3 30 watts led lights to run for dusk to dawn

DarkstormNHDarkstormNH Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭
Gents I plan on running 3 30 watts led on a dusk to dawn sensor, what would be the minimum setup to support this.
can I run them  on one 12 volts battery 100ah sealed , one 85 watts panel and a 500 watts inverter, small pwm controller
 setup would be in petionville haiti

please advise

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 27,055 admin
    That is going to be quiet a large system (assuming you do not use smaller lights plus, possibly, motion sensors on the larger light). 30 Watts of LED lightning is a lot...

    Anyway, here is the basic math--alter to fit your needs.

    • Est. 12 hours of lighting per night
    • 12 hours * 3 lights * 30 Watts per light = 1,080 Watt*Hours per day average (assume 12 or 24 volt DC lamps)
    • Battery: 1,080 WH per day * 2 days * 1/0.50 max discharge * 1/12 volts = 360 AH @ 12 volts (4x 6 volt @ 200 AH "golf cart" batteries)

    Charging--Suggest 5-13% rate of charge, with 10%+ for full time off grid usage:

    • 360 AH * 14.5 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller deratings * 0.05 rate of charge = 339 Watt array minimum
    • 360 AH * 14.5 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller deratings * 0.10 rate of charge = 678 Watt array nominal
    • 360 AH * 14.5 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller deratings * 0.13 rate of charge = 881 Watt array "cost effective" maximum

    Then there is based on loads and hours of sun per day... A fixed array:

    http://www.solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-irradiance.html

    Petionville
    Average Solar Insolation figures

    Measured in kWh/m2/day onto a solar panel set at a 57° angle from vertical:
    (Optimal winter settings)
    Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun
    6.00
     
    5.91
     
    5.58
     
    5.31
     
    5.27
     
    5.97
     
    Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
    5.94
     
    5.29
     
    5.23
     
    5.27
     
    5.42
     
    5.74
     
    Now--I would use a 65% to 75% fudge factor for a system that must run 365 days per year and supply needed power (allowing for streaks of less than average weather, etc.)... Your choice:
    • 1,080 WH per day * 1/0.61 DC system eff * 1/0.75 continuous usage factor * 1/5.74 hours of sun per day = 411 Watt array "minimum"

    So--Somewhere between 411 and 678 Watt array based on above guesses (a bit larger if 12 volt @ 400 AH  battery bank).

    Now--With our eyes, we see light as "logarithmic" curve. More or less, a factor of 2 change in light wattage is barely perceptible. A change of a factor of 10 is a "night vs day" difference.

    So, if your 3x 90 Watt lamps were 3x 15 Watt lamps--Nobody would know the difference. And make your loads 1/2 as large. And make the solar+battery system 1/2 as expensive to install and maintain.

    Other options--Use 1.5 watt lamps on all night, and use 15 Watt lamps with motion detectors to save more energy.

    Anyway, a starting point for discussion.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mcgivormcgivor Registered Users Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24 #3
    Assuming 12 hours on, the total energy used would be 3 × 30 ×12 = 1080 Wh or 90Ah, which would need a battery of, at very least, double the amount of energy used, to prevent discharge below 50%, so a battery of 200Ah would be better suited. It's always best to allow for a day of little production so double that to provide insurance, 400Ah. Inverters use energy themselves, lost as heat, which makes them less than 100% efficient, typically ~85-90%, so this needs to be added to the total load. A more efficient method would be to use 12VDC LED's, as long as the runs are relatively short.

    What comes out of the battery needs to be replaced, so using the 1080Wh model with an average 5.5 hours per day, 1080÷ 5.5 = 196 W, but as panels rarely produce their rated output, typically 80%, the result would be approximately 196 × 1.2 = 235W needed. These figures are using optimum year round tilt facing south, with a static array. However as the battery is now 400Ah, the array needs to be large enough to recoup for a lost days production, so a 500W array  would be more realistic, perhaps even slightly larger if there are overcast days regularly.

    This is a rough calculation just to provide what approximately is required to avoid dissapointment.

