Inverter with the hicups?

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Photowhit
Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Advanced Solar Electric Technical Forum #1
Well a curious thing has been happening, my 3 year old prosine 1800 hardwire, has statred having hicups, It appear that when switching into power saver mode it shuts every thing off for a fraction of a second.

This is just enough to pop on some electronic equipment, TV and AC both have popped on in the last 2 weeks. I usually turn off the TV via power strip and I unplugged the AC, just seams odd.

Any reset for this inverter? I haven't checked the manual.. I'll defrost the fridge next week and will shut it down for a few hours, perhaps it will reset?
Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Inverter with the hicups?

    i'd start shopping for a spare ! I don't think it will get better on it's own.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Inverter with the hicups?

    The old Prosine had an approximate idle draw of 60 watts. Yes, 60.0 Watts...

    Then they dropped that to about 1/3 (20 watts) by making it hiccup, like you call it, to reduce idle draw until a minimum amount of load was applied. Then it would come on full.

    Does it stop this behaviour when you turn on a larger load ?

    Not sure why it would "pop" your TV, unless maybe you mean it pops on and off and on and off, etc... Maybe the Prosine's current sense is broken ?

    boB
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Inverter with the hicups?

    I've never witnessed the AC coming on or the TV, both happened once, I might have left the TV on but I'm pretty good about turning every thing off. The AC has a delay so I might have knocked something into it, might even have picked up some start cue from a new motion sensor light (remotes on window air are odd to me)

    Mine is one of the newer ones, It now has a noticable blink when going into power saver mode. When I have anything that draw much current at all, it is not a problem, couldn't sleep Sunday and Monday nights (start of allergy season) and I had no problem running the TV for 5-6 hours either night, the fridge still pops on and it wakes just fine, but when I turned the TV off, via power strip, shortly after a second power strip I run small chargers(phone,etc) on will blink.

    Perhaps it's always blinked and I haven't notice, but I doubt it as I've noticed it a couple times each day now. I do have a spare, and I will be running a 10-15 watt electric fence soon so I suspect the load will be enough to keep it out of power saver....
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Inverter with the hicups?

    Yeah, just ALWAYS connect up a 60 or 100 watt light bulb (or so) and it
    should stay on. Maybe it has a search mode defeat but I can't remember.

    I do remember playing with those units when they first came out and then one
    like you have with the search mode.

    boB
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Inverter with the hicups?

    Hi I have a 1800 ps xantrex. There is 2 modes either powersave on, or power save off. When power save is off the draw is 1 amp (12 volts) so approx 12 watts. In this mode there is no hesitation when any thing is started.
    However in power save mode the unit scans for a load ( From memory every 2 seconds). If it finds a load it will start.
    BUT if the load is too small it wont start, also with a small load like one cell phone charger it will cycle on and off because the load is not enough for the load sensing circuit to keep it on. Maybe this is what you are experiencing?
    Regards
    Peter
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Inverter with the hicups?
    petertearai wrote: »
    Hi I have a 1800 ps xantrex. There is 2 modes either powersave on, or power save off. When power save is off the draw is 1 amp (12 volts) so approx 12 watts. In this mode there is no hesitation when any thing is started.
    However in power save mode the unit scans for a load ( From memory every 2 seconds). If it finds a load it will start.
    BUT if the load is too small it wont start, also with a small load like one cell phone charger it will cycle on and off because the load is not enough for the load sensing circuit to keep it on. Maybe this is what you are experiencing?
    Regards
    Peter
    Peter, your description also applies exactly to my 1800/12 ps Xantrex. I'm extremely happy with it, but like you say, some very small loads, like "wall warts", TV standby parasitic loads etc can cause a bit of confusion for the Power Save mode. When it scans in Power Save, if it sees certain small loads that may normally present as a much larger load for just an instant while capacitors charge up, or transformers initially stabilize when power is first applied, this can result in the Power Save being confused. Making sure such loads are either disconnected or switched off with a power bar etc, eliminates the problem. It's not a defect with the inverter, it's the initial current inrush behavior of some items we connect to it that causes the PS mode to be confused, by presenting a load that quickly vanishes.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Inverter with the hicups?

    Thanks every one,

    I'm not sure what the issue is, but it does have something to do with tiny loads.

    The inverter was cycling on and off power saver. The only 2 cganges I've made was the dis connecting of my work bench, which only has a dewalt pod battery charger, which is reported to be a smart charger, only looking when a battery is installed, and the a/c which I had left plugged in and have since summer.

    My guess is it is the A/C and I have had enough load to keep the inverter from cycling into energy saver mode. Don't recall the blink in the past. I turned off the strip with the phone kindle and nokia n800 chargers on and the inverter went into energy saver mode and stayed until the fridge kicked on!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Inverter with the hicups?

    Great Looks like just doing whot it is designed to do.
    I suppose if the auto start was adjustable you could sort it out,but alas no.
    However in all other respects Ive found it to be a very good inverter and value for money.
    Regards peter
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: Inverter with the hicups?
    petertearai wrote: »
    Great Looks like just doing whot it is designed to do.
    I suppose if the auto start was adjustable you could sort it out,but alas no.
    However in all other respects Ive found it to be a very good inverter and value for money.
    Regards peter

    The way the Power Save works, is to send out an extremely short pulse of 115 VAC about every 2 seconds, and check for the presence of loads. If no sufficient loading, it instantly shuts down again until the next cycle. That's where some small loads with brief initial inrush can trick the PS into powering up the inverter, only to find the load is not sustained.
    I suppose the problem could be avoided by sending out a longer pulse and checking if the initial apparent load is sustained, but to keep inverter consumption as low as it now is in Power Save mode, the checking cycle would have to be stretched out to the point where delays in startup would be a pain in the donkey. Power bars on such small loads are a better solution, at least for me.
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  • trkarl
    trkarl Solar Expert Posts: 33 ✭
    #11
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    Re: Inverter with the hicups?

    My ProSine 2.0 does the same thing in power saver mode. I use it to run a chest freezer in the garage once in a while. Turns on when the compressor kicks on and then blinks the light on the front of the freezer every 2 seconds when it is idling.
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