH*16 Hours =14.24 AH until back to full sun in a worst case scenario barring a snow storm witch would necessitate the use of the Generator anyway to bring the battery back up to 100% and i'd probably be in my sleeping bag watching a movie anyway LOL. With this data where do I stand with my current list and your recommendations?

Cariboocoot · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

If we look at the two pieces of data together it seems reasonable: an average draw by one user of 0.87 Amps over a 66 hour period. Multiply 0.87 * 48 hours and you get 41.76, so what with one thing and another the 47.49 Amp hours in a 48 hour period sounds not unreasonable. This means consumption is around 1 Amp, so perhaps the original 1.35 Amps average per hour is not unreasonable?

See how easy it is to understand refrigerator power consumption? NOT!

Some of the problem is that people doling out the numbers don't know how to express it in a useful manner. Sometimes they don't want to commit to a figure when they know that outside factors can alter it. Sometimes they just don't want you to understand. Which it is in this case I don't know.

So let's look at the downside: if the 'frige quits in the night due to insufficient power reserve (for whatever reason) how will that affect you?

Cariboocoot · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

"but why bore the crud out of you with windy blather about amps and wire gauge and all that jazz?"

Oh we like to be bored by that stuff around here! In fact we like to bore people with it ourselves.

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Cariboocoot wrote: »

If we look at the two pieces of data together it seems reasonable: an average draw by one user of 0.87 Amps over a 66 hour period. Multiply 0.87 * 48 hours and you get 41.76, so what with one thing and another the 47.49 Amp hours in a 48 hour period sounds not unreasonable. This means consumption is around 1 Amp, so perhaps the original 1.35 Amps average per hour is not unreasonable?

See how easy it is to understand refrigerator power consumption? NOT!

So let's look at the downside: if the 'frige quits in the night due to insufficient power reserve (for whatever reason) how will that affect you?

Cariboocoot,

I edited the above post with some "Math" haha. As attentive to these things as I am ( I have been told i'm slightly OCD) I would probably know beforehand if I was not going to have enough juice to last through the night and adjust accordingly, AKA Movie Time! That brings me to one of my original questions, in my research I was unable to find a "meter" or "digital display" of sorts that I could use to monitor the battery real-time. Is this not feasible for my small setup and only used in larger systems, am I resigned to actually checking the battery with my digital Voltmeter? I could certainly do that but it would be so much nicer to be able to simply glance at a "Gauge" to see what the panel was producing and what state the battery was in "real-time"

Blackcherry04 · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

I have a Norcold ( probably made by someone else ) I'v had at least 20 years, I think it's a 50 qt ?? When I have used it, it's worked great. It's heavy even when it's empty, you almost have to fill it where you plan to use it. I think mine work's better on DC, rather then with the 120/240 plug. I guess it has a power supply of some kind in it. Will it cool ??, heck yeah, if you turn it down to low it will freeze solid as a rock. Thats the tricky part, it has a knob with 1-10 on it and there is no way to discern where the exact temperature is at. One time I filled it half way with water and put drinks and went to bed, guess I had it to low, in the morning it was a solid block of Ice and the basket was frozen in. If I used it enough, I'd learn where to set it.

Cariboocoot · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Battery monitor is a really good idea with an AGM because you can't check SG on one.
http://www.solar-electric.com/metersmonitors.html
The Trimetric says it will work with batteries down to 10 Amp hours, so it ought to work with 100.
The MidNite battery gauge (not a true battery monitor) may even be suitable for your purposes. And it's a lot less money.

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Battery monitor is a really good idea with an AGM because you can't check SG on one.
http://www.solar-electric.com/metersmonitors.html
The Trimetric says it will work with batteries down to 10 Amp hours, so it ought to work with 100.
The MidNite battery gauge (not a true battery monitor) may even be suitable for your purposes. And it's a lot less money.

It seems like the MidNite Battery Gauge http://www.solar-electric.com/mnbcm.html would be a great way to monitor the state of the battery and I like the fact I can turn off the LED's at night. This is exactly what I was wanting minus the ability to see what the Panel was producing. For the price I think it will do the job! Thank you Cariboocoot!

