Fire Time, again....

Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
We kind knew this fire was not going to be over soon. It seems like they don't do that anymore. The new Cal Fire 747 flew over us last night a few times. One of the fire family lost a local guy when the fire break road he was cutting collapsed. It sent him down into the steep canyon.
If you have not had a chance to see the 747, (you are lucky) here is a link. Funny that last week we had 30 miles of visibility and now it is 300 feet  :#
https://www.firehouse.com/tech-comm/video/12365007/watch-747-supertanker-drop-payload-on-ca-fire
"we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
 http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
E-mail [email protected]

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Comments

  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,905Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    Best wishes to you and your family/friends/firefighters up there Dave.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,915Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    We just had a near miss across the street.  The KOA campground has a huge pond, and the chopper can shuttle water drops every 2 or 3 minutes, held it to < 10 acres, but still  sphincter puckering. Pic from my window at 10:30am when it started, then I packed, i had no time to find out how fast it was moving, drove 1/4 mile to my gate, parked and waited in the shade wondering how long the cell phone battery would last tacking pics.

    other pics & some water drop  vid   http://www.luckymonkeysranch.com/

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Bill, Appreciate it! 
    The thing that seems different this year is the fire management team is using Drones much more. They are illuminating targets below the fixed wing assets. 
    http://www.goldrushcam.com/sierrasuntimes/index.php/news/local-news/14621-photos-of-ferguson-fire-near-yosemite-national-park-in-mariposa-county

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Mike, your situation is the one that concerns me the most.  A neighbor starting a fire and by the time it is on my scanner, the fire has gone past me. Good to look out the window ;)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 5,090Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Dave those are pretty hot fires!!  Did you note the Mandatory Evac. orders at the end ...  Is Mike in any of them?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Neither of us is under mandatory evac yet, and if I have read Mike correctly over the years, he would do the same thing as I would.  

    My history with wildfire is that if I do not stay and put out the spot fires around my property, the deck will probably burn and set the home on fire. I have 1/2" pin holes in it from previous fires. They are not from knots either.

    When they have asked us to leave I always say I will consider it if they send an engine. They do not have enough engines, and so it goes.

    Here is a link for some very good quality NIOSH masks that the fire guys gave me a few years back. They work very well for smoke. I might fit one on my cat, if he would let me ;)

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002YKBV2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    It is 1 pm and the air attack is still grounded for smokey skies....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,915Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    I did not evac, and the 10 acre fire was contained by 4pm.  Smoked all night, while a crew mopped up.
    But when I saw the smoke that close, there was no time to rearrange the deck chairs, set up sprinklers and hoses. Wind could have moved it across the road in 2 minutes and then only 2500 '  up and over the hill to my house.  Pack and go was all I could do.
    after 30 min, when I had a handle on the progress, I went and packed more, and sat at the driveway for another couple hours.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    glad to hear that Mike!

    We have had enough of the fire thing that we are hardened for it. All deck chairs are made of metal and we only take cushions out when we are there. Nothing plastic within 200 feet. There are 3 fire pumps and only one side of the house has to be hosed down. My neighbor and I let eachother know when we go more than 30 minutes from here. The wives also can hose it down, and have...The mini-split is what makes it possible as there is no way to stay with this kind of smoke. Power is out for 700 homes now.

    We pack the truck in the garage but we never leave because it is far more dangerous on the roads out of here. 200 feet of defensible space, a steel roof with cement siding and stainless covered rain gutters bring the fire guys here. Unfortunately it is after the fire has gone by. This year is the worst as they took down all the bark beetle pines and they are all over the sides of the roads. Next winter we will burn it all.

    They just brought the body of the heavy fire equipment operator out of the canyon with officers of emergency service trucks. The procession went under a 75 foot flag from a ladder truck down HWY 49 to the coroner. about 300 lined the streets. The fire is getting worse and more evacs. 10,000 acres now.  We keep hearing the fire command channel go to cell phones so I know that is not good news.

    Happy Hour! Later!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 5,090Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Dave, tried the link but the  Amazon   Robo Bot Killer  would not accept my 5 different tries,   $^&%#! . Guess if you are outside the US, you are auto lumped in with the Ruskies... 
    Mike and Dave, We also  just passed our 1 Year After anniversary of our worst fire year ever, and the number of friends that are still affected by PTSD...   took a few days more to relax and then the twitches and jitters pass too....

    Here is a link to a very simple wild fire protection set up that  has been proven,  'under fire'...pardon the pun, friends had alll their
    It contains some very logical things to do in advance to fire proof your property and structures as much as possible.
    This is the original document:

    then there is the latest Gov. document.
    There was a simpler 1 page schematic  that they expanded into about 7 pages for city like dwellers.