    Edit, seems Bill worked his magic and posted whilst I was creating/calculating, thought about deleting but what a waste of my time.
      1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider 150 60 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 8×T105 GC 24V nominal 

  • DarkstormNHDarkstormNH Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭
    mcgivor said:
    Assuming 12 hours on, the total energy used would be 3 × 30 ×12 = 1080 Wh or 90Ah, which would need a battery of, at very least, double the amount of energy used, to prevent discharge below 50%, so a battery of 200Ah would be better suited. It's always best to allow for a day of little production so double that to provide insurance, 400Ah. Inverters use energy themselves, lost as heat, which makes them less than 100% efficient, typically ~85-90%, so this needs to be added to the total load. A more efficient method would be to use 12VDC LED's, as long as the runs are relatively short.

    What comes out of the battery needs to be replaced, so using the 1080Wh model with an average 5.5 hours per day, 1080÷ 5.5 = 196 W, but as panels rarely produce their rated output, typically 80%, the result would be approximately 196 × 1.2 = 235W needed. These figures are using optimum year round tilt facing south, with a static array. However as the battery is now 400Ah, the array needs to be large enough to recoup for a lost days production, so a 500W array  would be more realistic, perhaps even slightly larger if there are overcast days regularly.

    This is a rough calculation just to provide what approximately is required to avoid dissapointment.

    Edit, seems Bill worked his magic and posted whilst I was creating/calculating, thought about deleting but what a waste of my time


    Gents 

    Thank you very much the led's are 30 watts each 5k brightness i think they call that kelvin any ways i will lokk for dc led that can provide the amount of brightness or I will setup the two 315 watts panel a small mppt charge controler and a small inverter
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 27,055 admin
    McGivor---No problem. Different view points of same problem gives more options.

    DarkStorm,

    There are lots of LED Flood Lights out there that will run at 12 vdc or 24 vdc (higher wattage?).

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0752GWL17
    https://www.amazon.com/STASUN-Security-Equivalent-Waterproof-Floodlight/dp/B076JCGT27

    The 5,000 Kelvin is the "color temperature" of the LED. More or less, you will get more light from a 6,000K LED--But the "color" is very blue white and gives very "washed out" colors.

    5000 k I like for a flashlight--Still very efficient, but not so sickly white outdoor illumination.

    4000 k and below is "warm white". Nice to use around the house. The CRI (color rendering index) is typically higher for warm LEDs.

    Here is a link to a (pretty nifty) Chinese flashlight mfg. He has a good example of color temperature vs what it looks like (scroll down a bit):

    https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-Convoy-S2-Black-Cree-XML2-U2-1A-AMC7135-3-2-Group-3-5-Mode/330416_1614309086.html

    I highly suggest you get one light (or several different brand/models/types) and see what you like.

    12 VDC is nice for a smaller system... 24 VDC based lights will be easier to send the power over longer distances.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm afraid you have you CRI information backwards BB. The highest CRI's are found with "daylight" bulbs.......generally in the 5200K to 6500K range. I've sold hundreds of such bulbs. With CRI's ranging from 92 to 99 as I recall. 

    Lumens also tend to be highest in the yellow and green spectrums found in the common and traditional "cool white" fluorescents. This may have changed over the past decade with so many traditional theories being literally turned upside down. 

    I think the traditional fluorescent bulb, used maybe 90% of the time,  had about a 4500K spectrum? Maybe even 4200K. 

    Its all personal preference anyway. Warmer bulbs (high in yellow and green) lend a more golden skin color for photography....generally more flattering. In a way.....skillful photography is practicing the art of deception. In a way. 

    http://www.westinghouselighting.com/color-temperature.aspx
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭✭
    As for OP.....I may suggest motion activated lights and hope your pets don't like to "perform under the lights". Also......consider solar lights with the expectation of periodic battery replacement assuming the quality is high enough to outlast the batteries.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 27,055 admin
    For CRI and filament bulbs--Yes, high CRI goes with Daylight "high temperature" filaments.

    For LEDs (and florescent tubes), it is more complicated. The black body radiation is a uniform curve for "hot" objects (surface of sun, hot tungsten filament, etc.).