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

As far as the Inverter goes the Morningstar http://www.solar-electric.com/mosu300wasiw.html sounds like a great unit however it does not have built in AC connections for a standard cord, would I just wire it to an off the shelf 110v GFI outlet? That would add more complexity and take up more space.

The Samlex 300 http://www.solar-electric.com/sa300wa12vos.html is almost half the price and has two built in AC connections however it says "The PST series is best for temporary or intermittent loads. If you plan to use devices for extended periods, you may want to consider the more efficient SA series of inverters from Samlex." When I look at the SA series they start at 1000w witch is way more than I need and very pricey.

Cariboocoot · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

OldManOwen wrote: »

As far as the Inverter goes the Morningstar http://www.solar-electric.com/mosu300wasiw.html sounds like a great unit however it does not have built in AC connections for a standard cord, would I just wire it to an off the shelf 110v GFI outlet? That would add more complexity and take up more space.

Yes you can wire it to a standard outlet. No point in using a GFI outlet because this is a camper and there really isn't any Earth ground to reference (I know they put them in all sorts of "mobile" inverters).

The Samlex 300 http://www.solar-electric.com/sa300wa12vos.html is almost half the price and has two built in AC connections however it says "The PST series is best for temporary or intermittent loads. If you plan to use devices for extended periods, you may want to consider the more efficient SA series of inverters from Samlex." When I look at the SA series they start at 1000w witch is way more than I need and very pricey.

The small Samlex units won't start a motor well either. But if you check what AC devices you have they probably won't even come close to 100 Watts, much less 300. When it talks about "extended periods" it really means at the rated output. At fractional Wattage it should be fine. I don't think you need the expense, capacity, and added consumption of a 1kW inverter.

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Yes you can wire it to a standard outlet. No point in using a GFI outlet because this is a camper and there really isn't any Earth ground to reference (I know they put them in all sorts of "mobile" inverters).

The small Samlex units won't start a motor well either. But if you check what AC devices you have they probably won't even come close to 100 Watts, much less 300. When it talks about "extended periods" it really means at the rated output. At fractional Wattage it should be fine. I don't think you need the expense, capacity, and added consumption of a 1kW inverter.

Thank you Cariboocoot, I updated my original post to reflect the changes!

westbranch · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Look at these , you might find a better fit, http://www.cotek.ca/

Is there any way you might fit a 3 way fridge into that small space? the propane fridge option would make life much easier electricity wise..

As a long time weekend and week long camper we went 'dry camping' a lot out in the bush where the best Fly fishing is. Our experience tells me a standard size (~100Ah) battery would last us about 3 days in the summer, reading, water pump, radio/CD player, exhaust fan, electronics to the water heater, and fridge insta-light if it goes out, ...no furnace, tv or Laptop... without recharging... but I think you will be dead in the water with what you are planning without more capacity ie 2 batteries, preferably Golf Cart type GC2, however these are the standard FLA (flooded) type, not AGM. BTW AGMs are less forgiving than FLA's to overcharging, something you will want to spec out for whatever charger you pick.
To optimize your camper temp vs sun exposure consider ground mounts that you stow inside, no roof penetrations! Park in the shade, Panels in the sun... you can probably use 10 AWG wire if the length is short enough.

hth

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

westbranch wrote: »

Look at these , you might find a better fit, http://www.cotek.ca/

Is there any way you might fit a 3 way fridge into that small space? the propane fridge option would make life much easier electricity wise..