    I've started to install a more permanent version, than the temporary one depicted,  so far buried  80' of 2" PVC pipe for the main house.
    Will be 1 1/2" to the guest house.
    Will use metal pipe in some above ground parts. that should keep the water flowing where we want it....??...
     
    I read parts of the Survival  Document, good stuff in there too.
    Will be listening for you both to post more updates.
    Hunker Down and may the spirit(s) be with you and last till this is over.
    May Good Fortune run your way.

    Eric

     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Posts: 1,033Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Here's an image of the product, called 3M 8511PB1-A-PS Particulate N95 Respirator with Valve

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Eric and also for the pix littleharbor2.  These particular "cool flow" masks really help keep you from fogging sunglasses and other eye protection.

    When they are properly on your face, if you cup your hands over them you should feel the mask pull in when you breath in.

    300 feet of visibility again this am. No ash is a good thing though! The westerly wind pattern kicks in at noon so it is a snow day until then. We have a few people coming over to stay as their power is out. Building a place for a few dogs also and then the solar biz, if I feel like it :)

    Pretty straightforward here on fighting a fire as wind is under 15 knots. I would never take the chance if I had Diablo or Santa Anna wind speeds like they do near the coast. 
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,915Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Dave, what's your solar harvest in the smoke, and do you have to run a backup genset ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    No genset but with 6 KW of solar I get at least 1,500 watts which keeps the cooling and house loads happy. Normally this is at 6:30 am but it is later now at 7:30 because of the 300 feet visibility. When the west wind blows this out in a couple hours I will be able to go outside and pump some water up from the storage. 

    Seventeen months ago I went to Lithium batteries and now at 10:30am I am at 92% full. In good conditions the bank is full at 8:30 am.
    We still only use 3KWH for storage but being over 95% efficient in and out, is pretty amazing on how fast this happens. The battery itself is over 99% efficient.

    Having this much solar is probably not cost efficient over a small genset. I have got to do it as I advertise it. It is only money also.
    It also pays off in the winter where the design work comes in. One of my fire guest tonight is bringing his Chevy Volt over. I really like his car and always tell him that he can charge it here, or just park it here. I want one :)

    This just came in on the cell from the Sheriff's nixle

    Mariposa County Smoke Related Air Quality Index (AQI)

    Smoke from the Ferguson Fire is impacting the Mariposa County Air Pollution Control District. Smoke Levels are in the HAZARDOUS range in some areas but is expected to clear by midday.  AQI information shown below is based on the levels recorded this AM. Your current local conditions could vary. 



      PERSONS WITH HEALTH CONDITIONS THAT ARE AFFECTED BY SMOKE SHOULD CONSIDER RELOCATING TO A SMOKE FREE AREA WHEN SMOKE IS PRESENT

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Marc KurthMarc Kurth Posts: 446Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Wow. I haven't been here lately and logged on to see this! Wow, again.

    Been through a forest fire myself.  (1,697 homes all around me went, but not ours because we prepped and we were willing to stand and fight) so I do understand the concept.

    Wishes for fair winds to you both!
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 5,090Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Marc, what/how did you prepare?  water supply, clearing around the home, etc???
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Hey Marc! Starting day 5 and the smoke outside is getting old. Really nice indoors :) 

    Fire is still growing and thunderstorms in the forecast tomorrow.
    Air attack can hardly do much as the inversion is trapping smoke most of the daylight hours. Maybe Elon and SpaceX can get us some drone tankers to take the human pilot risk down.

    Eric we cut everything down within 200 feet that was not a hardwood (oaks) tree and limbed the oaks up 15 feet. The weed wacking keeps the brush from coming back. 

    Coffee time!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Marc KurthMarc Kurth Posts: 446Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭

    We lived in a dense/deep forest with towering pines in the 50-70 year old range. We built a limestone-faced house with double pane tempered glass windows, specifically rated for fires. When I decided to move there, I knew that fire help was not going to come quickly.

    Yep, my clear-cut area was 50’-60’ on all sides with green grass - and complete removal of all “ladder fuel” for another 200’ into the trees. Yes, that is a HUGE visual compromise in the woods, but I was raised in Northern California redwoods………..

    Big concrete septic tanks make great low cost water tanks - really cheap to bury when the backhoe is already there. A simple float valve maintains water level while using the tank/pump system for regular irrigation duty keeps the water fresh. A separate gasoline powered pump (I’m a Honda fan) driving large impulse sprinklers mounted high, are incredibly effective. The enemy is fighting the instinct to deploy your water too soon. I read after the fact, that candles melt at 105F to 120F. None of our candles were deformed, and the ambient was around 100F when the fore started.

    Lastly, my large welding tank of O2 is perfectly breathable if needed. Most people will argue about that, but they are factually wrong. A full sized "T" tank holds around 900 liters of oxygen. A person needs to breathe around 10 liters per minute - at about 20% O2.