    With LEDs (and florescent), the more accurate CRI (90-100 CRI), they use more phosphors to "add to the spectrum" (usually more expensive, rare earth phosphors). The "typical" 6,000+ Kelvin LED bulbs tend to have a very poor CRI but are very efficient (high Lumens per Watt).

    It is not a simple problem:

    http://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/LED_color_mixing.pdf

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭✭
    Well....much has changed since the reign of the fluorescent bulb then.

    I never thought I would live to see the day that people didn't know what gender they were either. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭✭
    It gets pretty mucky once one leaves the fluorescent bulb realm. https://eaglelight.com/led-university-lighting-tutorials/led-color-rendering-index-explained/

    I might get a headache if I looked at this too long. Candles and incandescents have a 100 CRI........with 1700K and 2700K colors. This is .... witchcraft.

    Examples of Color Temperature and CRI

    Light SourceColor TemperatureColor Rendering Index
    Candle1700k100 CRI
    High Pressure Sodium2100k25 CRI
    Incandescent2700k100 CRI
    Tungsten Halogen3200k95 CRI
    Cool White4200k62 CRI
    Clear Metal Halide5500k60 CRI
    Natural Sunlight5000-6000k100 CRI
    Daylight Bulb6400k80 CRI
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mcgivormcgivor Registered Users Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭✭
    @DarkstormNH ;

    Can you let us know what's the purpose of the lighting, if it's outdoor area lighting, perhaps using stand alone self contained solar powered street lights may be a cost effective way to go, prices vary according to quality, wattage and so forth, but the need for wiring, charge controller, centralized battery, inverter and all associated safety devices are done away with. Just some thoughts 
      1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider 150 60 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 8×T105 GC 24V nominal 

  • AnawaAnawa Solar Expert Posts: 207 ✭✭
    I'm with MCG. What are the specific LED fixtures you have in mind? Is the 30w rating the incandescent equivalent or is that the wattage of the LED? You may be able to meet your lighting needs with a simple 12v set-up that does not require inverters, but first, tell us about what your trying to do. 

    FWIW, I'm running 12v MR16 LED "down" lights around three buildings off of fairly inexpensive MPPT charge controllers. They all operate 3 hours after "dusk" and have been for about 8 years or so. The barn has perimeter "wash" lighting from the eave to the ground. And, inside the main bay, there are LED's mounted at the ridge beam that illuminates the floor area below. Understand that I can not read a newspaper in the light, but I can see where I'm walking which was the intent.

    just saying
    Paul  
    Paul 
    in Georgia

    System 1: PV- 410w Evergreen, Mppt- Blue Sky Solar Boost, Batt - 225ah Deka AGM, 12v led house lighting,
    System 2: PV- 215w Kyocera, PWM - Morningstar PS30, Batt- 225ah Deka GC's, 12v led house lighting, Dankoff 12v water pump,
    System 3: PV- 1.5kw Kyocera, Grundfos 11 SQF well pump, 3000 gal above ground water storage, dom water & irrigation,
    System 4: PV- 6.1kw Kyocera, Mppt- Outback FM80-2ea, Inverter- Outback FX3648-2ea, Batt- 804ah GB traction, Grundfos BMQE booster pump 240v, Mitsibushi mini-splits 240v, 18k and 15k
  • DarkstormNHDarkstormNH Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭
    mcgivor said:
    @DarkstormNH ;

    Can you let us know what's the purpose of the lighting, if it's outdoor area lighting, perhaps using stand alone self contained solar powered street lights may be a cost effective way to go, prices vary according to quality, wattage and so forth, but the need for wiring, charge controller, centralized battery, inverter and all associated safety devices are done away with. Just some thoughts 
    Thanks for the reply lights are for outdoor in Haiti were electricity is not consistent, base on all the feedback from this group I'm staring to look at solar outdoor lights dusk to dawn , they need to be bright and able to dim down yet still provide some brightness

    Thanks
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 745 ✭✭✭✭
    There are solar LED night lights that have a full time low level lights and motion sensor activated brighter lights. Is this what you are looking for?

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

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