As a long time weekend and week long camper we went 'dry camping' a lot out in the bush where the best Fly fishing is. Our experience tells me a standard size (~100Ah) battery would last us about 3 days in the summer, reading, water pump, radio/CD player, exhaust fan, electronics to the water heater, and fridge insta-light if it goes out, ...no furnace, tv or Laptop... without recharging... but I think you will be dead in the water with what you are planning without more capacity ie 2 batteries, preferably Golf Cart type GC2, however these are the standard FLA (flooded) type, not AGM. BTW AGMs are less forgiving than FLA's to overcharging, something you will want to spec out for whatever charger you pick.
To optimize your camper temp vs sun exposure consider ground mounts that you stow inside, no roof penetrations! Park in the shade, Panels in the sun... you can probably use 10 AWG wire if the length is short enough.

hth

Westbranch,

I am so lost now! All of the off-road forums where I did my research about the ARB Fridge/Freezer describe the users running them directly off of their vehicles battery for 24-48 hours with no problems before starting up their truck and driving off. Then I read your post and I see "Dead in the water", is the 108AH battery really not going to run the fridge even one night? Is it that the 140 Panel wont bring it back to full charge the next day? I honestly thought the 140 Panel and 108AH battery would be far more than I needed. If this small system won't even allow me to keep my food cold and fresh then I need to rethink my plan from start to finish, I really don't want to have to go back to Ice in a cooler.
To be clear this is a camper "shell" a Leer 122 to be exact, NOT a camper that has a shower, toilet etc etc. Given that, having a system that "folds up" and stows away is out of the question, there would be no room to sleep and I don't want to worry about it being stolen while i'm out on the river. If I had to lock it up during the day while I was fishing I would get no benefit from the system. I'm not sure where to go from here.

Cariboocoot · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Buy the refrigerator you want to use. Run it from a 12 Volt source that won't collapse. Measure the current it uses. Time its cycling. Finally try it on a 90 Amp hour RV/Marine battery: leave it run 'til the battery Volt is down to 12. See how long it takes. In other words check out the functionality before you go off into the woods with an inadequate battery.

Really the battery capacity and panel Wattage are the only two questions here. If you can try out the equipment before you are out in the wilderness you'll know if you need to add another battery or more charging capacity or both.

westbranch · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Owen, I did not mean to scare you off, just to let you know the weak spot in your system, the battery capacity (Ah). Coot has it spot on, about testing it out... or try before you buy if you can arrange a loan from a friend to test out the draw of the fridge/freezer?

your question , yes it would run it for 1 night, but maybe not 2, and if there was no sun it may go lower than the safe discharge level of 50%... you run the very real risk of damaging the battery with a 70 or 80% discharge and not being able to recover it fully...

That is the weak spot in this project... It sounds like a good product, we just you don't know the 'real' consumption level.

We can nit pick here at times, but in hopes that we help you have a good 'solar experience', so that high expectations are not made that can not be met.

I believe that if you were prepared to buy a new battery yearly/bi-yearly you could probably go with the proposed set-up, we just want you to have one that will keep you happy for years, without a constant cash injection... it's all in the fine details.

Kind of like your previous life, details...

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

westbranch wrote: »

Owen, I did not mean to scare you off, just to let you know the weak spot in your system, the battery capacity (Ah). Coot has it spot on, about testing it out... or try before you buy if you can arrange a loan from a friend to test out the draw of the fridge/freezer?

your question , yes it would run it for 1 night, but maybe not 2, and if there was no sun it may go lower than the safe discharge level of 50%... you run the very real risk of damaging the battery with a 70 or 80% discharge and not being able to recover it fully...

That is the weak spot in this project... It sounds like a good product, we just you don't know the 'real' consumption level.

We can nit pick here at times, but in hopes that we help you have a good 'solar experience', so that high expectations are not made that can not be met.

I believe that if you were prepared to buy a new battery yearly/bi-yearly you could probably go with the proposed set-up, we just want you to have one that will keep you happy for years, without a constant cash injection... it's all in the fine details.

Kind of like your previous life, details...

I'll take that advice then and start with the fridge. I was trying to think of a way to test the 12v draw over a 24 hour period. I think I could plug it directly into the truck for testing purposes with my Craftsman charger keeping the battery maintained and that would give me a real world worst case scenario. The cab of the truck in direct sun will be much hotter than under the camper shell with airflow through the screened windows (it's 85+ in TN right now).
I see the http://www.solar-electric.com/kiacpomome.html but that's for AC and I don't think that will be relevant here. I have a digital multi-meter but i'm unsure how to test for anything other than Resistance or Voltage though. I might need another tool! Adapt and Overcome.