    Marc





    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Good info Marc!  Much safer now in Texas right? 

    Tonight will be 7 days of this fire and at 22,000 acres it is only 7% contained. Really hard on the locals without power. We have a group here. 

    If it was not so smokey outside I would put them to work :open_mouth:

    The screen below shows how expensive these fires are and the need for Android robots and drones for the air attack. The list below does not include it. 

    They did get the power on for Yosemite National park.



    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mcgivormcgivor Posts: 2,212Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20 #20
    What's happening to California? The ground subsiding from over pumping the aquifers, wildfires burning the vegetation which protects the snow which feeds the rivers and aquifers, Lake Mead which supplies much of the water for agriculture, as well as Los Angeles, is drying up.......is this the reality of climate change with the help of human needs and greeds?
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 

  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,905Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    edited July 20 #21
    Ever since well pumping/redirecting rivers has been done, using groundwater faster than recharge rate has been pretty standard around the world.

    Much (50% to 100%+) of the "coastal sea level rise" (around the world) has been due to ground subsidence from local fresh water pumping (ground compaction/lack of rebuilding land from flooding in delta regions is another cause).

    Not to minimize those issues... Once the groundwater has been pumped and the earth structure that held the waters collapsed, there is no good way to recharge those loss aquifers. There has been some attempts at seasonal recharge in California, but I suspect those ar efew and far between and really do not do much compared to the problem.

    Short term, California has always had a pretty standard rain/drought cycle:

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/11/22/worst-drought-in-california-history-not-really/

    I could not find the chart I saw before... But long term (geological time frames), California has had 300 year long droughts. We are just seeing "normal" here.

    California native species has evolved in the fire/rain cycles... Redwood trees have "fire resistant" bark. There are trees that only release seeds from pine cones in a fire, and some plant seeds that only germinate after a fire.

    The "fire problem" was partially the long term country wide policy of putting out all fires from all causes (natural and human caused). Many of California's regions live with regular small fires that meander through the brush/dead materials on the ground. The policy of putting out all fires created these large fires that reach up into the trees that are relatively fire resistant, and burn them down too... Plus sterilize the ground from the high temperatures.

    The Native Americans used burns to control their environment too... They found that game prefered the forest edge (to open meadows) vs a large forest.

    But as with all government policies--They are "flexible":

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/as-western-us-smolders-forest-service-suspends-let-it-burn-policy/

    Add more people moving to rural areas. And policies that prevent clearing of trees from around homes (more and more people move to forests and clear sites, then less and less forest to move to). Not any easy solutions (population limitation anyone?).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    The only thing I would add to Bill is the politics of Fire. Our governor is against controlled burns and fire breaks. The feds allow it and do quite a bit in their lands. I think California spends so much on everything else, that there is little left for prevention. :*  
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,915Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    I just saw new Miraposa evac orders , stay safe Dave.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Mike! Yesterday the high pressure weakened and the air attack was able to fly for the first time in 3 days.

    The other thing about the politics of fire in this state is that as long as an active fire is burning, Calfire does the preventative and I think that prolongs the fires. It is the only way they can do much as once the fire is under control, the resources go way down. It is Calfires way of doing the much needed preventative fire breaks and such. Just as Bill wrote, decades of putting out fire very quickly and the inevitable growth of brush that the Indians dealt with before.

    Fire last night was about 4 miles out and quite beautiful except that people are really hurting at many levels.  :'(
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mcgivormcgivor Posts: 2,212Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭
    By Indians you do refer to Native Americans, the first Europeans to reach North America thought they were in India, boy were they wrong.....the rest is history. :D
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 

  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,846Registered Users ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think "indigenous" is the correct term de jour.

    The India thing was maybe something the first Europeans claimed in order to get financing for their trips? Don't think there were many Musks back then looking to finance frontier exploration just for the heck of it :smile:
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • mcgivormcgivor Posts: 2,212Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭✭
    I up the anti, First Nations, Trump that...no not Donald  :)

    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 

  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,846Registered Users ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it's the bands/tribes that are "First Nations", and the individual members are "indigenous". It's getting hard to keep track of though :smile:
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 4,021Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21 #29
    Start your own thread please. Give some thought to how hard this is for people here! You can PM Bill and ask him!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,905Super Moderators, Administrators admin
    As long as people are using terms that are historically accurate for the naming of "peoples" of the world by the person posting, lets not get wrapped around the axle.

    China... No, it is 中國 or Middle Kingdom/Country.

    If you look at the history of just the name China, you will see that it different for different peoples:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China

    I once called Taiwan Formosa once decades ago, and she got really upset. It was an insult to her (she was born and raised in Taipei).

    San Francisco is called "Old Gold Mountain" in Chinese (from gold rush days).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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