--EDIT-- OK, refreshed my brain with a quick look at the instruction manual. I see it's possible to measure Amperage quite easily with the Multi-Meter however the downside is I will not be able to record the data. Idea's here? I guess I could go out once every hour and record the draw, making sure to note whether the unit is running or not. At the hottest part of the day I could record exactly how many minutes the unit is actually running in 60 minutes? Seems tedious, but anything I see from Fluke that would make it easier costs as much as a good battery! Idea's?

Surfpath · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

OldmanOwen,
Your plan to travel around in your truck is just too cool. I agree, buy one of those fridges (from all those confusing numbers perhaps the ARB draws less), test it out and then and craft a charging system accordingly. Here's an example I read about a chap who ran one of those ARB fridges in his FJ cruiser for a couple of days camping, supplementing his battery with a 60 watt panel. A different set-up than your more long-term proposal, but it may add some insight.

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/camping-equipment/89450-solar-power-camping-overlanding-trips-installed-6-27-2009-a.html

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Surfpath wrote: »

OldmanOwen,
Your plan to travel around in your truck is just too cool. I agree, buy one of those fridges (from all those confusing numbers perhaps the ARB draws less), test it out and then and craft a charging system accordingly. Here's an example I read about a chap who ran one of those ARB fridges in his FJ cruiser for a couple of days camping, supplementing his battery with a 60 watt panel. A different set-up than your more long-term proposal, but it may add some insight.

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/camping-equipment/89450-solar-power-camping-overlanding-trips-installed-6-27-2009-a.html

Surfpath,
Thank you so much for that link! He has the older model ARB that is less efficient and was able to make it work wonderfully with a 60A panel, this makes me MUCH more optimistic about my plans! That was exactly what I needed to see. I just need a Kill O Watt device like sold on Wind-Sun that is designed to be placed in-line of a 12v system, if they even make such a thing? Sorry I have been reading for about 6 hours now, the brain is a little tired.

--EDIT-- WOW, just for kicks I looked up the 120 Watt panel.... $1,699 !! http://www.amazon.com/Powerfilm-Foldable-Charger-FM16-7200-F16-7200/dp/B008L1QWRK That would be the ultimate for me but it's more than my total budget of $1,200 just for the panel! Cool technology though!

OldManOwen · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Buy the refrigerator you want to use. Run it from a 12 Volt source that won't collapse. Measure the current it uses. Time its cycling. Finally try it on a 90 Amp hour RV/Marine battery: leave it run 'til the battery Volt is down to 12. See how long it takes. In other words check out the functionality before you go off into the woods with an inadequate battery.

Really the battery capacity and panel Wattage are the only two questions here. If you can try out the equipment before you are out in the wilderness you'll know if you need to add another battery or more charging capacity or both.

Just found the exact test you wanted me to run.... http://www.jk-forum.com/jk-electrical-lighting-sound-systems-13/arb-fridge-freezer-test-run-108185/ 126 Hours from a Duralast with a 1.5 Watt Solar charger before it shut off. I can live with that!

Rybren · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

It's important to note that the fellow drained the battery - and likely killed it. So, to play it safe and give yourself some reserve, you'd only want to count on running it about a quarter of the time that he did. (You don't want to go below 50% SOC)

vtmaps · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

OldManOwen wrote: »

I just need a Kill O Watt device like sold on Wind-Sun that is designed to be placed in-line of a 12v system, if they even make such a thing?

They do make such a thing: Doc Watson. About $60.
www.rc-electronics-usa.com/ammeters/rv-battery-monitor.html

--vtMaps

westbranch · June 2013

Re: Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

Owen, you need to know the voltage that the LVD operates at. A lot of LVD's kick in at 10.? - 11.? volts and that is too low
If it is below 12.0 volts that is going to kill the battery... (as Ryben wrote)

Help me build a system for my F250 Super Duty please!

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